HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 4:39 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
The big city propers are pretty blue, but Dallas and Houston suburbia is still pretty damn red compared to most of the other largest MSAs in the nation.

In 2020, if the Dallas and Houston MSAs had been as blue overall as say the Detroit and Minneapolis MSAs, then Texas goes blue in a landslide.
Some of our suburbs have become less red, or even blue, over time. Plano, a wealthy suburb of Dallas, was largely blue in 2020, as was Fort Bend County near Houston. Parts of Cypress have become less red, notably the Bridgeland area, where my nephew lives. Some Austin suburbs that were previously solid red have become blue. I don't have much hope for places like The Woodlands, though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 4:47 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
I think it used to be you could tolerate the stupid politics and blah landscape(in the regions where most people live) and cities because of the affordable cost of housing, lots of good jobs, relaxed vibe, etc. Now all the major cities that drive the economy have escalating home prices, all the old school cool stuff and day trip spots are overcrowded and gentrified, etc.

Those old trade-offs don't really apply anymore.

Also maybe it's just me but I get the sense there a general malaise now caused by runaway inequality and decay of traditionally middle class places.



Not sure that's going to happen. Texas is attracting transplants who are drawn by the politics here. We are absorbing all the right-wing Orange County and Long Island people. And because these people are on average more affluent they are even more detached.
We're also bringing in thousands of young professionals who are, by and large, NOT drawn by the politics here at the state level. They detest it, and will hopefully be reliable voters.

You mention landscape. We've been through this before. Austin (southwest through northwest part of the city) has a gorgeous landscape of hills and valleys that is a big draw. Houston is in the flat coastal plain, but much of the city and metro are forested. The northwest side of San Antonio is very scenic, like west Austin. I can't say much for the midwestern landscape of Dallas, although the south side has hills with nice views of the skyline. It would be fairer of you to not use a broad generalization.

Last edited by AviationGuy; May 5, 2022 at 5:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 4:54 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Not really. You're getting people who are priced out more than anything. You're likely getting alot blue collar hispanics. That's what happened in Vegas and Phoenix.

You might get some who leave for politics, but that's not the majority. Or even close. There's still what, like 13-15 million republicans in California? I know social media wants people to believe they all hate California, but most of them like it.
We're also getting a large number of high paid professionals. In Austin, these professionals are paying cash for houses in the city that are priced at over $1M, including in my previously moderately priced neighborhood. The demand for high end housing is pretty incredible here. Realtors are seeing the same thing in the Houston and DFW areas. I just asked my realtor nephew in Cypress Bridgeland, and he confirmed the hot market in much of the metro, although not to the extent Austin is. I was interested in Bridgeland (Houston Cypress), but backed off because I don't want to deal with bidding wars that my nephew told me about.

I can tell you from personal experience that homes in the city proper of Austin often sell within a day or two of going on the market.

We probably are also getting blue collar transplants who are filling jobs in the service industries, which are booming here.

Last edited by AviationGuy; May 5, 2022 at 5:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 4:56 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariusb View Post
I've also read that Texas really underperforms when it comes to voting. Especially in the Rio Grande Valley and it's been said that Republicans are trying their damnedest to keep Texas in their corner using voter suppression.
You are correct. Voter interest is not what it should be, and voter suppression is the norm.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:11 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
We're also getting a large number of high paid professionals. In Austin, these professionals are paying cash for houses in the city that are priced at over $1M, including in my previously moderately priced neighborhood. The demand for high end housing is pretty incredible here. Realtors are seeing the same thing in the Houston and DFW areas. In our large cities, bidding wars are the norm, and I can tell you from personal experience that homes in the city proper of Austin often sell within a day or two of going on the market. We probably are also getting blue collar transplants who are filling jobs in the service industries, which are booming here.

It's definitely more blue collar than high paid professionals lol.
I know people in Texas like to think it's the latter but lets be real.

For one, there's just alot more blue collar positions than vice versa. That's just reality.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:19 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
It's definitely more blue collar than high paid professionals lol.
I know people in Texas like to think it's the latter but lets be real.

For one, there's just alot more blue collar positions than vice versa. That's just reality.
I think it's a lot of both. Can you provide your source, though, that shows more blue collar than professional that's attracting the newcomers? I'm not saying you're wrong, but would like to see your data.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:23 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
I think it's a lot of both. Can you provide your source, though, that shows more blue collar than professional that's attracting the newcomers? I'm not saying you're wrong, but would like to see your data.
Do you have data for the opposite?
There are articles that most people who leave California are priced out, yes. Many are blue collar Hispanics.
Do some high paid tech workers leave? Sure. But those aren't typical jobs in either state. Both states have more blue collar, do they not?

Where's the data affluent orange county people are leaving for Texas?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:34 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Do you have data for the opposite?
There are articles that most people who leave California are priced out, yes. Many are blue collar Hispanics.
Do some high paid tech workers leave? Sure. But those aren't typical jobs in either state. Both states have more blue collar, do they not?

Where's the data affluent orange county people are leaving for Texas?
I didn't claim the opposite. I said I believe it's both. You claimed more blue collar attracting newcomers. I told you I'm not doubting you, but that I would like to see your data.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:36 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
I want to see data it's equal then.
Because you sound like you think it is.

I did say some tech workers.
It's just common sense. Both states have more blue collar jobs than high paid tech jobs lol.
I don't know anyone can question that.
You're like it's high paying professionals and oh yeah some blue collar I guess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:49 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
.

It's common knowledge by now who's actually leaving California. If Texas gets the most Californians by raw numbers, you can tell what it is.

https://www.ppic.org/blog/whos-leavi...hos-moving-in/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:54 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
One thing to think about is that prices cannot have skyrocketed without the demand created by professional job openings. The fact that so many properties are being purchased with cash means very high paid professional positions. That's what's happening right here in my neighborhood. The suburbs are booming as well, and are getting expensive, but nothing like the inner cities.

It is of concern that existing blue collar residents, as well as any new arrivals, are priced out of decent living accommodations. Families are starting to double up (or more) in some Austin apartments because the rents are out of sight. And I'm talking about really poor living conditions. There have been TV stories of apartment complexes here charging very high rents, yet repairs aren't being made, water gets cut off, stairs collapse. That's another story...the conditions low wage earners are living in here. Then there's the homeless situation, which is similar to what is occurring on the West Coast.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:55 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
I want to see data it's equal then.
Because you sound like you think it is.

I did say some tech workers.
It's just common sense. Both states have more blue collar jobs than high paid tech jobs lol.
I don't know anyone can question that.
You're like it's high paying professionals and oh yeah some blue collar I guess.
I'm beginning to feel like you're not even reading my posts. End of discussion. Good night.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 5:56 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
I'm beginning to feel like you're not even reading my posts. End of discussion. Good night.
Eh, I actually linked an article with data .
I read your last post. You keep going on and on about high paid professionals.
Do you not understand rising rents and housing prices is national?
Even the inland empire, which isn't full of high paid professionals.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 6:03 AM
homebucket homebucket is offline
你的媽媽
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Bay
Posts: 8,759
This data is a bit dated. I'm sure it's shifting slightly more towards higher income folks moving to Texas with all the tech growth, but it does show that that majority of folks moving to Texas are middle to lower income. I think AviationGuy is seeing a lot of younger highly paid professionals because he's in Austin, but that's probably not representative of Texas as a whole. The data shows the majority of Californians moving to other parts of Texas are families with kids, and those with only high school education.

Quote:
Although California has had net out-migration among most demographic groups, it has gained among those with higher incomes ($110,000 per year or more) and higher levels of education (graduate degrees).

...

Families with kids and those with only a high school education predominate among those moving from California to its top destination states (Texas, Arizona, and Nevada). College-educated 18 to 35 year olds led the way among those moving to California from its top feeder states (New York, Illinois, and New Jersey).


https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 6:05 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,003
Looks like it matches the data from the 2021 article I posted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 6:14 AM
homebucket homebucket is offline
你的媽媽
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Bay
Posts: 8,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Believe it for not, it's native Texans or those who've been here a while (like me) that tend to lean more 'blue' while transplants (esp. recently) tend to skew more conservative. We are not getting California's granola crunchers but their economic and political refugees. Austin is a outlier because of tech and Californians are looking to replicate CA in a cheaper area but most people from Chicago, New England, NY or CA I met around here couldn't leave those places fast enough. Most of my classmates who left NY after school tend to be more conservative and wound up in places like TX, FL and other southern states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
One thing to think about is that prices cannot have skyrocketed without the demand created by professional job openings. The fact that so many properties are being purchased with cash means very high paid professional positions. That's what's happening right here in my neighborhood. The suburbs are booming as well, and are getting expensive, but nothing like the inner cities.

It is of concern that existing blue collar residents, as well as any new arrivals, are priced out of decent living accommodations. Families are starting to double up (or more) in some Austin apartments because the rents are out of sight. And I'm talking about really poor living conditions. There have been TV stories of apartment complexes here charging very high rents, yet repairs aren't being made, water gets cut off, stairs collapse. That's another story...the conditions low wage earners are living in here. Then there's the homeless situation, which is similar to what is occurring on the West Coast.
As JManc mentioned, it sounds like what you're seeing in Austin is an outlier due to the tech boom. The vast majority of other Californians moving to Texas are not the same as the kind you're seeing in Austin.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 10:06 AM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Looks like it matches the data from the 2021 article I posted.
Yeah but it didnt prove your point. Look at that chart. Texas gains across the board in the income range, going from working class to middle class. Do you have the raw numbers for each income bracket? Especially for those making between $50k to $140k annually as the chart shows thats the biggest chunk of people moving from CA to Texas.

If not how can you say Texas is gaining mostly blue collar workers? Besides those are nice middle class salaries. And Houston blue collar isnt normal blue collar anyway. People make six figures down there with HS diplomas and some certs. Especially with all the high income professional growth happening the last 2-3 years. Remote work made it easier. I just had a colleague move from Oakland to Houston so he can keep his Bay Area salary but own a large home in a nice neighborhood with great schools for his family. Many cases like this.

Also think it's interesting how you assume Texas will go blue in 2028. After 08 the popular thing to say was Texas is going blue next election. First it was 2012, then no wait 2016, then no wait 2020, etc. California was far better when there was balance in its politics, so why do people want Texas to be one way?

Balance is best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
As JManc mentioned, it sounds like what you're seeing in Austin is an outlier due to the tech boom. The vast majority of other Californians moving to Texas are not the same as the kind you're seeing in Austin.
DFW is the same way as Austin. Much high income growth with the amount of relocations they had. Houston doesnt receive as many domestic migrants though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 10:21 AM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post

I've made it a point to look for out of state plates while sitting bored in traffic. It's really amazing how many out of staters there are here and from how far. I've been sitting in traffic and seen multiple ones around us.
That's what Houston was like in the late 70s. Most were from Michigan or New York.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 12:15 PM
strongbad635 strongbad635 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston, TX 77011
Posts: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
Some of our suburbs have become less red, or even blue, over time. Plano, a wealthy suburb of Dallas, was largely blue in 2020, as was Fort Bend County near Houston. Parts of Cypress have become less red, notably the Bridgeland area, where my nephew lives. Some Austin suburbs that were previously solid red have become blue. I don't have much hope for places like The Woodlands, though.
Not only has Fort Bend County turned blue in 2016, but in the 2020 election, so did Williamson County and Hays County, which are the counties immediately north and south of Austin. And Tarrant County (containing Ft. Worth) went blue for the first time since 1964. Denton County saw the Dems crack 45%, their best performance there since 1976. And Collin County, once famously the most conservative suburban county in the US according to many pundits, saw Biden get almost 47% of the vote, something unheard of only 15 years ago.

In the flip side, the Dems have collapsed in the rural counties of Texas, to the point where in some districts the party hasn't even put up a challenger to the GOP. However many of those counties are either in a consistent population decline, or their growth is just too slow compared to the suburban counties that are turning more purple. That's how Biden was able to but Trump's lead in half, and Hillary was able to cut the GOP's lead from 2012 by almost 7%.

Only part of this is due to migration, and people keep forgetting this. A lot of these new blue voters have been living here for a while and used to vote for the GOP. But as the Republicans have shifted from a right-wing party focused on trickle-down economics into a far-right party focused not on policy, but on culture warriors, educated suburban voters are less interested. They largely support lgbt rights. They are increasingly pro-choice. They embrace diversity. Polling shows a majority of suburban voters view immigration as a net positive for the country. They see having more women in power as a good thing. They tend to be more educated on the history of race in the US, so these intense battles against so-called Critical Race Theory are a big turn-off. They're still fiscally conservative: supportive of tax cuts, NOT supportive of people joining labor unions, skeptical of ideas like universal healthcare and stronger workplace protections. But those ideas are not where the GOP and their giant, well-funded media infrastructure are swaying the public conversation. It's all about culture wars now, so these voters are more comfortable sitting on the rightward flank of the Democratric Party than being called communists and child groomers for sitting at the leftward flank of a Republican Party that has declared them the enemy for thinking their gay cousin should be able to get married and live openly.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted May 5, 2022, 1:14 PM
The New York Lion The New York Lion is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Texas is defintely going blue at some point. I'm guessing 2028 or 2032 presidential election. I don't see 2024. Republicans are doing whatever they can because it's going to happen and they're screwed. There's nothing they can do once Texas goes blue and they know it.
I doubt this.

The trends among Latinos do not bode well for the Democratic Party.

They care more about the economy and are not fans of the social policies. This is evidenced by the numbers in the Rio Grande Valley and Florida in the 2020 election.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:18 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.