Long term repercussions from Covid-19 what will they be?

[milomilo]

You can also look at it this way; even though a Canadian worker in a clothes shop in Surrey, BC might have vastly better conditions than a sweatshop worker in Bangladesh, that sweatshop still might be better than toiling in the fields for pennies.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by milomilo

If the end result of globalization is every country moving up the value chain and improving their economy enough through trade, such that they start to resemble western countries, what exactly is bad about that? It's a very Trumpian way of viewing the world to think that it's better that both us and the exporting country are poorer, so long as we are less poor.

And if it's cheaper in the long run to use Canadian goods because they are better? Fine, procure those goods. Nothing stopping anyone doing that and if they are not then it is incompetence on their part.

No need to toss in the Trump insult.

Sometimes the drive for the bottom line hurts everyone. The company that produces good high quality widgets and pays their workers a decent working wage are better for everyone than the outfit that drives for maximizing profits and wonders why their workers are leaving in droves or the quality of their widgets are going down.

I've watched numerous times (oh let see, the LRT in Ottawa) where going cheaper has cost us more in the long run.

[Franco401]

The comparisons to after 9/11 are idiotic. America in the 2000s was a paranoid, nativist nightmare. People were drawn together, but only as a unified front for cruelty towards muslims, starting wars based on no information but anger, and reelecting Bush. People were so blinded by rage that they failed to understand why terrorism happens and little has been accomplished aside from revenge in the form of hundreds of thousands dead.

There is no silver lining to this. People are acting like scared animals the same way they did back then.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Franco401

The comparisons to after 9/11 are idiotic. America in the 2000s was a paranoid, nativist nightmare. People were drawn together, but only as a unified front for cruelty towards muslims, starting wars based on no information but anger, and reelecting Bush. People were so blinded by rage that they failed to understand why terrorism happens and little has been accomplished aside from revenge in the form of hundreds of thousands dead.

There is no silver lining to this. People are acting like scared animals the same way they did back then.

Sounds like the Vancouver housing market. People are so blinded by rage that they fail to understand whats behind housing prices and little has been accomplished besides revenge in the form of more taxes which has hurt a segment of our economy and lowered our overall tax revenues.

But yeah people are generally very simple and will jump at easy targets.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

No need to toss in the Trump insult.

Sometimes the drive for the bottom line hurts everyone. The company that produces good high quality widgets and pays their workers a decent working wage are better for everyone than the outfit that drives for maximizing profits and wonders why their workers are leaving in droves or the quality of their widgets are going down.

I've watched numerous times (oh let see, the LRT in Ottawa) where going cheaper has cost us more in the long run.

Sorry for the Trump comment but this has been something he has enabled. Lots of people are now decrying the perceived problems of globalization without seeing the wide benefits. Part of the reason for that is the losses can be concentrated and highly visible (a factory closing down) whereas the benefits are diffuse (cheaper goods), and perhaps not even in this country. While I believe we are all richer for globalization, we may be going through a growing phase where there are vast differences in the wealth of countries. As those countries level up, eventually there will be fewer sources of ultra cheap labour and those at the very bottom get to benefit.

As for going cheaper costing more - for every example of that we can find, we can probably cite an example of a "buy Canadian" (well, Bombardier) procurement that ends up costing more too.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Sorry for the Trump comment but this has been something he has enabled. Lots of people are now decrying the perceived problems of globalization without seeing the wide benefits. Part of the reason for that is the losses can be concentrated and highly visible (a factory closing down) whereas the benefits are diffuse (cheaper goods), and perhaps not even in this country. While I believe we are all richer for globalization, we may be going through a growing phase where there are vast differences in the wealth of countries. As those countries level up, eventually there will be fewer sources of ultra cheap labour and those at the very bottom get to benefit.

As for going cheaper costing more - for every example of that we can find, we can probably cite an example of a "buy Canadian" (well, Bombardier) procurement that ends up costing more too.

Apology accepted.

I think my issue with rampant globalization is that we as a nation have tossed out the baby with the bathwater and have let some critical industries completely disappear.
Anyway, hopefully after we come out of this latest crisis I hope the after action report delves into the supply chain and its pinch points.

[dennis]

I think in a few months we will see:
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave.
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

I can’t help it. The kids are bonkers about the Ghostbusters.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by dennis

I think in a few months we will see:
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave.
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

I can’t help it. The kids are bonkers about the Ghostbusters.

I only know when the zombies come you need to fling vinyl albums. or is that double tap.

[GreaterMontréal]

The economy would grow a lot faster if people would not have to put 60% of their salaries into paying their mortgage or their rent.

[misher]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The economy would grow a lot faster if people would not have to put 60% of their salaries into paying their mortgage or their rent.

Lucky they don't "have" to do that.

Back in 2017 when everyone was complaining about rent I was renting a decent 1 bedroom apartment in Marpole for $900/month which was ~30% of my salary. Meanwhile my friend was asking me to borrow cash while renting a brand new 1bed in Yaletown for $1600/month.

In any city in Canada you have choices and aren't forced to spend more than $1000 on rent.

Just looked it up and rent in Marpole is still cheap. $800 basement suite with your own entrance.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...094324017.html

And $1100 for your own apartment in Vancouver

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...090285898.html

Anyone complaining that its 60% is exaggerating or really bad with money. Rents in Vancouver are no where near home prices.

People have been complaining about affordability for decades. Its just a repeat of the exact same thing. Home prices in Van are much higher but rents have not followed unless your an egotistic person who has to live in a brand new place downtown.

And yes I find my friends spending crazy amounts of money on living downtown then complaining about how much it is. No one is willing to save or choose a cheaper option.

[rrskylar]

500K Canadians file for EI this week!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by misher

Lucky they don't "have" to do that.

Back in 2017 when everyone was complaining about rent I was renting a decent 1 bedroom apartment in Marpole for $900/month which was ~30% of my salary. Meanwhile my friend was asking me to borrow cash while renting a brand new 1bed in Yaletown for $1600/month.

In any city in Canada you have choices and aren't forced to spend more than $1000 on rent.

Just looked it up and rent in Marpole is still cheap. $800 basement suite with your own entrance.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...094324017.html

And $1100 for your own apartment in Vancouver

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...090285898.html

Anyone complaining that its 60% is exaggerating or really bad with money. Rents in Vancouver are no where near home prices.

People have been complaining about affordability for decades. Its just a repeat of the exact same thing. Home prices in Van are much higher but rents have not followed unless your an egotistic person who has to live in a brand new place downtown.

And yes I find my friends spending crazy amounts of money on living downtown then complaining about how much it is. No one is willing to save or choose a cheaper option.

But you said you lived downtown....

Originally Posted by misher

Technically I'm in downtown Vancouver now!
....

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...0&postcount=85

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But you said you lived downtown....




http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...0&postcount=85

"now".

And I'm near Davie which has cheaper rent.

[dennis]

.

[ssiguy]

Internationally, I think there will be a lot of somber second thought about globalization and the true risks and benefits associated with it.

As far a geo-political realities, this is going to hurt China a lot. China is already a country with a bad reputation worldwide and justly so but in much of the developing world this was tempered by the fact that the distaste of the West is palpable and China was building large infrastructure in countries that desperately needed it. They all knew that the infrastructure money came with political strings attached but were, at least begrudgingly, willing to accept them.

Now, that has radically changed as this will ALWAYS be the "Chinese disease" and the distrust of China is quickly morphing into a very real hatred. This virus has galvanized world public opinion about the distrust and antipathy people have towards China. This could very much bring China's openly aggressive political and economical agenda and aspirations to a complete halt.

[itom 987]

China needs to get their sanitization standards up, I was disgusted to see grimy walls everywhere, they never clean their walls. Public bathrooms that people have to pay and supply their own toilet paper are never cleaned. Their farmers markets look like something out of the Texas Chainsaw massacre. I know that my experiences are from 2005 but I don't think much improvements has happened since then.

[itom 987]

Also, the high-rise office tower might end up being a thing of the past given how much work is being done at home now.

[softee]

Originally Posted by itom 987

Also, the high-rise office tower might end up being a thing of the past given how much work is being done at home now.

So people will work for large companies with hundreds or thousands of co-workers that they will never meet or get to know -- no social niceties among co-workers, no birthdays cakes, no office parties and holiday get togethers, no hanging out after work and getting drinks with your work pals, no working together to solve problems or brainstorm ideas, a complete and utter elimination of any and all social aspects of the office environment? No sense of belonging and connection to an actual workplace that you can see with your own eyes? No thanks.

[casper]

Originally Posted by itom 987

China needs to get their sanitization standards up, I was disgusted to see grimy walls everywhere, they never clean their walls. Public bathrooms that people have to pay and supply their own toilet paper are never cleaned. Their farmers markets look like something out of the Texas Chainsaw massacre. I know that my experiences are from 2005 but I don't think much improvements has happened since then.

It is easy to point to China and talk about "sanitation" standards being lower. The reality is public health standards are different. Yes, we are generally better off with our standards but there are a few area they do better. I will give you one example:

Was at Save-On-Foods yesterday and picking up a roast chicken looking over the counter you see people putting chickens into the tray not wearing face masks. Not unique to that retailer, we are talking all retailers. It is very uncommon to see food services workers wearing masks in Canada. They do wear hair nets. In China and most of Asia most people doing that type of activity would be wearing a mask.

[itom 987]

^ Those same countries have fish and meat markets where product is laid down on the ground and/or on dirty tables with no ice.