Via rail

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

I’m fully aware that I owe my employment to the government’s commitment to subsidise intercity transportation, but as a taxpayer, I also fully understand the necessity to ensure an efficient use of taxpayer money. Given that buses are much cheaper to operate at low passenger loads than trains, I prefer the government to offer road rather than rail transportation on intercity routes where neither can operate profitably...

Oh I agree, I just disagree with the notion (not necessarily forwarded by you) that because private companies cannot profit off of intercity buses, then no bus service should be provided at all. We will never get any higher order transit with that attitude.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Oh I agree, I just disagree with the notion (not necessarily forwarded by you) that because private companies cannot profit off of intercity buses, then no bus service should be provided at all. We will never get any higher order transit with that attitude.

I absolutely agree: the federal government should have temporarily subsidised the Greyhound network and then progressively tendered it out under PSO (public service obligation) contracts. Greyhound leaving the market would have been a golden opportunity to coordinate bus services with local transit and intercity rail transportation...

[Ottawaresident]

This spineless government of ours could not have possibly done that.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

I absolutely agree: the federal government should have temporarily subsidised the Greyhound network and then progressively tendered it out under PSO (public service obligation) contracts. Greyhound leaving the market would have been a golden opportunity to coordinate bus services with local transit and intercity rail transportation...

Indeed.

Does Canada have any sort of integrated ticketing? Who runs it? That would be a neccesary tool, although I believe you can get through tickets from GO to VIA. Right now, it doesn't really matter because there is no train or bus service for the most part, but being able to book a multi - mode journey with one ticket and confidence it would be valid even if there was delay would be a major selling point.

[headhorse]

do people know that air travel is massively subsidized? guaranteed that trains would be a lot more popular if people realized how much we're actually paying to have planes fly us around everywhere

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by headhorse

do people know that air travel is massively subsidized? guaranteed that trains would be a lot more popular if people realized how much we're actually paying to have planes fly us around everywhere

What aspects of air travel are subsidized in Canada? Airports, air traffic control are all paid for by fees on passengers.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What aspects of air travel are subsidized in Canada? Airports, air traffic control are all paid for by fees on passengers.

Fuel.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Fuel.

Airlines get a fuel subsidy from the Government?

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Airlines get a fuel subsidy from the Government?

The fuel used by aviation is taxed lower (if at all) than the fuel used by road and rail vehicles...

[milomilo]

To be fair though, the protectionism the airlines enjoy cancels out any savings the consumer might get from cheaper fuel. Subsidized or not, the airlines in Europe are much cheaper yet their rail networks still thrive.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by milomilo

To be fair though, the protectionism the airlines enjoy cancels out any savings the consumer might get from cheaper fuel. Subsidized or not, the airlines in Europe are much cheaper yet their rail networks still thrive.

Aren't airlines in Europe declining? Exception Ryanair.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by milomilo

To be fair though, the protectionism the airlines enjoy cancels out any savings the consumer might get from cheaper fuel. Subsidized or not, the airlines in Europe are much cheaper yet their rail networks still thrive.

Yet, it’s a preferential tax treatment the aviation industry enjoys and brings them an unfair advantage over other modes...

[milomilo]

They are definitely given unfair advantage, but if those advantages result only in larger profits for the airlines rather than low prices for the user, how does that inhibit competition from rail?

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by headhorse

do people know that air travel is massively subsidized? guaranteed that trains would be a lot more popular if people realized how much we're actually paying to have planes fly us around everywhere

Pretty shitty subsidy then. Airfares in Canada are the biggest ripoff outside of mobile data. I'm always booking last-minute cheapies to Milan, London, Berlin – it's glorious. I'm flying around up there for like $200 rt to anywhere. Tried to do the same from Montreal to Toronto last summer and wound up taking fucking Megabus. Porter wanted nearly $500 one way!

Really feels a certain way eating a Subway in the Kingston bus parking lot with a circle of ex-cons smoking darts.

Feels pretty far from the Privium Lounge at Schipol.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by milomilo

They are definitely given unfair advantage, but if those advantages result only in larger profits for the airlines rather than low prices for the user, how does that inhibit competition from rail?

The scale of these profits affects decisions like which routes to serve and at which frequencies. Unfair subsidies therefore increase the competitiveness of one mode at the expense of other competing modes serving the same market...

[milomilo]

Given how expensive it is to fly here though, shouldn't it be easier for a train to compete cost wise, than in Europe where flying is dirt cheap? I suppose though if a cheap rail route was added, the airlines could easily absorb the cost of discounting that particular route and kill the rail demand...

Subsidies or not, the airline protectionism should be abolished ASAP. And fix the carbon taxes on aircraft fuel.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Pretty shitty subsidy then. Airfares in Canada are the biggest ripoff outside of mobile data. I'm always booking last-minute cheapies to Milan, London, Berlin – it's glorious. I'm flying around up there for like $200 rt to anywhere. Tried to do the same from Montreal to Toronto last summer and wound up taking fucking Megabus. Porter wanted nearly $500 one way!

Really feels a certain way eating a Subway in the Kingston bus parking lot with a circle of ex-cons smoking darts.

Feels pretty far from the Privium Lounge at Schipol.

Shitty subsidy indeed. Similar to the dairy industry or telecoms, the subsidy doesn't benefit the consumer, the industry as a whole or the country but only a select few businesses. Scrap them all.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

The fuel used by aviation is taxed lower (if at all) than the fuel used by road and rail vehicles...

That doesn’t sound like “massively subsidized” and railroads also get discounted fuel taxes.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That doesn’t sound like “massively subsidized” and railroads also get discounted fuel taxes.

You asked the following question and I believe I provided a valid response, but feel free to prove me wrong:

Originally Posted by acottawa

What aspects of air travel are subsidized in Canada? Airports, air traffic control are all paid for by fees on passengers.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

You asked the following question and I believe I provided a valid response, but feel free to prove me wrong:

I agree that you provided a valid response, but I was responding to a comment that said air travel was “massively subsidized”. If the only “subsidy” is a slightly lower fuel tax, which trains also receive, then it isn’t really a massive subsidy.