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  #1741  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 6:43 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Harry, I'm talking about garage parking, not street parking
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  #1742  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 6:53 PM
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^ Harry, I'm talking about garage parking, not street parking
No free garage parking either - NEVER seen that in the downtown area.
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  #1743  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 7:03 PM
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^ Is parking free at the SouthGate Market at Roosevelt/Canal?
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  #1744  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 7:09 PM
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^ Is parking free at the SouthGate Market at Roosevelt/Canal?
Not what us old farts think of as downtown, there was free parking at Belmont|Broadway and at the Jewl at Addison|Broadway. BUT between Chicago| Halsted | Congress ........
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  #1745  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 7:13 PM
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^ One other point I'd like to make--again, this is weak anecdotal crap, but I want to bounce it off you to see what you think.

Currently I own a car here in Queens. I live within a 5 minute walk of the subway. There is a shopping mall about 2 miles away with a huge garage that fits plenty of cars (for a small charge), but it's also near a subway stop. I drove there twice, but now I've decided it will probably be more convenient to just take transit. Plus, I already have a paid for parking space at my job (which is NOT in Manhattan), but I've chosen to take the subway there every day instead.

That's just me, but I'm pretty sure a lot of other people would make such a choice. In Chicago, for example, even with car ownership in place, I can imagine that at least some people living in the WLCO-fied west loop would consider taking a train to North/Clybourn instead of driving if they had a quicker option, such as the Circle Line, no?

In other words, transit is about density, but it's also about selling itself as an alternative to driving. Even when parking is abundant, driving can still be a hassle--traffic congestion, rude drivers, the fear of getting into an accident (especially in a big city), the cost of parking in a garage, etc. We talk about "free parking", but I think that eventually the market will force property owners to charge money to use their garage. I'm betting that the underground garage in the Roosevelt Collection won't be entirely free (although it may be so in the beginning)
You raise some valuable points. Of course, a significant aspect of transit utilization is cultural, which is quickly evident to anyone who has visited any of the Canadian metropolises, which are built similarly to American cities but have much better transit utilization. That culture comes into play when people like you or I will generally default to making a trip by transit, and using a car only when it's really absolutely necessary. But I still feel economics is the driver, in aggregate, in determining mode choice. Even with similar auto ownership rates as the US, Canada has greater taxes on driving, increasing the cost of not only auto ownership, but auto use (through higher gasoline taxes). People can argue all day about what the appropriate tax would be, but most people who've reseached the topic feel that driving is undertaxed in the US, meaning that each marginal auto trip costs the user a perceived amount less than that trip is actually costing the system, thus driving, in aggregate, is overconsumed. We can even express your and my love for transit-use in economic terms, in that we get a certain utility from taking a train or bus as opposed to driving; but of course that's hardly the norm.

What all that mumbo-jumbo means is that transit in the US is at a disadvantage as a mode choice right off the bat. Further, your situation (where there is a very equal mode choice equation between driving and transit for your shopping and work trips, each with pros and cons) is a situation that is much more common in NYC than it is in Chicago. You're right that some people would use the Circle Line for trips to North/Clybourn. But with ample cheap/free parking, the vast majority of trips to North/Clybourn arrive by car (and a majority are coming from the Northside anyhow), unlike the shopping districts of the Loop or Mag Mile, where parking is basically impossible for less than $15-20. And of course, those areas get great transit mode share.

I never bought that the Circle line would be useful as a crosstown route to save travel time, since it involves adding an extra transfer into those trips when you're only a few minutes outside of downtown anyway (assume no slow zones and frequent service). However, the Circle Line could be an incredible project if it not only became a new locus of trip generation (with two-way traffic during both peak periods), but also had regional buy-in, by which I mean the RTA forcing Metra to co-operate: It would provide a distribution system, directly linking up with every Metra Line, to most major downtown destinations.

The current course of events seems to suggest neither of those will happen, so I can't say a project that will only increase the burden on CTA's paltry operating and capital budgets is a good idea. Hopefully the New Starts process could be guided to provide some basic accessibiliy improvements to the existing system: rather than $1-2 billion on a whole new line, add some infill stations in key locations (18th/Cermak Green, United Center, Division/Brown), improve the transfer connections (State/Lake, Jackson/Library, Medical Center?), and improve the bus facilities along Ashland and Western to implement some features of BRT (signal priority, next-bus LED signs, large information boards, landmark/pylons etc.) for the X49 and X9.

Last edited by VivaLFuego; Sep 21, 2007 at 7:23 PM.
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  #1746  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 8:57 PM
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^ Is parking free at the SouthGate Market at Roosevelt/Canal?
At the moment, it is. But gates and kiosks are already in place for them to charge if they wish to. IIRC, Whole Foods' separate lot is not set up for paid parking.

I think shopping is one of the most difficult trips to capture for transit--unless you're going for mostly entertainment and small, high-value purchases. I think that type of shopping has dropped substantially as women have entered the workforce. That, in turn, is responsible for the decline of both downtown department stores and regional indoor malls.
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  #1747  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2007, 9:13 PM
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So basically, the Chicago region has a bloated and underutilized rail infrastructure that's simply waiting for market conditions to kick it back into high gear. From what Viva said, that's kind of how I see it.

Until that, it's rubber and gasoline
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  #1748  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2007, 2:36 AM
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^^ That's not a bad description of the situation.

I love how discussion of everything else devolves into a discussion about transit.

I think more important than any public transit improvement is the funding and construction of the projects outlined in CREATE. This will have lasting and great benefits for the NATIONAL rail system, as well as Metra.

I also think the ONLY way to create a transit culture is through TOD - around EXISTING stations in Chicago. Why is nobody proposing any sort of dense TOD along the Orange Line, or the Blue Line, or the Dan Ryan Red Line?

All of New York's transit goals seem to focus on improving access to Manhattan and travel on Manhattan. DC seems to be the only American city that knows how to integrate an extensive transit system into an auto-centric city. Portland and other cities with growing light-rail systems also have some sense of how to do it properly.
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  #1749  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2007, 10:00 PM
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http://www.insideonline.com/site/epage/53540_162.htm

Hollywood celebrities to use Ravenswood Studio to make films
Paul Dickens


...refurbished for use as a sound, film video, and production studio for a major film company...an undisclosed company which is bankrolling the project, said that the idea is to keep it as low-profile as possible.
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  #1750  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2007, 1:23 AM
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Zipcar Doubles Chicago's Car Sharing Population
Thousands of Chicagoans decide sharing a car beats owning one | 21 Sep 2007 | 05:56 PM ET

CHICAGO, Sep 21, 2007 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Zipcar, Chicago's fastest growing car sharing service, today announced that after one year of operations in the city, it has attracted thousands of members and taken hundreds of cars off the city's streets.

During its first year of operations, 250 Zipcars, comprised of 15 makes and models, were placed in more than 100 city locations. To meet growing demand moving forward, Zipcar today also announced that it plans to double its current fleet of vehicles within the next 12 months, adding vehicles in new and existing neighborhoods.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/20911549/
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  #1751  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2007, 10:59 PM
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Hmm... this is excellent!

More shared cars means less dependency on cars. I'm hoping this leads to a reduction or abolition of the city's parking requirement, at least in dense core neighborhoods.

Of course, I'm not sure I like the "taking cars off the streets" part. Reducing emissions is wonderful, but reducing traffic gives people LESS incentive to take CTA.
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  #1752  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 12:19 AM
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I think that logic is flawed. I really disagree that less traffic=more car use by what would have been transit trips. I wouldn't think that a large proportion of people that don't drive would start because they can zip up Clark faster. I don't have raw numbers or scientific evidence, I just feel in my gut that this would be the case. Less traffic may I mind you, would also mean smoother and faster bus travel, making CTA trips more attractive.
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  #1753  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 3:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Hmm... this is excellent!

More shared cars means less dependency on cars. I'm hoping this leads to a reduction or abolition of the city's parking requirement, at least in dense core neighborhoods.

Of course, I'm not sure I like the "taking cars off the streets" part. Reducing emissions is wonderful, but reducing traffic gives people LESS incentive to take CTA.
Agreed...the 600 foot buffer around transit stations, which only lets you put .75 parking spaces per unit (instead of 1) is a pathetic incentive. All R5 zones, and all lots within 1200 ft (quarter-mile) should have massively reduced parking requirements, perhaps 0.5 per unit. Between 1200 and 2400 ft, and for R4 zones, 0.75 per unit. I really don't get why we need to have street parking in addition to an off-street space for every housing unit. R3 and lower can stay at 1 off-street spot per unit since the population density could never support transit.

^Busy Bee,
Once the travel time/comfort equation is balanced between auto/transit, it will come down to 1) dependency and 2) parking cost. For those with a car, they'll consider transit if they'd have to pay over a certain threshold to park, but otherwise they'll drive the car they've already invested in. The transit-dependent are hooked either way, of course, so less congested streets and smoother bus operations is a gain for them as well. The 'ideal' situation I think are less clogged streets, high downtown parking prices, and peak-pricing on roadways to make those causing the congestion pay for the external costs they are imposing on the rest of the users of the system. The parking and congestion fees would go into a general transportation fund to pay for system improvement that benefit the entire network, e.g. advanced signalling, grade separations, intermodal connections, etc.
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  #1754  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 8:40 AM
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Came across a pretty good "intelligent laymen" discussion of Chicago development below. The word is out!

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/5122.html#more-5122

A large and very cool recent photo of Trump is also included.
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  #1755  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 1:19 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Great find, Jaroslaw. There's a lot of interesting discussion going on in that forum.

One thing that struck me is peoples' fear of what will happen to Chicago in the post-Daley era. I guess I never really thought about that, but perhaps it's a legitimate concern. A really shitty mayor could really screw up the city's wonderful momentum, but (s)he could also focus on areas that Daley has tended to neglect (transit, affordable housing, etc)
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  #1756  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Agreed...the 600 foot buffer around transit stations, which only lets you put .75 parking spaces per unit (instead of 1) is a pathetic incentive. All R5 zones, and all lots within 1200 ft (quarter-mile) should have massively reduced parking requirements, perhaps 0.5 per unit. Between 1200 and 2400 ft, and for R4 zones, 0.75 per unit. I really don't get why we need to have street parking in addition to an off-street space for every housing unit. R3 and lower can stay at 1 off-street spot per unit since the population density could never support transit.
Great post. What car lovers never explain when they demand more parking downtown and in the denser neighborhoods along the lake is how the roads will support all this extra traffic. Isn't it almost unbearable now? Where will all the extra cars go if parking is a 1 to 1 ration? Do we start double decking all our roads downtown or better yet get rid of all the sidewalks so the streets can be wider?
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  #1757  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 4:18 PM
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http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Ma...nston-a-Curve/

Throwing Evanston a Curve
Design for Grand Bend condos exploits a sinuous location alongside Green Bay Road
By Dennis Rodkin

Evanston’s ongoing condo boom rounds a new curve with Grand Bend at Green Bay, a six-story building that parallels the arcing intersection of Green Bay Road and Emerson Street near the suburb’s downtown

...

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  #1758  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 9:20 PM
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does anyone have a rendering of what the new Barneys is suppose to look like??? i haven't seen anything about this anywhere recently
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  #1759  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2007, 10:10 PM
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What car lovers never explain when they demand more parking downtown and in the denser neighborhoods along the lake is how the roads will support all this extra traffic.
Car storage for people who live downtown or in lakefront neighborhoods doesn't mean those people will drive to work or school; in many cases they're deliberately choosing places where they can walk or transit to work. I haven't seen any actual data, but I use my car about once a month, and I think it's pretty common for city dwellers to use their cars only once a week or so.

More problematic is Saturday shopping trips, as anyone who's navigated around the North Side running Saturday errands can attest. That's a really tough trip to capture for transit because it's nonrepetitive, it's chained with other trips, and it involves carrying (and storing in the car) heavy or bulky things.
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  #1760  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2007, 2:46 AM
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Car storage for people who live downtown or in lakefront neighborhoods doesn't mean those people will drive to work or school; in many cases they're deliberately choosing places where they can walk or transit to work. I haven't seen any actual data, but I use my car about once a month, and I think it's pretty common for city dwellers to use their cars only once a week or so.

More problematic is Saturday shopping trips, as anyone who's navigated around the North Side running Saturday errands can attest. That's a really tough trip to capture for transit because it's nonrepetitive, it's chained with other trips, and it involves carrying (and storing in the car) heavy or bulky things.
Car-sharing? Car-rentals? It seems an incredibly inefficient use of resources for so many residents to invest all this money in an asset that required alot of energy to produce and simply sits there depreciating even while not being used (not even counting the carrying costs like insurance and the opportunity cost of having not spent the money elsewhere). I fully understand some trips are horribly inconvenient on transit, but 10-15 trips a year that really require significant storage space scarcely seems to justify universal car ownership. Further, for big-ticket items (appliances, etc.), delivery is an option. In Manhattan, you can buy large appliances at the store on 86th and Lexington and they'll deliver it pretty quickly. Why isn't that considered? Why the marriage to cars for people who make such rare auto trips?
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