DENVER | Transportation Thread

[TakeFive]

Since we're on the topic of light rail projects I'd thought I'd check in on Portland's planning for MAX LRT expansion along the SW Corridor. I want to keep track of this for comparison purposes as many consider Portland a good peer city to Denver.

They're still in the EIS stage but getting closer to making decisions towards holding a vote in 2020, starting construction in 2021. This line will be 12 miles long and initial cost estimates are around $2.8 billion or $230 million per mile. In essence they will build 12 miles of light rail for a little less than half of RTD's costs for 78 miles of light AND commuter rail.

[TakeFive]

CORRECTIONS and updates

I just recalculated the FasTracks projects and they (will) add up to 78.1 miles of new light and commuter rail. While final costs are still pending the expectation was for a cost of ~$5.8 billion. That breaks out to a cost of a little over $74 million per mile. This includes all-in costs for expansion/updating of the light rail maintenance facility and the new commuter rail maintenance facility plus the whiz-bang new security tech, etc. It does not include costs for the Flatiron Flyer or DUS.

If you include the SE Corridor line which cost a little over $46 million per mile you get blended cost of $69 million per mile. Adding in those 19 miles along with SW corridor's 8.7 miles adds up to 105.8 miles of light and commuter rail. Just commuter rail miles would be 53.2 miles (which comes amazingly close to half the total miles).

The Fastracks breakouts:

• W Line - 12.1 miles
• R Line - 10.5 miles
• A Line - 22.8 miles
• G Line - 11.2 miles
• B Line - 6.2 miles
• N Line - 13 miles
• SE Extension - 2.3 miles

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, it's not like I'm against doing that.

Additionally, Colorado will hopefully vote on (and pass) a .62 percent statewide sales tax increase for transportation, 40% of which will be distributed locally. I haven't yet heard the $'s involved for Denver but I'll assume they'll have money to add to the Colfax BRT project along with money for more bike lanes and sidewalks which seems to be the priority of the Denver Streetsblog crowd.

Assuming that passes, take a couple of years to let that sort out and then 2020 could become a good time for a metrowide funding initiative focused on more RTD transit and multimodal solutions. More funding for RTD is needed to do the heavy lifting for additional LRT lines (for Broadway, Cherry Creek and possibly Colorado Blvd). Nobody's throwing in the towel.

I would campaign for that like crazy, even though I live in Aurora. Denver needs more light rail within the city - Cherry Creek is so close to downtown, yet due to the lack of a light rail connection, it feels so far away. 2020 sounds nice, I am ready to give RTD more money any time they ask for it (especially in the light of the breakdowns on their costs that you did, they are using the money extremely efficiently).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

The $54b goes out decades, as do the projects it will fund, most of which is a ways out. I suspect the difference is much less on a year-by-year basis.

Regarding price, we have to create our corridors from scratch, often through hills or over water. The new additions will be almost universally grade-separated. So it'll cost a lot. In a dense area, costs start rising geometrically as new methods and longer schedules are needed to solve the various logistical challenges and ensure safety while keeping things open.

BTW, thanks; it's always useful to hear the challenges and get more clarity to better understand.

My understanding is that there is no sunset provision in ST3 except for the completion of all designated projects. Plus, they can continue to collect whatever is necessary for (proper) maintenance and operating expenses once the projects are completed. Does that sound about right?

Originally Posted by mishko27

I would campaign for that like crazy, even though I live in Aurora. Denver needs more light rail within the city - Cherry Creek is so close to downtown, yet due to the lack of a light rail connection, it feels so far away. 2020 sounds nice, I am ready to give RTD more money any time they ask for it (especially in the light of the breakdowns on their costs that you did, they are using the money extremely efficiently).

Maybe next week I'll get back to giving my impressions of the LRT system from my trip. Hint: I was somewhat surprised the amount of light rail to A Line traffic at the Peoria Station - on a Sunday. I met and had a fun conversation with an Indian couple (mom and son) who lived in Aurora; he's got an architectural background but was offered a tech job in LoHi (IIRC) and they were checking on the A line into DUS versus driving to work.

[TakeFive]

From the Library of Congress recordings
Woody Guthrie/Dust Bowl Ballads (1935)

I've sung this song, but I'll sing it again
Of the people I've met and the places I've been
Some of the troubles that bothered my mind
And a lot of good people that I've left behind, singing

So long, it's been good to know ya
So long, it's been good to know ya
So long, it's been good to know ya
What a long time since I've been home
And I've gotta be driftin' along




Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite

https://denverite.com/2018/07/25/ala...d-july-august/

The bridge was originally constructed by the Denver Tramway company when trolleys dominated the Denver landscape. According to Heather Burke-Bellile, a spokesperson for DPW, they are tearing down the unused bridge in an effort to rehabilitate that section of the Alameda underpass to make it more pedestrian- and cyclist-friendly.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

This smells fishy. Nobody even remotely competent enough to have a job planning a streetcar line would make a mistake like that. This project was way too far along, and had passed way too many reviews. That would be the most monumental engineering mistake since... I dunno, Galloping Girtie maybe. This seems more like a case of a mayor who's decided to bad talk the project, and is playing loose with the truth to do so.

You might, ironically and sadly, have been right although I wouldn't go so far as to compare it with "Galloping Girtie" - although that was pretty funny. Or is it much ado 'bout nothin'?

http://mynorthwest.com/1060088/seatt...oo-big-update/

The city has since hired auditor KPMG to assess the construction project. The final report from KPMG is expected in August, but initial findings state that the new Seattle streetcars...

What a clustermess!!

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, it's not like I'm against doing that.

Additionally, Colorado will hopefully vote on (and pass) a .62 percent statewide sales tax increase for transportation, 40% of which will be distributed locally. I haven't yet heard the $'s involved for Denver but I'll assume they'll have money to add to the Colfax BRT project along with money for more bike lanes and sidewalks which seems to be the priority of the Denver Streetsblog crowd.

Assuming that passes, take a couple of years to let that sort out and then 2020 could become a good time for a metrowide funding initiative focused on more RTD transit and multimodal solutions. More funding for RTD is needed to do the heavy lifting for additional LRT lines (for Broadway, Cherry Creek and possibly Colorado Blvd). Nobody's throwing in the towel.

Any new transit funding for RTD will be used to finish the remainder of Fastracks - CRE, North, SW, NW, and Central capacity improvements. There are no plans for additional rail projects beyond that. RTD's focus is FT and Regional BRT.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Any new transit funding for RTD will be used to finish the remainder of Fastracks - CRE, North, SW, NW, and Central capacity improvements. There are no plans for additional rail projects beyond that. RTD's focus is FT and Regional BRT.

Good clarification. Any revenue generated by the FasTracks four-tenths percent sales tax has to be spent on Fastracks-designated projects. I'll assume this includes the under consideration (and current study) of BRT-style service between Boulder and Longmont.

Any money collected from the previously existing six-tenths percent sales tax is primarily for operating and maintenance expenses of everything but I'll assume it could be used for capital investments if they somehow had gobs of excess revenue.

What I had proposed and what SnyderBock proposed was for a whole new set of transit project priorities that would require a new voter approved initiative sometime in the future (2020?). I had proposed new money totalling $8.75 billion for RTD while SnyderBock Proposed RTD getting $15 billion so I like his number much better.

I'm sure that SnyderBock would agree that if RTD received 'new' money between $10-$15 billion that maybe (at least) $1.5 billion should go towards FasTracks projects. I'm not sure we need rail all the way up to Boulder and I'd wait to see how the N Line performs and whether Highlands Ranch even cares about the SW extension... maybe they'd prefer a nice BRT route along University Blvd and/or Highlands Ranch Pkwy?

[TakeFive]

Time to put a Wrap on Seattle

Just released
Federal Way Link cost estimate to increase by $460.3 million (pfft, not even half a $bilion)
July 26, 2018 By Peter Johnson/Seattle Transit Blog

Sound Transit staff will inform the agency’s board today that the Federal Way Link extension’s official cost estimate will increase from $2.088 billion to $2.549 billion. The notice comes a year after the agency announced similar budgeting problems for the Lynnwood Link extension.

The Federal Way Link intending to start construction next year will add 7.8 miles to the south. There will be only 3 new stations. The new cost estimate equals $327 million per mile. They do anticipate value engineering to create some savings.

ST3 which passed in 2016, included 62 miles for 5 new LRT lines to serve the outlying suburbs. Many are actually extensions, in some cases long extensions, to the original Seattle light rail line (plus the completed 1st extension under ST2).

In any case these suburb to city lines are much like RTD's and reportedly run along highway rights-of-way although they also had to acquire significant ROW and as mhays pointed out there's a whole lot of grade separation. Also like RTD Fastracks there will be lots of Park N Ride capacity.

To be fair to Seattle their booming economy is a big part of the cost escalation and it would seem they also underestimated the cost to begin with by quite a lot. As to their costs, nobody explains it better than:

Originally Posted by mhays

Regarding price, we have to create our corridors from scratch, often through hills or over water. The new additions will be almost universally grade-separated. So it'll cost a lot. In a dense area, costs start rising geometrically as new methods and longer schedules are needed to solve the various logistical challenges and ensure safety while keeping things open.

Putting a Wrap on It
The Yuge advantage with Fastracks was timing. It will be a lot easier to deal with rising costs with respect to creating BRT and enhanced bus service which will run in existing (road) ROW. The value of having all of the DUS improvements which led to the current DUS neighborhood and 6 light and commuter rail lines are invaluable. Thank God that much is behind us.

[TakeFive]

I Know, Don't Mess with Texas

Decided it was time to look at some peer cities in the SW in Austin and Dallas. There's good reasons pro and con for each but for now...

A Quick Overview

I read DART's (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) annual ridership report from January and thought a couple of things were worth noting: http://www.dart.org/about/board/boar...pridership.pdf

Most peer bus systems are also experiencing declines

National Bus Trends - Change 2016-2017

• Phoenix........ + 6.6%
• Houston........ -1.5%
• Salt Lake...... -2.1%
• Pittsburgh..... -2.1%
• Minneapolis... -2.8%
• Portland........ -2.9%
• San Diego..... -4.5%
• DART............ -4.7%
• St Louis......... -7.0%
• Denver.......... -8.6%
• Charlotte....... -9.9%

National Light Rail Trends - Changes 2016-2017

• Minneapolis 3.7%
• Phoenix 2.0%
• DART 0.9%
• Denver 0.2%
• Houston -1.1%
• Pittsburgh -1.5%
• Charlotte -1.5%
• Portland -2.6%
• Salt Lake -2.8%
• San Diego -3.6%
• St Louis -6.5%

We had Hot Takes about bus ridership last year... but about those awful bus ridership trends for Denver RTD...

[InfillJunkie]

Originally Posted by mhays

Seattle's system isn't that admirable. It's much more disjointed than RTD. We have one system for regional rail and bus transit (longer routes) called Sound Transit that does well. Local service is county-based. After state-level a tax revolt long ago, the counties each tried to replace its revenue via its county's voters, with varying success over the years. King County (the big one) failed to pass a measure, so the City of Seattle ran its own measure which restored/expanded service within the city limits but didn't cover the other 1.4 million people in the county. The local agencies still run regional buses into Seattle to augment Sound Transit's service. That's before you get to the ferry systems.

Operationally it's also complicated. For starters, Sound Transit runs in downtown tunnels operated by King County Metro and Burlington Northern. The latter is why we have miniscule commuter rail service to the north. A similar issue on ground-level tracks means the south is hampered as well. Denver also has a lot more in terms of existing rail corridors, a huge factor in its far larger mileage of light rail etc. at much lower cost.

I tried to take the bus to downtown for work. There's literally a bus stop like 2 blocks from my townhome in Mill Creek. But, with how disjointed the bus service is here, it wouldv'e taken 2 transfers and over an hour and 30 to get to work. If I wanted to park at one of the park and rides, I would've had to get there at like 6 in the AM or all the parking is gone (I know poor me and my dumb car). And why does everything stop at Northgate Mall: express lanes and the commuter rail? The ferry's are cool though. I seriously won't miss the traffic here.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Since we're on the topic of light rail projects I'd thought I'd check in on Portland's planning for MAX LRT expansion along the SW Corridor. I want to keep track of this for comparison purposes as many consider Portland a good peer city to Denver.

They're still in the EIS stage but getting closer to making decisions towards holding a vote in 2020, starting construction in 2021. This line will be 12 miles long and initial cost estimates are around $2.8 billion or $230 million per mile. In essence they will build 12 miles of light rail for a little less than half of RTD's costs for 78 miles of light AND commuter rail.

Timing is everything! So much of Denver's infrastructure spending over the past 30 years - from the Airport, to Convention Center, TREX, to Fast Tracks, has come during times of economic slow down and lower costs. Maybe we were good, maybe we were lucky. But thankful for that, either way. There's lots to complain about on Colorado infrastructure (rightfully so), but some of our best and most respected infrastructure we've really gotten on the cheap. Imagine 78 miles of light and commuter rail at those prices ($18 billion!).

[Denvergotback]

Looks as if the central 70 project is starting this week

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

Looks as if the central 70 project is starting this week

Already started. Stuck in traffic as they close the shoulders as I write this.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Timing is everything! So much of Denver's infrastructure spending over the past 30 years - from the Airport, to Convention Center, TREX, to Fast Tracks, has come during times of economic slow down and lower costs.

The ball park; don't forget Coors Field.

It was a combo of good luck and in some cases smart politicking to fight the doldrums at the time.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Already started. Stuck in traffic as they close the shoulders as I write this.

Meanwhile leave it to the 'Ditch the Ditch' crowd to stir up the natives in fighting 24/7 ability to build. Kiewit was seeking essentially the same noise variance as was used for T-REX but those who still resent the expansion have 'sold' nearby residents of unfair disruption. Given it's political silly season, Council President Albus Brooks facing a contested race feels the need to support the neighborhoods. Truth be told if not for the sore losers, most would much prefer the project be finished sooner rather than later.

[TakeFive]

Some things are easier to agree with...

“BRT creep” makes bus rapid transit inferior to rail
March 9, 2011 By Dan Malouff (Editorial Director)/GGW

Generally speaking the main reason...to build BRT instead of rail is to...make it less expensive. Once you’ve adopted that view... — that cutting corners to save money is OK — it’s too easy to keep going and cut a lot of other corners as well...

Still, as long as planners think of BRT as a cheap replacement for rail, then the US will be very unlikely to ever produce BRT that is actually rail-like...

Obviously you can't afford to build light rail everywhere and BRT - depending on the amount of 'Creep' - can be much better than ordinary buses on many key corridors.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Sure, the TOD will help Denver over the long haul, but it's not like you wouldn't get gobs of TOD on Colfax, Broadway, and Cherry Creek lines too.

Originally Posted by mishko27

Denver needs more light rail within the city - Cherry Creek is so close to downtown, yet due to the lack of a light rail connection, it feels so far away.

East Colfax is better suited for BRT-style service (IMO) due to its more 'local' nature. While it will have fewer stops than the current 15 route it will still have more stops than desirable for light rail.

But We Three Do Agree
that light rail should run along So Broadway (to the I-25 Station) and then along Cherry Creek Drive/Leetsdale Drive.

[TakeFive]

Denver is not Alone

Metro Transit cuts bus service to improve reliability amid driver shortage
AUGUST 1, 2018 By Tim Harlow and Janet Moore Star Tribune

Metro Transit officials facing a worsening driver shortage abruptly cut bus service Tuesday in a move to stabilize service across the Twin Cities — for now.

[TakeFive]

More Trains Join G Line Testing
August 2, 2018

ARVADA, Colo. (CBS4) – More trains will be running along the new G Line route. At least six trains are joining the fleet for more test runs.

Photo credit CBS4

The station for Old Town Arvada has a fence around it with signs saying the station will open soon.

[TakeFive]

Do We Have Shovels?
Yes, really BIG shovels
Did any Ditch the Ditch peeps help celebrate?
Oh yes, dressed in bright blue Tees and their signs


Photo credit: DENVER (CBS4)

Officials Break Ground On $1.2B Central 70 Project In Denver
August 3, 2018 at 12:54 pm