Saskatoon Roads & Infrastructure

[asdfgh]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

There is no infrastructure buildable to get vehicles OFF roads. Doesn't matter how many bike lanes, bus lanes, rail lines etc you build, the bottom line is people will use there vehicles.

That's just completely false. Yes, people will continue use vehicles, but not all people. Providing good, rapid transit can have a huge impact on how many people drive, same goes with having good cycling and pedestrian infrastructure, especially if the density of residential development is increase right around the transit infrastructure (which is the cities plan with their BRT corridors).

Right now our transit system is not good. It's gotten a bit better in the last few years (and as a result ridership increased significantly - i.e. by ~8% last year), but it's still not great. If it can do as well as it does as is, there is the potential that ridership will significantly increase once the BRT is in place..........and I'm sure it should be obvious, but if not, if/when this occurs, some of those new riders will be people that previously chose to drive.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

There is no infrastructure buildable to get vehicles OFF roads. Doesn't matter how many bike lanes, bus lanes, rail lines etc you build, the bottom line is people will use there vehicles.

You would not "fix" Circle Drive North for $2 Billion. No way are you going to go around, over or under to avoid that stretch for that amount of money.

I disagree. What we do know is when you build more roads, it increases traffic and not the other way around. We have to stop making it so convenient to drive our vehicles.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I disagree. What we do know is when you build more roads, it increases traffic and not the other way around. We have to stop making it so convenient to drive our vehicles.

Key word: So convenient

You don’t want an extreme like Vancouver either.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I disagree. What we do know is when you build more roads, it increases traffic and not the other way around. We have to stop making it so convenient to drive our vehicles.

Do we really need to get into this whole social engineering debate again? A large chunk of the population of Saskatoon and surrounding area live here becuase they like the lifesyle. A big part of that lifestyle is the "vehicle centered" society if you want to call it that. They like their "big" houses and "big" yards, away from downtown and have no interest in taking public transit daily.

If most people currently living here wanted to live in a more urban environment, they would be living in Toronto, or Vancouver. Or even Calgary or Edmonton in some cases. Not to say that there isn't a segment of our population that want a more urbanized livestyle. Those people may be in the majority on this forum, but they certainly aren't the majority of Saskatoon area residents.

Getting back somewhat more on topic - there was a terrible mistake made when Circle Drive North was created as both a retail corridor and an integral part of both the Highway 11 and Highway 16 routes. As I see it, 1) the retail element has to be completely blown out of the area and the roadway upgraded or, 2) the roadway needs to be elevated with a minimum number of direct exits, while maintaining a secondary access network to the retail elements at current ground level. But I can't see either of those things happening at a price tag less than $2B.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Do we really need to get into this whole social engineering debate again? A large chunk of the population of Saskatoon and surrounding area live here becuase they like the lifesyle. A big part of that lifestyle is the "vehicle centered" society if you want to call it that. They like their "big" houses and "big" yards, away from downtown and have no interest in taking public transit daily.

If most people currently living here wanted to live in a more urban environment, they would be living in Toronto, or Vancouver. Or even Calgary or Edmonton in some cases. Not to say that there isn't a segment of our population that want a more urbanized livestyle. Those people may be in the majority on this forum, but they certainly aren't the majority of Saskatoon area residents.

Getting back somewhat more on topic - there was a terrible mistake made when Circle Drive North was created as both a retail corridor and an integral part of both the Highway 11 and Highway 16 routes. As I see it, 1) the retail element has to be completely blown out of the area and the roadway upgraded or, 2) the roadway needs to be elevated with a minimum number of direct exits, while maintaining a secondary access network to the retail elements at current ground level. But I can't see either of those things happening at a price tag less than $2B.

When our province is about to spend $2B, at a time when we are experiencing an increasingly-worse economy, with no end in sight, yes we do.

[The Bess]

The Broadway bridge in Saskatoon was a make work project during the depression .... not to throw gas on the fire just saying.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by The Bess

The Broadway bridge in Saskatoon was a make work project during the depression .... not to throw gas on the fire just saying.

I'm all about make-work projects... that are needed. Hell, I'd say a new Saskatoon arena and convention center are higher priority than more highways to subsidize the logistics industry (which are heavy donors to the Sask Party btw).

[The Bess]

Correct me if I am wrong but i thought the provincial/federal governments didn't fund sporting event structures

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by The Bess

Correct me if I am wrong but i thought the provincial/federal governments didn't fund sporting event structures

The province put $80M into new Mosaic Stadium and loaned the city of Regina an additional $100M for it. They have also funded arenas in Moose Jaw and I believe Estevan in the last 5-10 years. You’re right about the federal government.

[Ricopedra]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Do we really need to get into this whole social engineering debate again? A large chunk of the population of Saskatoon and surrounding area live here becuase they like the lifesyle. A big part of that lifestyle is the "vehicle centered" society if you want to call it that. They like their "big" houses and "big" yards, away from downtown and have no interest in taking public transit daily.

Crisis is right on the button here. I'm one of the biggest proponents of densification due to my experiences abroad and how it makes a better, safer, more exciting cityscape. I would rather not live in a suburb given the choice.

In Saskatoon you've got it good - probably the best in the world, outside of the weather.

But people live here because of the lifestyle they can live and afford, which is far better than in other areas of the world: Big houses, several cars per family; deserved, right? We deserve what we want, and we want to drive everywhere, everyone of us in a single car.

I mean, come on - we're in Saskatchewan. Do you think we're concerned about the environment? You're so funny! Have I met you before at a party?

No. So stop volunteering at my fundraising to save the Amazon Rain Forest.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Crisis is right on the button here. I'm one of the biggest proponents of densification due to my experiences abroad and how it makes a better, safer, more exciting cityscape. I would rather not live in a suburb given the choice.

In Saskatoon you've got it good - probably the best in the world, outside of the weather.

But people live here because of the lifestyle they can live and afford, which is far better than in other areas of the world: Big houses, several cars per family; deserved, right? We deserve what we want, and we want to drive everywhere, everyone of us in a single car.

I mean, come on - we're in Saskatchewan. Do you think we're concerned about the environment? You're so funny! Have I met you before at a party?

No. So stop volunteering at my fundraising to save the Amazon Rain Forest.

No, we do not. We don't live in a libertarian society. We do things that are best for our community and our world. That's why we have laws and regulations. This whole individualistic, selfish mindset that capitalism thrusts upon us benefits the haves more than it benefits the have nots (while more and more of us are being thrown in the latter category) and is exactly why the world is falling apart right now. I don't want my tax dollars paying for pointless infrastructure that won't actually make our communities better. Allowing the Walmart truck to get to Prince Albert 30 minutes faster does not make life better for anyone but the trucking company. In my experience, the new Regina bypass had minimal effects on innercity commute times and I bet the same will be said for Saskatoon. These projects are nothing but handouts to the Sask Party's donors.

[Ricopedra]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

We do things that are best for our community and our world.

This is exactly why you're not invited to my Save the Rainforest Gala. You can't see the forest for the trees. Cheers, and no harm done once you get my meaning.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

This is exactly why you're not invited to my Save the Rainforest Gala. You can't see the forest for the trees. Cheers, and no harm done once you get my meaning.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well in text but I'll take your word for it.

[Ricopedra]

I'm saying we don't deserve what we want, just because we want it.

"We deserve what we want"... was not me saying it, or more importantly, believing it. Does that help?

[Ricopedra]

It's weird, though, and has been studied many times to the teets. You could make every major street in Saskatoon 4 lanes in both directions right now, and within ten years, they'd all be clogged to the gills. The desire of the individual driver is not in the best interest of the community, nor should it be supported. Saskatoon is probably the worst place in the world for me to think I can curtail greed and growth, but it's my hometown, so I've got no choice.

For the amount the city is paying for suburban expansion, they could create a core where no-one needs to drive, a core they used to have but dismantled, which included electric streetcars and buses - up until 20 years ago, or so...

Don't worry. I'm not talking about taking away your cars. But it would be so convenient you wouldn't need them for your daily commute. Now that's cool! You'd think Saskatoon would be up for that, but...now you get to the reality of what's going on in this town. Everybody wants.

[Dalreg]

Your dream utopia doesn't exist and won't exist in Saskatoon in your lifetime. The best you can hope is to move to somewhere like North Korea where car ownership is very low and public transport is the only option....

[Antigonish]

The city really dropped the ball not pushing for LRT vs BRT pretty much like London, ON.

The recent subdivisions built and being built here were done so short-sighted. When Brighton fills in, College and 8th are going to be mega fucked with congestion.

I'd also like to see a DDI on Taylor/Circle, seems like the only place they could pull it off using the existing space/infrastructure.

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Your dream utopia doesn't exist and won't exist in Saskatoon in your lifetime. The best you can hope is to move to somewhere like North Korea where car ownership is very low and public transport is the only option....

Bahahaha, wow

[djforsberg]

People like to think we live in a free, democratic world, but really, its the developers and corporations (i.e. trucking, construction, retailers like Amazon and Walmart, etc) who dictate how our cities (and economy) grow. We live in a world where profits drive everything, while ignoring so many things that humans need that don't involve money, and marketing makes it seem like its what we want. People like to point to authoritarian countries as an example of how bad "socialist" centrally-planned economies fail while also failing to recognize the damage our capitalist centrally-planned, profit-motivated economy has on both the environment and on humans now and into the future. We need a true democracy and I bet if we had one, Regina and Saskatoon would not spend multiple-billions of dollars of our own money on this pavement that will benefit very few of us.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

People like to think we live in a free, democratic world, but really, its the developers and corporations (i.e. trucking, construction, retailers like Amazon and Walmart, etc) who dictate how our cities (and economy) grow. We live in a world where profits drive everything, while ignoring so many things that humans need that don't involve money, and marketing makes it seem like its what we want. People like to point to authoritarian countries as an example of how bad "socialist" centrally-planned economies fail while also failing to recognize the damage our capitalist centrally-planned, profit-motivated economy has on both the environment and on humans now and into the future. We need a true democracy and I bet if we had one, Regina and Saskatoon would not spend multiple-billions of dollars of our own money on this pavement that will benefit very few of us.

No you are right, they would probably spend $10's of Billions instead.