PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[1487]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
Philly's population in the 1950's was more than it is now. I wonder if car ownership back then was lower or higher. But in any case, with that type of population, 3 or 4 lanes in each direction would of made more sense. Blasting the rocky parts to make the additional lanes and adding highway bridges should of been in the cards, but wonder if there is a documented history on whether it was even considered and if there were listed constraints.

its not about philly, it's about the fact that there wasn't nearly as much population outside of the city. I remember seeing a historical photo from the grand opening of the Expressway and it said volumes were larger than expected almost from Day One. I believe it opened in early 50s which means it was conceived years earlier- before the mass flight to suburbia began. Also, dont forget train service was more robust at that time. There is a website that has the history of all the major highways in the area- it's very informative.

Here it is: http://www.phillyroads.com/roads/schuylkill/

A complicated and interesting history to say the least.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
Philly's population in the 1950's was more than it is now. I wonder if car ownership back then was lower or higher. But in any case, with that type of population, 3 or 4 lanes in each direction would of made more sense. Blasting the rocky parts to make the additional lanes and adding highway bridges should of been in the cards, but wonder if there is a documented history on whether it was even considered and if there were listed constraints.

It goes through some of the region's most expensive residential neighborhoods. I'm sure they fought it lock stock and barrel from the get go.

Swarthmore and Swarthmore College alone are almost single handedly responsible for delaying the Blue Route by 30+ years.

[1487]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It goes through some of the region's most expensive residential neighborhoods. I'm sure they fought it lock stock and barrel from the get go.

Swarthmore and Swarthmore College alone are almost single handedly responsible for delaying the Blue Route by 30+ years.

the link explains it all. They realized early on it was too small but there were no cheap or easy solutions due to the site constraints (including the bridge in manayunk) and a few planned expansion ideas went nowhere. On top of that most of PennDOTS ambitious highway expansion plans died in the 70s.

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Conshy tends to be about a 20-25 minute train ride, whereas it's a 40 minute car ride because I-76 was, for whatever reason, only built with two lanes.

There's honestly nothing SEPTA can do to improve times; it takes almost the most direct route, and the trains tend to do about 50-60 MPH on the straightaways. Maybe make all platforms at door level to allow faster access to trains? That might shave a minute or two off.

I've always thought that there should be an express service on that line that only stops at Norristown, Conshy, and Manayunk, and uses the Cynwyd line as a quicker route to center city. If the trains did about 40 on the Cynwyd line (provided that the necessary safety infrastructure was put in place), it would shave about 5 mins off of the trip into center city (though now it would hit 30th first, rather than Temple). The bridge at Manayunk has been evaluated to be structurally stable to handle train service, so that would be ok (though it is now a rail trail. My girlfriend's dad is VP and we often argue if the trail and a train line could coexist).

Several reasons 76 is only 2 lanes.

1) It is one of the first modern highway systems in the USA. The western portion of 76 (The PA Turnpilke; was the 1st highway in America). So the infrastructure was built to support traffic in the 50s, when the suburbs really did not exist, and SEPTA and transit was way more robust than today.

2) 76 brushes along some of the most expensive real estate in the nation. Gladwyne, PA (19035 zip) is one of the wealthiest in the nation, and certainly when 76 was being developed they did not want a mega highway being built; and it is the reason why the highway has tons of trees, and (honestly is quite pretty; despite always being congested)

3) PennDot will NEVER increase capacity on 76. I have attended board meetings where the Secretary of Transportation has attended, and has stated, it will never be changed, based on the cost. It would be as similar and costly as the Big Dig project in Boston.

4) PennDot does have a plan to open the median as an HOV lane during rush hour, increasing capacity from 2 - 3 lanes. They are still working out kinks as far as, how to manage the system when their is a need for emergency vehicles to access a major accident, etc.

5) There was a plan to add a whole network of highways surrounding Philadelphia in the 60s. But thankfully neighborhood groups spoke out and shut them all down. Southeast Pennsylvania retains much of its character, and is so unique as a suburban metro, because our transit infrastructure is more expansive than our auto infrastructure. Over 70% of workers in Center City take transit to work. This is HUGE.

6) No doubt though, 76 would be a nightmare to commute on EVERYDAY. I would 100% take the train if I had to use that road, even if it added on 15 - 20 minutes to my trip time.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by 1487

the link explains it all. They realized early on it was too small but there were no cheap or easy solutions due to the site constraints (including the bridge in manayunk) and a few planned expansion ideas went nowhere. On top of that most of PennDOTS ambitious highway expansion plans died in the 70s.

I always felt that an extended 309 to the Walt (and 95) would help with some of the traffic

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

I always felt that an extended 309 to the Walt (and 95) would help with some of the traffic

AFAIK the original plan for 309 was to connect it to the Betsy Ross bridge. As someone who grew up in eastern Montco I would have LOVED this, although it wouldn't have been too good from an urbanist standpoint.

[JohnIII]

Philadelphia was very different back then. I remember my father telling me a lot of things about the Schuylkill Expressway because he was here before it was built. They started planning it in the late 1930's but it really didn't take off until right after World War II; like around 1946 or 1947. No other cities were doing highways really at the time so Philadelphia was as usual at the forefront.

The way things were being planned back then was that local leaders wanted the United Nation near City Avenue; the Schuylkill Expressway had the purpose of opening downtown Philly to the United Nations site; and then west to the Pennsylvania Turnpike which already was built. The Pennsylvania Turnpike was built before World War and it was in use before Pearl Harbor was attacked so by the time the Schuylkill Expressway opened it was already in use; as mentioned before it was the nations first Superhighway.

Its really funny as well because I remember seeing a lot of the original plans as a kid; there were other highways planned and thankfully they were never built. There where a lot of subways they were planned to; a Woodland Avenue Subway, Passyunk Avenue Subway; Erie Avenue, Roosevelt Boulevard Subway, the Roxborough Subway which ran up Henry Avenue.

Philly is like London in a way; most people who work in Center City ride mass transit and I suppose if they ever add anything they will add subways; probably elevated lines I guess. I know they started some of the subways; I saw some of the stops and unground stations as a kid like the one at the Art Museum but that was decades ago.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

AFAIK the original plan for 309 was to connect it to the Betsy Ross bridge. As someone who grew up in eastern Montco I would have LOVED this, although it wouldn't have been too good from an urbanist standpoint.

meant the Betsy not the Walt

yes probably though the better connected N and NE philly might have some positives as well

also as part of any phantom highway extended BSL could go to say Ft Washington and maybe a MFL extension via the Betsy into Jersey and say Marlton

[1487]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

I always felt that an extended 309 to the Walt (and 95) would help with some of the traffic

many planned highways were cancelled in this region- they had big plans in the 60s and 70s for all kinds of beltway type highways. The reason there were roads to nowhere near the betsy ross bridge is because of a spur highway never built.

[jonesrmj]

My Vision for Wilmington, Delaware's Next Skyscraper:

[IMG]My Vision for Wilmington, Delaware's Next Skyscraper! by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by 1487

many planned highways were cancelled in this region- they had big plans in the 60s and 70s for all kinds of beltway type highways. The reason there were roads to nowhere near the betsy ross bridge is because of a spur highway never built.

I'm thinking of the blue route (I-476) around Delaware County being one of those projects. Once built, people there had the option to going into Philly via I-95. But, the consequence to some was the suburbanization of the mainline with more homes and people moving and having access that they once hated.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by 1487

many planned highways were cancelled in this region- they had big plans in the 60s and 70s for all kinds of beltway type highways. The reason there were roads to nowhere near the betsy ross bridge is because of a spur highway never built.

And thank goodness they were! I wish that city residents would have fought harder against I-95, but I couldn't be happier that the truly scary stuff never happened (52nd Street Expressway, Girard Avenue Expressway, PA 309 extension to Fishtown, etc.). It's hard to fathom the fact that planners ceded so much of Philly's urban space just to make room for highways intended to get suburbanites into and out of the city quickly.

Although I would much rather see money invested in transit than roads, I would like to see a few regional highway projects occur within my lifetime:

1.) I-76 should be tunneled from just south of the Spring Garden St. interchange to University City via a tunnel under 33rd-34th Street. Not only would this allow I-76 to have six lanes from the Walt Whitman to the US 1 exit, but it would open up so much land on the west bank of the Schuylkill River.

2.) I-95 should mostly run through New Jersey. A new bridge south of the Island Avenue exit would need to be constructed over the Schuylkill River, and a new interchange with I-76 near the 25th Street Viaduct would be erected. After running a concurrency over the Walt Whitman, it would be signed over what is currently I-295 and run into the NJ Turnpike at a new interchange between what is currently I-295 and I-276. This would allow I-95 to be demolished between Pattison and Girard Avenues. The Girard Point Bridge would serve as a high-speed connection to the southern section of Delaware Avenue, and the Girard Avenue Interchange would empty traffic onto the northern section. Everything north of the Girard Avenue Interchange would be signed "I-195".

3.) I-676 should be capped from 22nd to 9th Street, as well as have a direct connection to the BFB. Across the river, I-676 should be completely demolished through Camden. It is a redundant road that does more harm than good to Camden.

4.) US 30 should be downgraded to a signaled boulevard through Camden. It resembles a highway that disconnects Camden in its current form.

5.) The inner portion of Roosevelt Boulevard should be submerged and converted into a limited-access highway for at least as far as the Philadelphia County line.

6.) I-95 should be demolished through Downtown Wilmington. It is a redundant road, and I-495 could handle all of its traffic.

7.) Alternate: I-95 runs over the Delaware Memorial Bridge and gets signed over the entirety of the NJ Turnpike. All other recommendations, except for the proposed connection to I-76, are taken. Everything through Delco and up to Pattison Avenue is signed "I-495". Traffic coming from the south that wishes to travel north must travel along the signaled Columbus Boulevard/Delaware Avenue to the Girard Avenue Interchange, where I-195 will take them as far as the Jersey Shore.

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

Several reasons 76 is only 2 lanes.

2) 76 brushes along some of the most expensive real estate in the nation. Gladwyne, PA (19035 zip) is one of the wealthiest in the nation, and certainly when 76 was being developed they did not want a mega highway being built; and it is the reason why the highway has tons of trees, and (honestly is quite pretty; despite always being congested)

Forget the NIMBY's, any meaningful expansion of 76 would be a massive engineering effort.

With GPS on all of our mobile devices and smart navigation, congestion is not just limited to a highway on the edge of town, congestion is coming to the heart of these uber wealthy zip codes, whether they like it or not. Hundred's of people use these towns as back ways to avoid 76, 422, 476.

Some examples of roads that have up to half mile back ups or at least several lights that take several cycles just to get through
1.) Rt. 23 from Bala Cynwyd to Villanova.
-I've seen a 1-2 mile back up leading into West Conshy. I resorted to a back way to my back way driving on streets where there was not a house under $2.5 million.
-I've also seen several backups through Gladwyne
2.) Belmont Ave through Bala Cynwyd
3.) Spring Mill Rd. through Villanova
4.) Gulph Rd. from Villanova to KOP
5.) S Warner Rd through Wayne
6.) Upper Gulph Rd. through Wayne

During one rush hour, within 30 minutes I saw at least 50 cars race through River Rd. in Gladwyne to avoid 76. I'm sure the people who live around Philadelphia Country Club love the cut through traffic.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Forget the NIMBY's, any meaningful expansion of 76 would be a massive engineering effort.

With GPS on all of our mobile devices and smart navigation, congestion is not just limited to a highway on the edge of town, congestion is coming to the heart of these uber wealthy zip codes, whether they like it or not. Hundred's of people use these towns as back ways to avoid 76, 422, 476.

Some examples of roads that have up to half mile back ups or at least several lights that take several cycles just to get through
1.) Rt. 23 from Bala Cynwyd to Villanova.
-I've seen a 1-2 mile back up leading into West Conshy. I resorted to a back way to my back way driving on streets where there was not a house under $2.5 million.
-I've also seen several backups through Gladwyne
2.) Belmont Ave through Bala Cynwyd
3.) Spring Mill Rd. through Villanova
4.) Gulph Rd. from Villanova to KOP
5.) S Warner Rd through Wayne
6.) Upper Gulph Rd. through Wayne

During one rush hour, within 30 minutes I saw at least 50 cars race through River Rd. in Gladwyne to avoid 76. I'm sure the people who live around Philadelphia Country Club love the cut through traffic.

+1
Exactly

[Urbanthusiat]

New sports arena is coming to Wilmington

Wilmington will soon become home to a state-of-the art multi-purpose sports complex that will serve the community and professional athletes.

The new facility will sit on 8.9 acres of land near Route 13 and Garasches Lane. Wilmington Mayor Mike Purzycki made the announcement on Wednesday alongside officials representing the Philadelphia 76ers and the Buccini Pollin Group.

“The new sports facility will be among the finest in the country for a city our size,” said Purzycki who shared that the Delaware 87ers will play at the 140,000-square-foot complex bearing the name “76ers Fieldhouse.” The mayor added that it’s expected to be larger than the Chase Center.

The Delaware 87ers, an affiliate team of the Philadelphia 76ers have been using the University of Delaware’s sports complex since coming to the state in 2013. The move now allows the team to host 2,500 fans at the venue while helping thousands of underserved youth with new sports programming including basketball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, football and a host of other sport activities. Officials said the complex will be equipped with three full-sized, professional basketball courts, two indoor turf soccer fields, a world-class sports performance and athletic training area, as well as retail and office space.

More: https://whyy.org/articles/new-sports...ng-wilmington/

[Liam]

1974 highway is here: http://www.phillyroads.com/history/expwy-map_1974/

309 would have been extended down to roughly 5th and Girard, connecting to a Girard Expressway!

[Jawnadelphia]

Very nice to see this -- so B/P Group and 76ers team up in helping to develop, revitalize the other side of the Christina River.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...tor/898725001/

Plans for some sort of an arena near the Wilmington Riverfront has literally been talked about since the late 1990s, cool to finally see something happening.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

New sports arena is coming to Wilmington





More: https://whyy.org/articles/new-sports...ng-wilmington/

That sounds like great news for Wilmington! On top of that, Wilmington Aquatic Club is looking to build a 50 meter, Olympic sized pool on the river front near Christina Landing near A-street! These would definitely boost business here!

[jonesrmj]

Also, I know that probably most people won't care, but here is a picture of the tallest buildings in Wilmington, side-by-side, that I made:

[IMG]Tallest Buildings in Wilmington, Delaware by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Nomad9]

That field house looks awesome. Hopefully it spurs more development on that side of the river. Having the logo of a pro sports team on the building is pretty cool too.