How cities deal with Airbnb

[Pedestrian]

I don't mean to limit this just to my city but this news article caught my eye. I'm glad they are getting serious enforcing the law requiring short term rentals to register with the city and comply with it's bans on conversion of homes to tourist rentals:

SF shuts down illegal Airbnbs
By Adam Brinklow
Nov 21, 2018, 10:29am PST

On Monday, the San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera (announced a) settlement (concerning a) Bernal Heights home on Banks Street:

The owners, Erik M. Rogers and his wife, Anshu Singh, had unlawfully converted the single-family home into a two-unit building and then illegally rented it out for more than a year through online short-term rental sites Airbnb and HomeAway/VRBO . . . .

The owner of 212 Banks is in Bali, according to city supervisor Hillary Ronen. Since he doesn’t live at the home, renting it on sites like Airbnb for a weekend is in violation of the city short-term rental policy.

Herrera sued Rogers and Singh in May, alleging that the pair illegally rented the house 487 nights over the course of 15 months and charged guests more than $700 per night . . . .

Earlier this month, the city wrapped up another illegal Airbnb case from May, which focused on a “chain” of outlaw rentals hidden by an elaborate network of “straw hosts.”

Herrera had sought $5.5 million that case—six times what landlords Valerie and Darren Lee made off their short-term rentals—but ended up settling for $2.5 million. The Lees are also barred from renting on Airbnb and similar homes until 2025.

(Possibly as a result of prosecutions like these) “the number of formal complaints related to illegal short-term rental activity in San Francisco has continued to drop” throughout 2018—though down 50 percent year over year in the first three quarters.

https://sf.curbed.com/2018/11/21/181...gers-singh-lee

[sopas ej]

I've never used Airbnb, but I wouldn't want to; the whole concept sounds dubious to me.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I don't like the idea of staying at someone's house, which is not regulated or licensed to be an inn or a B&B or a hotel/motel etc. It's someone's house, so that means they can show up inside the property at any time, while you're sleeping there or while you're out and about, right? And what about liabilities? I'd rather stay at a hotel.

It's kind of like Uber/Lyft to me; I'd rather use a regulated taxi that is dispatched to you/your ride is recorded by a dispatcher and whose drivers and vehicles are subject to DOT laws rather than riding in some unregulated driver's Kia Forte, and you end up paying a lot anyway depending on time of day, etc.

[JManc]

I've used them...most recently on a week long photo trip to Utah. We spent about $1200 for 6 days in a 3 bedroom apartment with laundry. Try finding a hotel for that cheap that accommodate 4 people.

[TexasPlaya]

It’s useful, but maybe not as useful once some of problems get worked out.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by JManc

I've used them...most recently on a week long photo trip to Utah. We spent about $1200 for 6 days in a 3 bedroom apartment with laundry. Try finding a hotel for that cheap that accommodate 4 people.

Even if an Airbnb is more expensive than a hotel it is well worth it to have a washer/dryer, kitchen, a place to lounge, separate bedrooms... Say what you will about the impacts it may have on cities, but Airbnb and service apartments have made traveling a much more pleasant experience for longer stays and for families.

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Even if an Airbnb is more expensive than a hotel it is well worth it to have a washer/dryer, kitchen, a place to lounge, separate bedrooms... Say what you will about the impacts it may have on cities, but Airbnb and service apartments have made traveling a much more pleasant experience for longer stays and for families.

As I'm normally traveling with family this is the main advantage over hotels for me, much better than all being stuffed into one room with a pull out sofa bed and no more cooking facilities than a kettle to make a cup of instant coffee.

But then Air BnB isn't the only platform offering this, there are several others that I've used, several of which were around well before Air BnB became a big thing. I've used Air BnB quite a number of times but only rarely in big city centres, most of the time has been in rural areas or small towns, and in those places it can be very good value.

I've been paying €60-€70 a night or less in most cases to house a family of 4 which you would never get in a decent hotel, plus you get additional facilities like cooking, washing etc and often much more space in an apartment or house compared with a hotel room too.

[jd3189]

My friend’s family has used Airbnb a few times before and I have been to many of the places that they lodged in.

Overall, it’s a good idea, especially in places like Manhattan or Miami where condos can be left empty for most of the year. Home owners can generate profit from their places to offset some of the money they’re losing to property taxes. Plus you would probably get an urban experience similar to that of a city’s long time residents if you used an Airbnb.

[C.]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I've never used Airbnb, but I wouldn't want to; the whole concept sounds dubious to me.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I don't like the idea of staying at someone's house, which is not regulated or licensed to be an inn or a B&B or a hotel/motel etc. It's someone's house, so that means they can show up inside the property at any time, while you're sleeping there or while you're out and about, right? And what about liabilities? I'd rather stay at a hotel.

It's kind of like Uber/Lyft to me; I'd rather use a regulated taxi that is dispatched to you/your ride is recorded by a dispatcher and whose drivers and vehicles are subject to DOT laws rather than riding in some unregulated driver's Kia Forte, and you end up paying a lot anyway depending on time of day, etc.

You sound like a prune. Uber/Lyft is a damn public service with the amount of DUIs they have prevented. There was a study done in NYC showing a steep decline when ride sharing started to become main stream.

[C.]

Instead of fighting it - here is one city and rental propriety owner that embraced it. The result? Record-breaking lease up immediately with all 760 units rented within months.

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/5/25/1569...te-development

In New York, using Airbnb to rent out a spare room isn’t just frowned upon—it’s straight-up illegal, with a recently-enacted law imposing hefty fines on renters who are found to be breaking the law. (That regulation has been harder to enforce than was perhaps originally anticipated.)

But in New Jersey, the rules are a bit different: Per Jersey Digs, “State laws do not currently place any restrictions on owners who wish to rent their property out short-term, which means regulation choices are made at the local level and can vary wildly.” So it’s not quite so simple—but in Jersey City, at least, short-term rentals are legal, with Airbnb reaching an agreement to charge a small “hotel tax” on listings in the city.

Now, Airbnb is going one step further in its attempt to ingratiate itself with developers (and the cities they’re working in): It’s partnered with Ironstate Development, the firm behind Jersey City Urby, on what it’s calling the “Friendly Building Program.” Through that initiative, developers get a chunk of change from a building’s Airbnb hosts, who in turn will be able to rent their apartments through the platform without penalty.

So far, the company has rolled the program out in about 10,000 listings across the U.S., with Jersey City Urby being the first participant in the northeast, according to an Airbnb spokesperson.

“Having the ability to use home-sharing sites has become increasingly important to renters,” David Barry, the CEO of Ironstate, said in a statement. “By aligning with Airbnb, Jersey City Urby is able to give residents this option, as well as simplify the hosting process so they can enjoy their time away from home.”

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Barry identified another reason why renters at Urby may want to utilize the service: the cost of living there. Studios are currently going from $2,000/month, with a two-bedroom renting for as much as $3,400/month—which isn’t all that far off from, say, rents in Brooklyn or Queens. Renting a room on Airbnb in the short term could prove lucrative for building tenants.

And according to the WSJ, Barry “concluded that many younger renters already had experience as either rental hosts or customers at home-sharing sites”—thus, this could be packaged as yet another possible perk for the demographic Ironstate is courting with its amenity-packed Urby developments.

[niwell]

As someone who uses airbnb extensively, I strongly agree that it needs to be regulated in some form to address concerns at the local level. Whether that be municipal or province/state. The unintended consequences

Personally I'm generally in favour of registration by owner and some form of taxation for units that are used exclusively for airbnb purposes. If an entire multi-unit building is being used as an airbnb (this does exist) it should be taxed as a hotel would be. In Toronto this would mean considerably higher property taxes. For those who rent out extra bedrooms or their house when on vacation, taxation is probably not necessary but I'd still like to see registration. Secondary suites such as basements are a bit more of a grey area as in some areas they really do remove viable housing stock. Overall though this should be up to an individual jurisdiction to determine what fits best.

For me airbnbs have been useful for lower prices, but much more importantly to be able to get a larger place that's actually located in the part of a city I want to stay in. Hotels tend to either be right in CBD / tourist districts or less desirable semi-industrial districts. Neither of which I have any interest in. When looking for an airbnb I do try and look for a place that the owner rents out when they are away or a fully separated secondary suite within their place. It's usually easy to spot something that's solely for airbnb purposes.

Originally Posted by sopas ej

It's kind of like Uber/Lyft to me; I'd rather use a regulated taxi that is dispatched to you/your ride is recorded by a dispatcher and whose drivers and vehicles are subject to DOT laws rather than riding in some unregulated driver's Kia Forte, and you end up paying a lot anyway depending on time of day, etc.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ard-scams.html

This happened to a friend of mine recently who was scammed out of almost $1000 before he even realized what had happened. In a cab that was a fully registered and from the largest taxi company in the city. The bank eventually replaced the money after an annoying process but the cab company's response was essentially "meh, not our problem". And that's just the icing on the cake for numerous issues I've experienced or have had friends experience with licensed taxis in this city.

I'm not a fan of the predatory models that uber, and to a lesser extend lyft use, but as long as cabs are corrupt and overpriced (here at least) it's not hard to see why they have been so successful. I rarely take either unless I have to but will almost always choose rideshare services over cabs, particularly when I'm on vacation.

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I've never used Airbnb, but I wouldn't want to; the whole concept sounds dubious to me.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I don't like the idea of staying at someone's house, which is not regulated or licensed to be an inn or a B&B or a hotel/motel etc. It's someone's house, so that means they can show up inside the property at any time, while you're sleeping there or while you're out and about, right? And what about liabilities? I'd rather stay at a hotel.

You can choose between different types of stay, 'shared room', 'individual room in part of a home' or 'whole home'. If you don't want the owner to be popping in and sharing the home while you stay there just pick the latter option. As a family that's what I always go for, but if you are a young single person the other options are not that different to staying in a hostel in terms of privacy i guess.

I have to say all my experiences so far have been good, some interesting properties at reasonable prices and whenever I've met owners for handover of keys etc they have been friendly (which I guess they have to be if they don't want bad reviews!).

[sopas ej]

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

[eschaton]

I've only used Airbnb a handful of times. But it's helpful in certain cases. When I travel with the wife and kids, for example, we can rent a two-bedroom apartment. For whatever reason, finding suites on Kayak and the like is a real pain in the butt.

Also, in smaller cities, I generally find gives you better results. For example, on a trip south to Savannah last year we wanted to stop overnight halfway in Boone, NC and explore a bit. The way Boone was set up, all the hotels were off on some sort of semi-highway far away from downtown. We found an Airbnb unit though on the "right side" of town where we could just stroll down the hill and go to brunch in the morning.

I do admit that I can see the problem if in a small, particularly touristy city most units are converted over to Airbnb, leaving nowhere for residents to live. But ultimately this is in part a failure of zoning, which hasn't allocated enough hotel units in the areas that people would most like to stay.

[LouisVanDerWright]

I have two Airbnb units here in Chicago. In the winter time they make 100-150% of what I could rent them for. In the summer they make 300-400% what I could rent them for.

Chicago collects their taxes and then rejects your license application over and over again for stuff like "you put 'Unit 1F' and in our system is "Unit 1N"...

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

You can choose between different types of stay, 'shared room', 'individual room in part of a home' or 'whole home'. If you don't want the owner to be popping in and sharing the home while you stay there just pick the latter option.

It should be noted that in San Francisco and some other cities, the law requires that if homes and/or apartments that are normally rented longer term as residences are to be rented by the night or otherwise short term for more than 90 days per year, the owner MUST be present. That is to say, if you want to rent out your spare bedroom on Airbnb while you are still at home or rent out your entire house/apartment while you are on vacation, that's OK, but you can't rent your entire home as an Airbnb rental for more than 90 days a year. The purpose of this is to preserve the housing stock for residents in cities popular with tourists.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

I almost never cook when I travel and I still prefer Airbnbs to hotels, in most cases. I guess it depends on why you travel. I tend to not like the tourist traps, so Airbnb is good for finding places where locals congregate.

I also travel for work a lot and we're required to use hotels for business travel, so the hotel experience isn't really exotic to me. It may sound odd, but if you spend 4-5 days a week sleeping in perfect hotel beds, you do miss "regular" beds.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

When travelling in Europe, many times I have stayed in "pensions" which are essentially a spare room somebody rents out REGULARLY and never uses for their own family purposes. I have also stayed in rented condos. But it seems to me that regularity is the essential point.

I don't want to stay in somebody else's place while they are away for the weekend with their "stuff" all around me. I basically want a space, whether a single room or multiroom home, empty of someone else's belongings (except, of course, for essential linens etc) and ready for me to make my own for as long as I stay there. This generally mean if its an Airbnb rental, it needs to be one that is continuously used as such (which, as I said above, would be illegal in San Francisco except for the spare bedroom thing with the owner still at home).

But now to my most basic, fundamental disagreement with/hostility to Airbnb: My own home is a condo in the middle of the city which means in some ways security is very much an issue. I simply don't want transients who are on vacation and have no interest in or concern for the security of neighboring residents coming and going in the building. In fact, our HOA precludes renting a unit to more than 4 different persons in a year (or providing "hotel services" to it) and it requires anyone occupying a unit to undergo an orientation by the HOA staff, in the HOA office, to the building rules (about "guests", use of amenities and so on). Somebody renting an apartment for a few nights or even a week probably isn't going to want to go through all this and is likely to try to avoid it as well as just treating the place as a vacation "party pad" rather than a building full of "homes".

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

Eating out on vacation is nice, but I also like cooking the stuff I find in local markets and supermarkets. Plus eating out every time gets very expensive for a family. We went on holidays around Central Europe for three weeks in the summer, if we had eaten out for every meal that would be 21x3x4=272 restaurant meals which soon gets into big budget territory for a regular Joe like myself!

[Centropolis]

i was nearly jailed for leaving a mustard stain on granite

[Baronvonellis]

I used Airbnb about 30 times. I've only had one bad experience, where the host advertised a bedroom and then wanted me to sleep on the couch when I got there. After complaining to him eventually he let me use the bedroom I paid for. Otherwise, I love Airbnb and have made some amazing new friends through it. I guess you have to do it like an experience where you want to meet local people. I did it all over Europe, and I got to stay with local people that knew the city and could give me lots of great recommendations on places to see and restaurants. It's like have a personal concierge in the city. In one case I got food poisioning and the host called their local doctor to make me an appointment in Dutch, showed me where the pharmacy was, and even cooked me dinner while I was sick! Try getting that service at a budget hotel!

I recently stayed in a huge beautiful home in Salt Lake City, doing a Utah photography tour as well, and the host had just bought half a buffalo. So when I got there they made buffalo steaks and an amazing stew with fresh baked bread, pastries, and a huge breakfast in the morning. They were rich and only wanted $40 a night! They were the most gracious people and went out of their way to be helpful to me.

You have to look for people that are superhosts, they usually love hosting and will go out of their way for you.
I've had so many amazing experiences through Airbnb that I can't even put a value you on. How do you value a new friend, and having a locals perspective of the city you are visiting? I like to travel like Rick Steves does, and he always says try to be like a temporary local. I think if you have that travel philophy Airbnb is great! If you like a boring sanitary chain hotel it's probably not for everyone.
I got hugely ripped off by a licensed city taxi in Rome when I first got there. The guy basically extorted me for 50 euros extra as I had my suitcase in his trunk. I've never had any trouble with Uber.