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  #621  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2021, 1:02 AM
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https://www.newsday.com/amp/long-isl...ion-1.50208892

Penn Station expansion moving forward with $1.3B in new state budget





By Alfonso A. Castillo
April 9, 2021


Quote:
A $1.3 billion cash infusion in the new state budget will kick-start a massive renovation and expansion of Penn Station, despite growing concerns over plans to knock down and replace several buildings around the LIRR’s Manhattan hub.

The budget agreement reached earlier this week between Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and the State Legislature includes the first wave of funding for the development of the new Empire Station Complex, which aims to rebuild the existing Penn Station and expand it by razing the block south of the facility. The facility will add up to nine new tracks underneath it.

"The fully renovated Penn Station … will comprise a widened and completely reconstructed 33rd Street LIRR concourse and an expanded and completely transformed station," Cuomo’s office said in a statement earlier this week.

The broader development plan, proposed by Cuomo in January 2020, aims to erect 10 new skyscrapers around the station — the tallest reaching up to 1,300 feet — that would be used for office and retail space, hotels, and potentially apartments. Revenue generated by the new buildings — including potential payments in lieu of taxes and air development rights — would be used to help finance transportation infrastructure improvements underground.
Quote:
As a minor compromise between Cuomo and lawmakers, the final language in the budget bill specifies that the earmarked $1.3 billion must be used for the expansion of Penn and related transportation improvements "and not for above-grade development contemplated in the general project plan."

Project officials said the money was always intended to go toward the Penn Station work, including by funding early engineering and design work. But, they said, it also could be used to buy the properties underneath, where the new tracks would be built.

.... The renovated and expanded Penn Station is projected for completion by 2028, ahead of the completion of Amtrak's proposed new "Gateway" rail tunnel across the Hudson River. The aboveground property developments could take until 2038 to complete.

A big DUH on what the budget funding is for. People get an idea, and run with it.
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  #622  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2021, 3:04 AM
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Does anyone know if Penn Station expansion imperils the Stewart Hotel? Losing this beauty would be sacrilege.

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  #623  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2021, 3:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Does anyone know if Penn Station expansion imperils the Stewart Hotel? Losing this beauty would be sacrilege.


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  #624  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2021, 1:01 PM
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Is One Penn Plaza gonna be demolished?
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  #625  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2021, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by newyorker View Post
Is One Penn Plaza gonna be demolished?
With the renovation and such, nope. The surroinding areas will see new towers but One Penn Plaza will stay.
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  #626  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2021, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by newyorker View Post
Is One Penn Plaza gonna be demolished?
1 and 2 Penn are getting makeovers.



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  #627  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 12:06 AM
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https://www.amny.com/news/empire-sta...c-leader-says/

Empire Station Complex a net gain for Midtown Manhattan, civic leader says





By Mark Hallum
April 11, 2021


Quote:
The Empire Station Complex is not completely unwelcome among leaders in Midtown Manhattan as Dan Biederman, President, 34th Street Partnership, says there are net positives to the redevelopment plan.

After opponents to the state proposal to expand Penn Station to the south and greenlight space for up to ten skyscrapers gathered on Seventh Avenue on April 7, Biederman believes the plan will help factors that lead to crime-ridden corners and eliminate outdated structures.

“[Eighth Avenue and 34th Street is] really a bad corner for us where we keep everything clean, we remove litter, we remove graffiti, we have a beautiful streetscape, we run Harold and Greeley Square Parks, but we also try to keep the crime rate down which it was for many years and it’s been a real challenge since two bad things: bail reform, and COVID,” Biederman said. “So we actually want development of some of those empty sites and it sounded like the community boards, the newly formed group to fight the plan, and others are totally against that. But my main point is, if there’s anywhere in the metropolitan area to put bulk, it’s on top of Penn Station. We have incredible rail infrastructure that’s being improved.
Quote:
One problem opponents to the Empire Station Complex hope to see resolved is the exclusion of the public and city elected officials to weigh in and have some control over the trajectory of the development. Whether or not this will be on the agenda for Empire State Development which is leading the effort has been promised but not expanded upon.

“To date, ESD has held more than 50 meetings with local elected officials and other community stakeholders, including a virtual public meeting attended by 200 people last July. We’ve incorporated public feedback into the project at every step — like adding residential alternatives for three of the development sites — and will continue to do so as the process progresses,” Matt Gordon, a spokesman from Empire State Development, told amNewYork.

“By definition, State projects* follow a different process than others, but the community’s voice is no less important. In fact, ESD just postponed a public hearing at community leaders’ request to allow more time for public engagement in the draft plans, and we will continue to work collaboratively with the community to ensure we put the best plan forward.”
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  #628  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2021, 8:59 PM
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Looks like the meeting has been postponed. Got an email:


You are receiving this email because you registered for the Empire Station Complex public hearing scheduled for May 12, 2021. Please note that the hearing has been postponed, and a new date has not yet been set. Once a new date is determined, the public hearing will be noticed in advance, and you will receive a notification of the new date and additional instructions for participating, if any. Note that Zoom only permits a cancellation notification (not postponement), which you will receive following this email. Please feel free to contact empirestation@esd.ny.gov or (212) 803-2477 with any questions. Thank you for your continued interest in the Project.

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  #629  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 12:08 AM
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Huh wonder what happened.

With the loss of 175's 500 meter status I wonder what the odds of seeing one here are.
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  #630  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Huh wonder what happened.

With the loss of 175's 500 meter status I wonder what the odds of seeing one here are.

Nothing happened, the politicians have been pushing for a slow down of the process.
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  #631  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 1:36 PM
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https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...towering-folly

New York deserves better than Andrew Cuomo’s towering folly
The state governor seems determined to give the city’s famous skyline a lumpy revamp


Sun 18 Apr 2021
Rowan Moore


Quote:
..... what better way to prove that he is definitely not a phallocratic bully than to “ram through”, as one outlet puts it, a super-tall tower called Penn 15, and a vast development around it?

It’s not just that its name reads like the personalised licence plate of an inadequate and not-literate male. It is also that this lumpy object will compete on the New York city skyline with the nearby Empire State Building – Penn 15 would be bulkier than its famous neighbour and almost as tall. It is part of the Penn District, a proposed “campus” that will rip up several city blocks and replace them with what, on the available evidence, looks like further big lumps swathed in bland and generic design.
Quote:
The plan’s attraction is that it would help pay to rebuild the loathed and labyrinthine Penn Station, which is at its centre. It’s a common enough idea, to cross-subsidise public benefits with commercial profits, but one in which the former can become a hostage to the latter. “If you stop this tower,” tends to be the message, “something terrible might happen to the public transport/affordable housing/public space that you want so much.” But opponents of the scheme should hold their nerve. Their city deserves better than this.
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  #632  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 2:16 AM
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I'd be curious what alternative these opponents have.
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  #633  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:56 PM
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I'd be curious what alternative these opponents have.
They’re alternative is to leave it as is, and debate what should happen with Penn Station for another 50 years.
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  #634  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 11:12 PM
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Why is it either or? Why not demand better from Cuomo? I'm sorry, but this is a critical area of development. What gets built here just can't be unbuilt with all the money and resources it will require. If that's not a popular view in these parts, then so be it. I'm for development, significant in fact, for this area. I'm hardly a NIMBY. But too often growth and development have been a total top down experience and its unintended consequences have caused serious civic disruption. I expect more from just get with the program, especially if the program is damned faulty in its premise, scope and execution to begin with.
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  #635  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
Why is it either or? Why not demand better from Cuomo? I'm sorry, but this is a critical area of development. What gets built here just can't be unbuilt with all the money and resources it will require.
The governor doesn't get to design the buildings that go up in the area (of which, we really haven't seen much). What this process does will be the same thing it did with the Midtown East rezoning and the Hudson Yards rezoning - provide the framework for development. What ultimately gets built comes beyond that.

This area has existed the way it has for decades - without any serious effort being made by many of the people who now criticize this development to do anything to make it better. The time for talk and debate is over. It is now a time for action - that's how things get done. And again, it's why we see a large new business district rising in a neighborhood of railyards, warehouses, and parking lots. And it's why we see new office construction in a neighborhood where most of the office buildings are beyone 50 years old. Without action, there is NO action.
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  #636  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 11:37 PM
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Video Link


Starting at 2:10:00

And a good link..
https://new.mta.info/system_moderniz...reconstruction

Last edited by JSsocal; Apr 22, 2021 at 12:08 AM.
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  #637  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:19 AM
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https://new.mta.info/system_moderniz...reconstruction

Quote:
Two-Level Alternative

The first approach would transform Penn Station by leveraging the existing configuration's two-level boarding configuration while improving existing Penn's layout, creating a central atrium, and repurposing some of Amtrak's space for NJ Transit's commuters and operations. This alternative can be combined with a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue and the light-filled West Train Hall in the space currently occupied by Madison Square Garden's 5,600-seat Hulu Theater by purchasing the theater from MSG...

Single-Level Alternative

This approach transforms Penn Station into an open, single-level concourse, eliminating all low ceiling heights and simplifying entry and exit routes from trains and the street level while also creating new large circulation areas bigger than the Great Hall of Grand Central Terminal. This alternative would remove 40 percent of the upper level so that all the public concourses could be two or three stories high, resulting in a more open, airy space throughout the station with better sightlines and more direct access to both tracks and platforms, and to station entrances/exits.

It would also feature a spacious, light-filled mid-block Train Hall with prominent new entrances on 33rd and 31st Streets near Seventh Avenue. The hall would bring in natural light with a new multi-story atrium built in the former taxiway between Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza, which has been closed for security since Sept. 11, 2001. This alternative moves MSG loading off 33rd Street, allowing 33rd Street to become a pedestrian-oriented shared street - greatly improving the streetscape.

The single-level alternative could also be combined with a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue and the light-filled West Train Hall in the space currently occupied by Madison Square Garden's 5,600-seat Hulu Theater by purchasing the theater from MSG.
Quote:
Next Steps

The transformation of the existing Penn Station represents the latest milestone in the Governor's 2020 State of the State proposal to create the new Empire Station Complex. On December 30, Governor Cuomo announced the long-awaited grand opening of the Moynihan Train Hall, the first step in realizing that vision.

Following the Biden Administration's roll-out of the American Jobs Plan, Governor Cuomo, the MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit will continue to work with the New York Congressional delegation and other state and federal partners to secure funding for the Gateway Program and the related Penn Station reconstruction and expansion projects.

With the infrastructure push, NOW is the time to get on it.

Concept images...



LIRR 33rd Street Concourse – opening early 2023





Two-Level Alternative - Central Atrium looking west from Lower Level





Two-Level Alternative - Central Atrium looking east from Upper Level




Two-Level Alternative - New Eighth Avenue Entrance looking east (could also be used with the Single-Level Alternative)





Two-Level Alternative – looking down into the New West Train Hall from 31st Street entrance (could also be used with the Single-Level Alternative)





Single-Level Alternative - Mid-Block Train Hall looking south on Lower Level





Single-Level Alternative – Mid-Block Train Hall looking south from Street Level entrance on 33rd Street





Single-Level Alternative – Mid-Block Train Hall looking south from Lower Level near 33rd Street





Single-Level Alternative – New 33rd Street Entrance at Streel Level looking west





33rd Street looking east from Eighth Avenue – Shared Street – pedestrians have priority (could be used with either alternative)


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  #638  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:32 AM
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https://nypost.com/2021/04/21/new-im...tion-makeover/

Quote:
The renderings show two possible paths for the renovation of Penn Station — neither of which would require moving Madison Square Garden, MTA exec Janno Lieber told Wednesday’s monthly board meeting.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings.

The other “two-level” alternative would keep more of the upper level in place, but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area.

On 33rd Street, MTA and city officials want to move MSG’s loading zones to create an expansive pedestrian plaza with a majestic entrance as its centerpiece, Lieber said.
Quote:
A third Penn Station concept presented on Wednesday could take over the space facing 8th Avenue currently occupied by the Hulu Theater, which is part of Madison Square Garden.

But Lieber said untangling the theater’s utilities from the arena would cost an additional $1 billion or more, and fail to slim crowds on 7th Avenue.

“We have, I would say de-emphasized this, at least in the MTA view, as a priority,” he said. “The 7th Avenue side is where the people are, and where we need to prioritize.”


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  #639  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 4:30 PM
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But the pandemic! But the pandemic!

It gets so exhausting trying to reason with people. Just about all of these skyscrapers won't be built for another decade. But let's keep talking about the pandemic.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/n...sultPosition=1

To Save Penn Station, New York Wants to Build 10 Skyscrapers
The state says revenue from the new towers can finance the rebuilding of the rail terminal. But the pandemic has upended the need for office space.



By Matthew Haag and Luis Ferré-Sadurní
May 5, 2021


Quote:
For years, one of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s top priorities has been an enormous development in the heart of Manhattan that would be among the largest real estate projects ever built in the United States.

Ten new buildings — five taller than 1,000 feet — would rise around Pennsylvania Station and form a towering business district stretching west toward Hudson Yards, the biggest private development in the country, and east to the Empire State Building.

At the center, the universally disliked rail station — North America’s busiest train hub — would be brought into the modern age with a sleek, expanded redesign and additional tracks and platforms. Before the coronavirus pandemic the transit hub served 600,000 daily riders on subways, commuter lines and Amtrak trains that crisscross beneath Madison Square Garden.
Quote:
“Do we need 10 more supertalls in the surrounding area of Penn Station?” asked State Senator Liz Krueger, a Manhattan Democrat. “Will there be demand for it?”

Mr. Cuomo argues that a global capital like New York needs a world-class transit hub and an ambitious development — “The next great investment,” he said in February — to transform a dowdy slice of Manhattan into a sleek commercial corridor. It would also achieve the dreams of many business leaders who have long sought to build big around the city’s most important transit nexus.

The state intends to pay for the rebuilding of Penn Station, which would cost an estimated $16 billion, through the development of the new towers, whose owners would contribute part of the revenue from office leases, retail sales and other sources. But generating the needed money could be difficult if office buildings become less desirable.

Critics also argue that the project would mainly reward one of New York’s most powerful real estate firms, whose chief executive and family have contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to the governor’s campaign.
Quote:
Now what had seemed like a foregone deal that would have allowed the state to circumvent city control and oversight is facing serious scrutiny.

The brewing conflict came to a head during eleventh hour state budget negotiations in Albany. On one side, Mr. Cuomo’s aides stressed that the project was his highest priority, making clear he would not tolerate any effort by the Legislature to remove his request for $1.3 billion. The funds would be used to buy dozens of properties, including low- and mid-rise office buildings, residences, shops and restaurants for the development.

In the end lawmakers celebrated what they saw as a victory: The $1.3 billion was restricted to transportation improvements at Penn Station though it may be somewhat symbolic since the state said it still had the power to clear land for the project.

The state also buckled to critics and agreed to an outside review by an array of stakeholders, including the city, local community boards, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak, to look at the best ways to pay for a new rail terminal.

While the review’s findings would not be binding, they could complicate and delay the process and even lead to legal challenges.
Quote:
The state said it still had the authority to purchase properties — and take them by eminent domain, if necessary — near the rail terminal, including a campus of Touro College and a 150-year-old Roman Catholic church that would have to be bulldozed to make room underground for nine new rail tracks and five platforms.

Under the state’s proposal, the 10 towers would include offices, stores and two hotels, with a portion of the revenues generated by those buildings paying down the billions of dollars in bonds needed for the rail terminal.

“There is no better place for a transit-oriented development in the entire New York City region than around Penn Station,” said Brian Fritsch, a manager at the Regional Plan Association, an influential planning group.
Quote:
At 19.6 million square feet, the project would be larger than Hudson Yards, which has more than 18 million square feet. An overhauled Penn Station would have a total of 30 train tracks and eventually link to new rail tunnels under the Hudson River, vastly improving access to Manhattan for suburban commuters.

“Where in the world is there a better place to put real estate bulk than right on top of the hub that’s the busiest in the country,” said Dan Biederman, the president of the 34th Street Partnership, a business-improvement district around the rail terminal. “This is exactly what we should be doing.”
Quote:
While the Cuomo administration believes the development could be a cornerstone of the city’s post-pandemic recovery, it imagines a New York in which people will revert to the ways they worked and lived before the coronavirus.

Nearly three quarters of the new towers would be office space. However, there is more office space available for lease in Manhattan than at any point in at least three decades, and the market value of the city’s office buildings has plunged an estimated 25 percent over the past year.

State officials said the development was a bet on a robust economic recovery and that it made sense to build office towers within walking distance of Penn Station.
Quote:
As proposed by Mr. Cuomo, the state would wield tremendous authority to override city rules on zoning and planning, which developers would have been subject to if they had proposed the buildings without the state’s involvement.

Unlike Hudson Yards, which was built atop rail tracks in a mostly undeveloped zone, the area around Penn Station is not empty, though it is sparsely populated — roughly 210 people live on blocks that would be bulldozed, the state said.
Quote:
The area south of the station is less appealing, dominated by large parking garages, but does include the Church of St. John the Baptist, a French Gothic church where the first Mass was held in 1840.

A spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York, Joseph Zwilling, said the church had “very general discussions” with the state and that “no decisions have yet been made.”

Perhaps the biggest winner in the project would be Vornado Realty Trust, one of the city’s largest office developers, which owns four sites in the development zone and part of a fifth.
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  #640  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 8:04 PM
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Certainly in 10 years, many things could change and the current project could undergo some changes. In my opinion, perhaps it would be better to reduce the number of towers from 10 to 6.

For example, Vornado could forgo building towers at sites 4 and 5 to focus on sites 6, 7 and 8.

On site 2, however, a single large tower could be built look like to the Hudson Spire and with 4 million square feet. In this way the church could also be preserved.

In addition, a 1,300 ft mixed-use tower could be built on site 3.
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