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  #821  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 7:51 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
Mr Ryerson isn't a villain; he's just a product of a time and way of thinking that we no longer uphold.
Sure, and that's why there's no statue of him (AFAIK) in the public realm.

Similarly, I'd be a lot more okay with removing the statue of Governor Leland Stanford that's on the capitol's front lawn in Sacramento on the grounds that the guy was an animal eater, than I would be with removing the statue that's at the Palo Alto campus for that same reason.
     
     
  #822  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 7:51 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I'm sure you don't actually need to ask that, but just in case, cultural genocide is, as we all know, stuff like the inability to order a 7up on an Air Canada flight and all the rest of these things.
I’m pretty sure he was clarifying that you actually do understand what cultural genocide is, but only seem to care about how it applies to you.
     
     
  #823  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I have no problem with a statue getting "retired" if it is no longer felt representative or relevant - just so long as it is not a mob which is making this decision. Mobs are inherently violent and undemocratic.
Exactly! Totally agree

On a related note, I'd be curious to dig up what Anglo-Canada thought of attacking statues of Sir John A back when it was only those pesky separatists doing it ...
     
     
  #824  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:02 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Cultures are always being genocided. Canada has genocided its own culture as it was before today, and America has culturally genocided the whole world. Sure we can celebrate the aesthetic parts of indigenous culture, but what important aspects of pre-European contact indigenous life would be useful today? Living off the land in tents with tribal leadership is a culture that is gone forever, if that's genocide fine but the word loses its shock value.
     
     
  #825  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:12 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Around my house, it is always Sept-haut
Ok, appreciated, but if you think that should let you weasel out of a fat Reparations Check from your taxpaying family to mine, think again
     
     
  #826  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:13 PM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
but what important aspects of pre-European contact indigenous life would be useful today?
Not to draw any parallels here but most of the Native people I know mostly just value the concept of self-determination (even if it's "within Canada"), want to be able to learn their own languages more easily, and want their culture and history to be respected and reflected in the public sphere rather than erased from it and torn away from them. It's not always about living in tents and hunting extinct animals.

(plus a bunch of treaty-specific stuff but that's not really the same thing)
     
     
  #827  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:22 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
I’m pretty sure he was clarifying that you actually do understand what cultural genocide is, but only seem to care about how it applies to you.
It's the other way around, I'm kind of generally okay with cultural genocide (which is often perpetrated with good intentions, BTW) for the reasons just explained by milomilo; whether it's being perpetrated against me or against other whiners does not change how I feel about it.
     
     
  #828  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:34 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
^ Are you serious? "How??" That's a ridiculously easy question. My people (and Acajack's) were totally genocided by the Anglos. Some aspects of the cultural genocide are even still going on to this day. No need to look hard for reasons to be a victim at all.
Then why not start a separate thread to discuss this issue? Sounds like there should be lots to talk about.
     
     
  #829  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 8:42 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's the other way around, I'm kind of generally okay with cultural genocide (which is often perpetrated with good intentions, BTW) for the reasons just explained by milomilo; whether it's being perpetrated against me or against other whiners does not change how I feel about it.
It’s probably easier or safer not to care.
     
     
  #830  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2021, 10:07 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I'm sure you don't actually need to ask that, but just in case, cultural genocide is, as we all know, stuff like the inability to order a 7up on an Air Canada flight and all the rest of these things.
Uh, what?
     
     
  #831  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 12:57 AM
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Pembina forms Indigenous alliance in battle for Trans Mountain pipeline
Pembina announced its interest in Trans Mountain even as it's engaged in another takeover battle
Bloomberg News
Robert Tuttle


https://financialpost.com/commoditie...anada-pipeline
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  #832  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 1:04 AM
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My family and I, along with thousands of citizens of London, marched in this parade, which took place tonight, tracing the route from the attack site to the Mall where the perpetrator was arrested, and then, to London Mosque, just a few hundred metres farther down the road.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...arch-1.6063280


cbc
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  #833  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 1:07 AM
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And of course there is this disgusting horrible shit:

OPP investigates TikTok video mocking family with references to the London, Ont., attack


Quote:
In the video, while a family walks along the sidewalk, a man is heard saying, "Where's Nathaniel Veltman when you need him?"

As a truck passes, the person says, "Buddy, you missed them. Back up." The video ends with the person laughing.
Fucking horrible scumbag.
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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."-President Lyndon B. Johnson Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's idea of a smart man. Am I an Asseau?
     
     
  #834  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 1:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
tragic. I had to sit my kids down one night, and tell them about that very serious issue and the horrors that it entailed. My daughter started sobbing when he heard that the flight attendant had the temerity to answer Michel Thibodeau's request for a 7-up in English. My son felt that the $12K compensation received by Mr Thibodeau was grossly inadequate: "He should have got 100 times more, at least!".

Around my house, it is always Sept-haut
The 7 Up example is an absurd one, but if the mantra from now on is going to be that what anyone recollects as their experiences and how they felt about them is 100% valid (and often binding on society), with anyone outside the in-group told to STFU, this will undoubtedly lead to some unintended and perhaps undesirable ramifications going forward.

As I've said before, I don't see why under this mantra that anglophones should have *any* say in the situation of French, and what should or should not be done to protect it.

And yet every day on Twitter there are 10,000 messages from non-francophone Canadians giving their opinion (and you know what it tends to be) about *my* language. That they generally don't even speak a word of.
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  #835  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Not to draw any parallels here but most of the Native people I know mostly just value the concept of self-determination (even if it's "within Canada"), want to be able to learn their own languages more easily, and want their culture and history to be respected and reflected in the public sphere rather than erased from it and torn away from them. It's not always about living in tents and hunting extinct animals.

(plus a bunch of treaty-specific stuff but that's not really the same thing)
Exactly.
     
     
  #836  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 5:02 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Why do indigenous peoples commit illegal acts while demanding reconciliation at the same time? How do the illegal acts make reconciliation easier? Not that I believe that given the current expectations, that reconciliation will ever be possible because for at least some, it amounts to undoing 400 years of history. Ideas such as "Cancel Canada Day" and even "Cancel Canada" will not foster reconciliation in the long-term. Reconciliation by its definition needs to be a meeting of minds, respectfulness and resolution of injustices in the present.
     
     
  #837  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Why do indigenous peoples commit illegal acts while demanding reconciliation at the same time? How do the illegal acts make reconciliation easier? Not that I believe that given the current expectations, that reconciliation will ever be possible because for at least some, it amounts to undoing 400 years of history. Ideas such as "Cancel Canada Day" and even "Cancel Canada" will not foster reconciliation in the long-term. Reconciliation by its definition needs to be a meeting of minds, respectfulness and resolution of injustices in the present.
If we are talking about vandalism and tearing down of statues, only a very small fraction of these protestors appear to be Indigenous.
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  #838  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 11:58 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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The GofC has earmarked $27.1M for the search of residential school grounds. The Six Nations of the Grand have asked for $10M for the search at the Mohawk Institute. No idea how either side arrived at their numbers. There were 146 residential schools in Canada. One senses a problem ...
     
     
  #839  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 12:01 PM
jamincan jamincan is offline
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How much area are they searching and with what techniques? GPR isn't exactly an expensive survey to have done.
     
     
  #840  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2021, 2:20 PM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As I've said before, I don't see why under this mantra that anglophones should have *any* say in the situation of French, and what should or should not be done to protect it.

And yet every day on Twitter there are 10,000 messages from non-francophone Canadians giving their opinion (and you know what it tends to be) about *my* language. That they generally don't even speak a word of.
Fortunately for Francophones in this country, they dominated population-wise in a certain portion of the country and were able to retain (albeit imperfectly for much of their history) much of their culture on their own terms. They even had a say at the top leadership levels of the country for much of its history (see: Wilfrid Laurier, Louis St-Laurent, etc.)

Even the British - not exactly the most delicate of masters - had to yield some concessions.

Indeed, Quebec now determines its own fate, mostly. To the point of having the option of telling the rest of the country to go pound sand, as they nearly did in 1995.

The Indigenous peoples of Canada were far too thinly spread and dissociated to mount anywhere near as effective as a campaign for their rights. So, of course, the government ran roughshod over them.

The degree of cultural genocide matters.

Aside: Do brand names count for translation purposes? I seem to recall 'Canadian Tire' stores in Quebec, not "Pneu Canadien".
     
     
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