[Stoney Creek] 310 Frances Ave | ? | 44fl, 37fl, 34fl | Approved

[ChildishGavino]

"You can't ignore us now!!"

~Stoney Creek, probably

[StEC]

No height limit no density limit and land use already approved WOW!!!! As epic as this bit of news is it's really depressing to think this is exactly the type of developments that should be common place in our downtown but by some extremely rare stroke of luck or mistake lol it will end up in the suburbs.

Man those people in that area that were so pissed about a possible 14 story building at that little plaza there are literally going to lose their minds over this haha!

[urban_planner]

They should call these "Thorne Towers"

[LRTfan]

is anyone aware of New Horizon owning a plot of land downtown? One can't help but wonder if they'd be interested in working out a 'zoning swap' and get approval for these tallest towers downtown and build something sub-20/30 floors on this Stoney Creek parcel instead?

The city is backed into a corner here due to the already approved zoning. Nice to see for once.

[WhipperSnapper]

I saw this in the Canadian Section. You guys rock!

What a stupid spot for 1800 units in a trio of uglies. This doesn't propel Hamilton forward no matter how tall they are. It sets it back. That's 1800 units that could be sold in urban Hamilton's gentrifying neighbourhoods and not some autocentric failure next to a waterpark. I hope this isn't a serious, financially backed, proposal and/or it doesn't sell.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I saw this in the Canadian Section. You guys rock!

What a stupid spot for 1800 units in a trio of uglies. This doesn't propel Hamilton forward no matter how tall they are. It sets it back. That's 1800 units that could be sold in urban Hamilton's gentrifying neighbourhoods and not some autocentric failure next to a waterpark. I hope this isn't a serious, financially backed, proposal and/or it doesn't sell.

Hamilton has insane regulations regarding height and density downtown - something this size would never get approved by the City so the developer found a loop. Hopefully this will trigger a discussion to reevaluate the downtown restrictions.

And hopefully it gets built out of pure spite

[StEC]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Hamilton has insane regulations regarding height and density downtown - something this size would never get approved by the City so the developer found a loop. Hopefully this will trigger a discussion to reevaluate the downtown restrictions.

And hopefully it gets built out of pure spite

THIS!

Originally Posted by LRTfan

is anyone aware of New Horizon owning a plot of land downtown? One can't help but wonder if they'd be interested in working out a 'zoning swap' and get approval for these tallest towers downtown and build something sub-20/30 floors on this Stoney Creek parcel instead?

The city is backed into a corner here due to the already approved zoning. Nice to see for once.

LRTfan that is a very interesting idea and one I and I'm sure many here would 100% back very vocally if even there was the remotest possibility! This density downtown where we already have the infrastructure in place to support it makes perfect sense if the city were willing to cut a deal.

It makes ZERO sense to put this development in the current proposed spot but like Hawrylyshyn said I hope it get's built simply out of spite if it can't happen downtown!

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Hamilton has insane regulations regarding height and density downtown - something this size would never get approved by the City so the developer found a loop. Hopefully this will trigger a discussion to reevaluate the downtown restrictions.

And hopefully it gets built out of pure spite

Someone mentioned 30 storey height limit downtown. I don't know the area coverage and how quickly it tails off from there however, 30 storeys is a nice tall height regardless if there are 100 storey towers in Toronto and 75 storey towers in Mississauga. Height is awesome on first impression but, that impression disappears quickly. Forumers that make height central to SSP life are always looking for taller and taller because there's nothing to it. What else is there to say once your home crosses the 60 storeys threshold except to start dreaming of a 70 storey tower.

It's tall but, this is pure garbage. Why would you want it downtown or built where it is out of spite? It's 1800 units that will compete with downtown. You're just shooting yourselves in the foot if you care about the continued revitalization of downtown.

60 storeys comes with additional costs. Hamilton's success rest with being a cheaper alternative for young professional to actually afford to live and enjoy their communities over being driven completely by investors both large and small, local and international. Careful what you wish for when you start weighing height as a symbol of status and more than a passing impression to visitors. It takes great design and careful planning to leave a lasting impression.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Trust me, I'm well aware that height isn't everything but if you live here you'd know how insane they are - there is an 11 story condo proposed right beside a train station that got denied for being "too dense". Another proposal had 31 and 34 floor towers (in the downtown), was going to be all low-income housing which is desperately needed here - gets denied.

Ya ideally this wouldn't get built here.. but it is funny

[SteelTown]

Seems like Hamilton is getting those hi-rise craze you see in Toronto's suburbs next to a major highway. There's a few popping up from Grimsby to Stoney Creek and now it looks like the trend is about to explode.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by LRTfan

is anyone aware of New Horizon owning a plot of land downtown? One can't help but wonder if they'd be interested in working out a 'zoning swap' and get approval for these tallest towers downtown and build something sub-20/30 floors on this Stoney Creek parcel instead?

The city is backed into a corner here due to the already approved zoning. Nice to see for once.

I know DeSantis, which I won't be surprised is part of this project, owns the parking lot on James St N and King William, that everyone seems to be dying for a decent mid-rise to be built.

[King&James]

Given the crazy amount of regulation on development in Hamilton, I am shoked that this type of zoning actually exists .... one has to wonder where else it might be. I too hope this gets built , just to make the point - also not like there are no high density towers around , with little to no amenity or retail infrastructure.

The City should be encouraging this type of density and/or zoing at key LRT stops and adjacencies to Go Lines and transit terminals (wouldn't that be killer at mid block King/Main/James/MacNab)

[LRTfan]

I'm sure most of us would agree that this kind of use is far better suited to downtown. But as others have mentioned, I hope it gets built just to show everyone that the world won't end if we allow buildings taller than the escarpment. We need the pop growth in a bad way.
It's crazy reading that zoning document and hearing the city talk about minimum densities....we must have still been ambitious back then and not run over by NIMBYs. These days all the talk is 'maximum' densities, and paltry ones at that.

[lachlanholmes]

I've written a bit about this, and have some more info on unit numbers, construction, and parking...

Read our updated story here.

[atnor]

Any info on starting price?

[King&James]

If they could keep the 1 bedroom units at 200-225 for something in the 650 sq ft range, I think they could sell a ton of units, based on 1000+ units (of the 1 bedrooms), then the whole project could rapidly see life. Looks like there is enough parking for all the units (will need them with I believe no public transit). Excited to see this one come together .

[king10]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Someone mentioned 30 storey height limit downtown. I don't know the area coverage and how quickly it tails off from there however, 30 storeys is a nice tall height regardless if there are 100 storey towers in Toronto and 75 storey towers in Mississauga. Height is awesome on first impression but, that impression disappears quickly. Forumers that make height central to SSP life are always looking for taller and taller because there's nothing to it. What else is there to say once your home crosses the 60 storeys threshold except to start dreaming of a 70 storey tower.

It's tall but, this is pure garbage. Why would you want it downtown or built where it is out of spite? It's 1800 units that will compete with downtown. You're just shooting yourselves in the foot if you care about the continued revitalization of downtown.

60 storeys comes with additional costs. Hamilton's success rest with being a cheaper alternative for young professional to actually afford to live and enjoy their communities over being driven completely by investors both large and small, local and international. Careful what you wish for when you start weighing height as a symbol of status and more than a passing impression to visitors. It takes great design and careful planning to leave a lasting impression.

Great post. Couldn’t agree more.

[king10]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I know DeSantis, which I won't be surprised is part of this project, owns the parking lot on James St N and King William, that everyone seems to be dying for a decent mid-rise to be built.

A. Desantis owns that parking lot downtown which is a different company to the Desantis out of Green rd. The two brothers dont do business with each other.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Someone mentioned 30 storey height limit downtown. I don't know the area coverage and how quickly it tails off from there however, 30 storeys is a nice tall height regardless if there are 100 storey towers in Toronto and 75 storey towers in Mississauga. Height is awesome on first impression but, that impression disappears quickly. Forumers that make height central to SSP life are always looking for taller and taller because there's nothing to it. What else is there to say once your home crosses the 60 storeys threshold except to start dreaming of a 70 storey tower.

It's tall but, this is pure garbage. Why would you want it downtown or built where it is out of spite? It's 1800 units that will compete with downtown. You're just shooting yourselves in the foot if you care about the continued revitalization of downtown.

60 storeys comes with additional costs. Hamilton's success rest with being a cheaper alternative for young professional to actually afford to live and enjoy their communities over being driven completely by investors both large and small, local and international. Careful what you wish for when you start weighing height as a symbol of status and more than a passing impression to visitors. It takes great design and careful planning to leave a lasting impression.

I don't think that this will have any retarding effect on the revitalization of downtown. As has been pointed out, you couldn't build this downtown even if you wanted to thanks to, but it is far enough away that it is basically a different market.

[king10]

If this gets built there needs to be transit service extended along the north service road. Driving a car cant be the only way in and out. The area is already becoming overly congested with traffic especially during rush hour. I dont believe it can handle 2400 units with no HSR service.