Tucson Development Thread

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by kaneui

With its equity partners changing hands, it now looks like there will be some residential in the 75 Broadway project. According to Peach Properties' website, the building is now up to 14 stories with floors 12-14 featuring 80 studio apartments, floors 8-11 for 120k s.f. of commercial office (one less floor than before), with the lower floors of parking and retail/restaurant staying the same.

As a side note, we don't know what the pricing will be for 75 Broadway, RendezVous, The Flin or The Monier, but if they're anything close to what OLIV at Main Gate is asking for their rental units, Tucson will be seeing some big city prices for these urban apartments. OLIV is already pre-leasing, and asking anywhere from $2.60 - 5.15/s.f., ranging from "Murphy" studios to 4BR. (For comparative purposes, The Trademark, a newly opened 7-story apartment complex in downtown LA, is asking about $3.30 - 4.50/s.f., with studios to 3BR.)

I'm guessing Schwabe and Dabdoub want all studios in 75 Broadway in order to maximize income, since small units command the highest rate/s.f. However, it will be interesting to see how quickly units at these higher price points rent out in Tucson, as this type of product is still rather untested here. (With OLIV, a majority of their units have a bathroom for each bedroom, so perhaps they could be converted to student housing if they don't otherwise get rented, which is often more lucrative.)


https://peachprops.com/project/75-broadway/

http://https://olivtucson.com/

http://trademarkdtla.com/

Good find on the new info. What's odd right off the bat is the first rendering is obviously new but doesn't reflect the floor increase.

In terms of rental rates, I'd bet OLIV is higher than what we'll see from any of the projects downtown. I know that they claimed the apartments would be marketed to the general population but their marketing thus far seems geared toward students. We'll see, though.

[InTheBurbs]

Looks like City Park is losing the bowling alley but adding additional office space for Hexagon.

International tech firm Hexagon Mining continues its downtown Tucson expansion

The ground floor will remain retail/restaurant/food court.

One interesting stat - The article quotes McCusker saying that Hexagon has booked more than 3,500 hotel stays in the past year for incoming visitors.

[Eapiwo]

https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-new...V4AM5dOI7VInPc

Kgun has reported some new info about the Bautista Project. Looks like it'll be 5 stories, have 250 units, cost 72 million with the developers asking Rio Nuevo to contribute 2.8 million to get the project underway by the end of this year.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-new...V4AM5dOI7VInPc

Kgun has reported some new info about the Bautista Project. Looks like it'll be 5 stories, have 250 units, cost 72 million with the developers asking Rio Nuevo to contribute 2.8 million to get the project underway by the end of this year.

Screenshot from the video:



16k+ sf of retail space is going to be quite a lot to fill unless they have tenants lined up already.

[Azstar]

16k+ sf of retail space is going to be quite a lot to fill unless they have tenants lined up already.

It seems that local developers are a little out of touch with the realities of the retail marketplace. Demand for bricks and mortar is down everywhere since so many people shop online, but especially weak in Tucson where the population numbers just don't add up. There is a lot of retail space available, and retail space tends to stay vacant for years, if not decades, in downtown Tucson. While the number of workers downtown is slowly increasing, and the number of downtown apartment dwellers will also increase soon, downtown businesses will continue to struggle. I hope I'm wrong.

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by Azstar

It seems that local developers are a little out of touch with the realities of the retail marketplace. Demand for bricks and mortar is down everywhere since so many people shop online, but especially weak in Tucson where the population numbers just don't add up. There is a lot of retail space available, and retail space tends to stay vacant for years, if not decades, in downtown Tucson. While the number of workers downtown is slowly increasing, and the number of downtown apartment dwellers will also increase soon, downtown businesses will continue to struggle. I hope I'm wrong.

There has been talk about a grocery store in that area for a few years now. Something like a Trader Joes, Sprouts or Whole Foods. I dont know how the space is laid out, but 16k sqft would be a good size for those types of grocers

[travreese]

Here are the rumors I've heard about downtown grocers for the past few years. Trader Joe's has no interest expanding in this market and are not very interested in "filling in" existing cities. They would rather expand into new markets. This info is a few years old and I don't know how reliable. My source was someone regionally connected to Trader Joe's. I thought the worst kept secret in Tucson was the Whole Foods at Speedway & Country Club moving to Speedway & Campbell when that development finally happens. Does anyone know if that information is actually true? I've also heard Sprouts was approached because they specifically have a "downtown" Sprouts bodega-style concept and has so far passed.

My info comes from sitting in lots of downtown specific meetings and conversations over the last few years. Who knows if this info adds anything to the conversation here.

I too cannot believe we're still adding retail although I am generally for retail at the bottom of any new construction.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by crzyabe

There has been talk about a grocery store in that area for a few years now. Something like a Trader Joes, Sprouts or Whole Foods. I dont know how the space is laid out, but 16k sqft would be a good size for those types of grocers

This was the only reasonable concept I could think of but, looking at the massing, one large tenant would be split right down the middle. With that said, there's a Ralph's at Liberty Station in San Diego that's broken up between two buildings, but that doesn't seem like an ideal situation.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by travreese

Here are the rumors I've heard about downtown grocers for the past few years. Trader Joe's has no interest expanding in this market and are not very interested in "filling in" existing cities. They would rather expand into new markets. This info is a few years old and I don't know how reliable. My source was someone regionally connected to Trader Joe's. I thought the worst kept secret in Tucson was the Whole Foods at Speedway & Country Club moving to Speedway & Campbell when that development finally happens. Does anyone know if that information is actually true? I've also heard Sprouts was approached because they specifically have a "downtown" Sprouts bodega-style concept and has so far passed.

My info comes from sitting in lots of downtown specific meetings and conversations over the last few years. Who knows if this info adds anything to the conversation here.

I too cannot believe we're still adding retail although I am generally for retail at the bottom of any new construction.

I've heard that about Trader Joe's, too (maybe from the same source), but I feel like a grocery store of some sort will eventually have to see value downtown. As much as we don't need much more retail space, we do have a lot of residential units coming on line, which will eventually require basic services.

[andrewsaturn]

I love Johnny Gibson market and think it is perfect for our downtown. I think if we need a place where people have more options in terms of toiletries, maybe rio nuevo can advocate a resurgence of a downtown Walgreens??

[kmiller5]

Do we know when the two 4th Ave apartment buildings are expected to begin construction? I know flycatcher has been demo'd but haven't heard when construction will start. Also curious about the 14-story building at the South end.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by kmiller5

Do we know when the two 4th Ave apartment buildings are expected to begin construction? I know flycatcher has been demo'd but haven't heard when construction will start. Also curious about the 14-story building at the South end.

Pretty sure they're already pouring the foundation for Union. The OPUS project is still in the design review phase.

EDIt - Found this photo update for Union on 6th from 10/9: http://union.chasse.us/utility-infra...nd-excavation/

[kmiller5]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

Pretty sure they're already pouring the foundation for Union. The OPUS project is still in the design review phase.

EDIt - Found this photo update for Union on 6th from 10/9: http://union.chasse.us/utility-infra...nd-excavation/

Oh, wow. Thanks!

[InTheBurbs]

I was in Tucson this past weekend and got a few shots of downtown and some of the construction going on.

BTW: Stayed at the Marriott at Main Gate. Remodeling is still in progress but it's much improved.

On Approach to TUS. Downtown still has a fairly small footprint, but you can see it starting to merge with Fourth Ave, Main Gate, the University and UMC.



Downtown Sunrise


Tyndall Avenue "Canyon"


Graduate and oLiv from 9th floor of Marriott


[/url]

oLiv from Park Ave


New Student Housing from Park & 2nd Street


Rendezvous Urban Flats (U/C) and One West downtown


MSA Annex. Shipping container development on West Side across from the Caterpillar HQ. Neat concept and nicely done. Lot's of new construction going on around there in the Mercado area as well.





Mural at the Boxyard, the bar/food/entertainment area on Fourth also made out of shipping containers. Nice place to hang out on Friday night. Didn't get any pictures except for the cool mural on the side of the building next door that faces into the Boxyard.

[wildcatmd]

The student housing block seems like it would be a good place for a semi-urban grocery store.

[kaneui]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

Tyndall Avenue "Canyon"

With three more multi-story student housing complexes (Aspire II, Hub IV, Euclid/Speedway) and the Main Gate hotel/apartment tower under construction, this six-block rectangle bordered by Speedway, Park, University and Euclid will be the densest residential area in all of Tucson, if it isn't already.

[andrewsaturn]

Great pics! I love boxyard. Hope you enjoyed your stay. The university and downtown/mercado is dramatically changing before our eyes.

[sheep unite]

This is purely speculative, but I think it relates to Tucson development. I am curious as to your thoughts and opinions on two transportation ideas. I am certainly no expert.
1.) what do you all think about dedicated transit line down busy crosstown streets like Broadway (I know it’s been discussed and shot down), Oracle, Campbell/Tucson to the airport, etc... and expanding streetcar service? On dedicated track lanes this would seem to act more as rail mass transit instead of the small population of students/tourists/downtowners it now serves.
2.) Cars and traffic seem to only be increasing, so I’m curious about your thoughts/knowledge about an integrated centralized smart traffic light system? I really don’t even know if this exists, but it doesn’t sound too outlandish to me. I’m picturing a system that if you are crossing town and going the speed limit you really shouldn’t be having to hit red lights. Obviously turns, hazards, slow drivers, etc would be entropy in the system and cyber security would be very necessary. I can’t imagine the technology doesn’t exist. Like I said I’m not an expert but it seems like Tucson, with its grid street system and lack of freeways, would be a perfect candidate for such a system.
Obviously things like this would cost big money, but the frustration that I feel sitting in my idling car at seemingly every light in town got me thinking... Thanks.

[chenley333]

Originally Posted by sheep unite

This is purely speculative, but I think it relates to Tucson development. I am curious as to your thoughts and opinions on two transportation ideas. I am certainly no expert.
1.) what do you all think about dedicated transit line down busy crosstown streets like Broadway (I know it’s been discussed and shot down), Oracle, Campbell/Tucson to the airport, etc... and expanding streetcar service? On dedicated track lanes this would seem to act more as rail mass transit instead of the small population of students/tourists/downtowners it now serves.
2.) Cars and traffic seem to only be increasing, so I’m curious about your thoughts/knowledge about an integrated centralized smart traffic light system? I really don’t even know if this exists, but it doesn’t sound too outlandish to me. I’m picturing a system that if you are crossing town and going the speed limit you really shouldn’t be having to hit red lights. Obviously turns, hazards, slow drivers, etc would be entropy in the system and cyber security would be very necessary. I can’t imagine the technology doesn’t exist. Like I said I’m not an expert but it seems like Tucson, with its grid street system and lack of freeways, would be a perfect candidate for such a system.
Obviously things like this would cost big money, but the frustration that I feel sitting in my idling car at seemingly every light in town got me thinking... Thanks.

1. Dedicated transit lanes: this should really get more investigation and support among the city leaders. We can't afford to keep the pavement we have in even marginal condition, let alone afford to keep adding lanes (and pay to tear down businesses to make room). We need to maximize the efficiency of the space we already have. Really good quality, frequent transit service along key corridors would help with congestion, bring some economic vitality to tired strip malls, help with air quality, and give people mobility options.

2. In Pima County's and the City of Tucson's presentation to the RTA Citizen Advisory Committee yesterday, they talked about smart signalization as a key strategy for congestion management - something they want funded by the next RTA plan. It's expensive to retrofit so many signals across the city, but much cheaper the widening etc.

[Ted Lyons]

Pretty short Rio Nuevo meeting tomorrow but they'll be discussing the Bautista project as well as Peach's 123 S. Stone project - the one Chris Bianco is attached to. On a maybe related note, Chris Bianco just posted about Rick Joy's new book on his Instagram page. Wonder if there's a connection there or if that was just coincidental.