[Dartmouth] 307 Prince Albert Road | ? m | 16 fl | U/C - Page 16

CPMatt · #**301** Posted **Apr 23, 2018, 3:50 PM**

Not sure if this is a new listing, but Avison Young has 307 Prince Albert listed for sale.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink...d=4824&LL=true

Keith P. · #**302** Posted **Apr 23, 2018, 5:43 PM**

Well, that's rather deceptive, showing a rendering of 15 floors plus penthouse. That must the the hotel that can be built as of right. But all that the councillor for the area is willing to allow for any other kind of development is a sawed-off version of that at 7 floors.

It would be hilarious if the property was sold and the hotel project got built now.

kph06 · #**303** Posted **Apr 23, 2018, 5:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, that's rather deceptive, showing a rendering of 15 floors plus penthouse. That must the the hotel that can be built as of right. But all that the councillor for the area is willing to allow for any other kind of development is a sawed-off version f that at 7 floors.

It would be hilarious if the property was sold and the hotel project got built now.

I too first thought this was misleading, especially the "No height restrictions" note in the description. The cut sheet however does clearly state it is "Hotel Development Land for Sale". Hotel at this height is as of right and could be built with little legal recourse as far as I know. This could be a tactic or a way to gauge what current market value of the land is.

spaustin · #**304** Posted **Sep 7, 2018, 2:47 AM**

This one was approved this evening. I'll have my own write up tomorrow, but Woodford's report pretty accurately reflects how it went.

https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018...-approval.html

JET · #**305** Posted **Sep 7, 2018, 12:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaustin

This one was approved this evening. I'll have my own write up tomorrow, but Woodford's report pretty accurately reflects how it went.

https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018...-approval.html

I have no problem with this, and I expect most people who live in the area also don't have a problem with it. It would be good if the other empty lots nearby would also be developed.

DT Hfx · #**306** Posted **Sep 7, 2018, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaustin

This one was approved this evening. I'll have my own write up tomorrow, but Woodford's report pretty accurately reflects how it went.

Sam, you have earned my respect by resisting the easy route and instead standing up for what is obviously the right choice.

spaustin · #**307** Posted **Sep 7, 2018, 8:00 PM**

Thanks guys. Here's my detailed take from my website.

http://www.samaustin.ca/prince-alber...development-3/

OldDartmouthMark · #**308** Posted **Sep 11, 2018, 9:06 PM**

Good for you, Sam.

Some of the arguments were inane to say the least. I suspect the silent majority will be glad to see some infill in this area. I personally think the right decision was made.

IanWatson · #**309** Posted **Sep 28, 2018, 1:04 PM**

I do believe Council's decision on this one was appealed to the UARB. I don't see the appeal having much chance of winning; only delaying the inevitable.

spaustin · #**310** Posted **Dec 2, 2018, 2:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I do believe Council's decision on this one was appealed to the UARB. I don't see the appeal having much chance of winning; only delaying the inevitable.

Yes it has been appealed. The UARB hearing starts Dec 10 so sometime early in the New Year we'll know whether I erred or not

IanWatson · #**311** Posted **Dec 3, 2018, 1:22 PM**

Regardless, the owners have torn down the funeral home!

Keith P. · #**312** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 2:45 PM**

A sudden twist in this tale!!

http://www.samaustin.ca/prince-alber...d-hotel-fight/

Quote:

There has been a twist in the controversial Prince Albert Road and Glenwood Avenue development. Site preparations are underway, but the developers don’t intend to build the eight storey apartment building that Council approved back in September. Instead, they intend to build a 16 storey hotel. The hotel development is as-of-right, and doesn’t require Council approval. It’s a decision that makes a mockery of both the upcoming Centre Plan and the seven year process to get to an approved mid-rise residential project. It’s deeply disappointing and infuriating and I will fight it.

==

So why do the developers want to build a hotel after they spent so much time and energy pursuing an apartment building? When they notified me of the switch to a hotel, they indicated that they had reconsidered their options a few months ago because it had taken so long to get the apartment approved, and because the appeal to the Utility and Review Board by the Banook Area Residents Association had created uncertainty as to whether Council’s decision would be upheld. The developers also indicated they were concerned that, even if the UARB upheld Council’s decision, the ruling might be further challenged at the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal.

==

There is a profound difference between having the legal right to do something and it being the right thing to do. The developers, Tony Maskine, Wadih Jabour, and Pierre Jabour, have opted to take advantage of Dartmouth’s outdated planning strategy to construct a building that is totally out of scale with everything around it. They’ve done so knowing that it’s not supported by the community, after Council already rejected 15 and 9, and mere months before the incoming Centre Plan will eliminate District 5’s flawed commercial zoning. They’ve done so after an exhaustive process that produced an approved apartment project. The seven storey plus penthouse option that Council approved in September wasn’t loved by everyone, but it was a fair compromise reached in good faith and, from the feedback that I received, it was generally supported by the broader community.

The developers have turned their backs on the compromise to pursue a 16 storey hotel, not because it’s right for Dartmouth, but because they can and it’s in their financial interest. Maybe that’s good business, but it’s not in the community’s interest. They’re putting their interest ahead of everyone else. It may be their legal right, but it’s not the right thing to do. I’m deeply disappointed in their decision.

Next week, I will introduce a motion at Council to see what, if anything, HRM can do to stop this. It won’t be easy. The hotel is allowed under Dartmouth’s current planning rules, the developers have had a permit since 2009, and site preparations have already begun. Being a planner, I know that’s not a great place to be starting from, but this is worth fighting.

Hoist on his own petard!

While I can understand his reaction, it serves him right for forcing a sawed-off development onto the owners. Perhaps this is a lesson to planners everywhere that just because you think something is "right", it doesn't change the economics, and you cannot force something to be built when a property owner has other more profitable options.

Colin May · #**313** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A sudden twist in this tale!!

http://www.samaustin.ca/prince-alber...d-hotel-fight/
Hoist on his own petard!

While I can understand his reaction, it serves him right for forcing a sawed-off development onto the owners. Perhaps this is a lesson to planners everywhere that just because you think something is "right", it doesn't change the economics, and you cannot force something to be built when a property owner has other more profitable options.

The easy solution was downzoning the site by the Harbour East Community council and this could have been done any time, including the more than 2 years since the 2016 municipal election. Moaning about the old Dartmouth Plan is a waste of time. Swift action to downzone would have been the best fix.
A 15 storey hotel will be expensive and I would not be shocked to discover that foreign money is involved in the project. It is a great location for a hotel with easy access to highways and downtown and we need the taxes to pay for bike lanes. The only way to stop the proposal is through expropriation and that would require the support of Mayor Savage.
Sales at The Avery are s....l....o....w only 16 of 69 units sold.

JET · #**314** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 6:44 PM**

A few years back a neighbor put a butt ugly shipping container on his property just days before council banned homeowners putting butt ugly shipping containers on their property. Not much can be done after the horse is out of the barn. Same reason heritage stock is getting torn down, if council won't act or delays acting, someone else will make a move.

Keith P. · #**315** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin May

The easy solution was downzoning the site by the Harbour East Community council and this could have been done any time, including the more than 2 years since the 2016 municipal election. Moaning about the old Dartmouth Plan is a waste of time. Swift action to downzone would have been the best fix.
A 15 storey hotel will be expensive and I would not be shocked to discover that foreign money is involved in the project. It is a great location for a hotel with easy access to highways and downtown and we need the taxes to pay for bike lanes. The only way to stop the proposal is through expropriation and that would require the support of Mayor Savage.
Sales at The Avery are s....l....o....w only 16 of 69 units sold.

Keep in mind that the process for this site started 7 years ago, when Gloria torpedoed it early in the process. I was amazed the developer put up with the treatment they got from HRM throughout. So I think HRM got what they deserved here for putting him through this. And of course the Centre Plan would have wiped out any opportunity to make money at this site, so it isn't hugely surprising.

I drove past the Avery on the weekend and noticed the lack of occupancy. All of the street-level retail remains vacant - not a surprise as that stretch of Alderney is not a pedestrian street in any way, shape or form, so I would expect that it will remain empty for a long time - and the residential units seemed sparsely occupied as well. I don't know if it is a price issue or not, as I thought the units looked good and were nicely finished. Unfortunately DT Dartmouth still has quite a ways to go, and The Avery is on the very edge of what little commercial retail that DT has, a bit of a walk to lower Portland St.

OldDartmouthMark · #**316** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 10:23 PM**

I have to say it appears the developers have really been jerked around on this one, and I usually don't side with the developers...

IMHO, the hotel would probably be a good addition to the neighborhood. It could help to bring up the level of surrounding businesses. I can't help but think it would be an idea place to stay for anybody taking in rowing events on Lake Banook, plus it is only a 10-15 minute walk to the ferry... and less to the (continually increasing number of) microbreweries/restaurants in DT Dartmouth...

Colin May · #**317** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 10:49 PM**

The councillor had 6 years to prepare a good strategy. He ran against Gloria in 2012, lost and really annoyed her because in 2011 she gave him money from the discretionary spending funds from HRM to plant tulip bulbs on Tulip & Victoria. The flowers bloomed a few months before his campaign began.
From late 2012 to the October 2016 election he had enough time to consult with voters in the area and talk to planning staff to decide how to change the zoning. Had he done the preparatory work he may have convinced staff to support amendments to change the zoning to permit a 6-10 storey residential building.
This is not a case of the councillor,staff and public being blindsided. More a case of not having a sound, credible argument to put forward to staff the day after he won the 2016 election and indicating to staff and Harbour East Community council colleagues that the public support for a quick public hearing for a HRM proposal to rezone the property was a prudent and reasonable course of action.

Keith P. · #**318** Posted **Apr 9, 2019, 11:22 PM**

Austin has been increasingly disappointing as a Councillor and seeing him on the news tonight looking unshaven, unkempt and ranting while in high dudgeon did his image no favours. He and Mason see the very flawed Centre Plan as a panacea for all development problems when in reality it is no such thing and will really only serve to put a chill on the development community in the core, leading them to focus on other areas.

worldlyhaligonian · #**319** Posted **Apr 10, 2019, 3:07 AM**

This is classic Halifax.

spaustin · #**320** Posted **Apr 13, 2019, 6:56 AM**

Well I must be doing something right if I have managed at 2.5 years to thoroughly disappoint Keithp

A large club.

In no way am I anti-development. Recall that I faced down an angry room to approve the eight storey residential option on this project and had a few choice four letters words hurled my way for my troubles. I think I'm probably one of the only Councillors who would do that in their own district. Most would have thrown good planning right out the window to pander. I didn't because something should be built here and well-designed mid-rise residential would be a great fit.

In terms of Colin's point about being able to stop this, he's half right. I considered trying to go after the commercial zoning to close the hotel option when this came before me in 2017, but doing so would have been an all or nothing gamble that would have either removed the hotel threat or guaranteed the exact outcome that I was trying to avoid: an as-of-right hotel. HRM can't just alter zoning on a whim. It requires a motion from Council to initiate, then a public process, and whatever change is proposed only becomes binding once a public hearing is scheduled. The developer would have seen that coming and would have had several months at least to run out and get a building permit. By forcing him to do the work and put out the cash for a building permit just to protect his only certain option, I very well might have guaranteed the very thing that I was hoping to avoid: an as-of-right hotel. Given how the developer was doggedly pursuing a residential project, and that the Centre Plan was coming forward, it wasn’t a gamble I was willing to make. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but it felt like too big a risk at the time