London Roads

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Christ, I look forward to the day (if it ever comes) when there are more than two (2!!) clear east-west and north-south routes in the city. all we have currently are Fanshawe pk road and oxford (E-W), and Wonderland and Highbury (north-south).

Once the Bradley extensions are completed, there will be a third.

[ldoto]

On-street parking could come at a cost in summer

CITY HALL: Committee will discuss implementing a paid program during the season

A London politician wants city hall to consider allowing drivers to park overnight on city streets during the summer -- for a fee.

One year after a summertime pilot project let people leave their cars at the curb for free -- a plan scrapped during the 2010 budget talks -- Ward 13 Coun. Judy Bryant says the city should revisit the issue once again.

"As the city grows, there's going to be more pressure to have some kind of program for on-street parking," Bryant said Friday.

"It's just part of a growing city and becoming a mature city."

In London, on-street parking is banned from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m. Last summer's project lifted that restriction from June 16 to Sept. 7 -- costing the city an estimated $140,000 in ticket fines.

During budget deliberations, with councillors also considering free two-hour downtown parking on Saturdays and in December, the summertime exemption was scrapped.

But in a letter going to council's environment and transportation committee Monday, Bryant is asking for a staff report on starting a paid program for the summer months.

One possibility, she says, is offering dashboard passes for $5 or $10 nightly.

Some committee members, however, wonder whether such a plan is practical, considering people often don't plan to park overnight -- opting instead to do so after drinking.

"At a bar at 11 o'clock at night, where do you get the permit if you didn't plan ahead? From the bartender?" said Bud Polhill, who suggested selling a pass that would last all summer. Coun. Paul Hubert agrees with Bryant's point that overnight parking shouldn't be forgotten by council.

"To me, it's summer, it's festivals, it's not drinking and driving," Hubert said of the potential benefits. "If there's a way to have a parking pass program, I'll be looking at that with great care

[MolsonExport]

the city sprawls more than it grows (and the latter, by a considerably-less-than-whopping 4K per year)

[SlickFranky]

Originally Posted by ldoto

In London, on-street parking is banned from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m. Last summer's project lifted that restriction from June 16 to Sept. 7 -- costing the city an estimated $140,000 in ticket fines.

Yeah, that's the right way to look at the issue....ass-hats.

[Waterlooer]

I think london should have a local highway or some sort of rapid transit. It definably is successful in K/W. I cant imagine how people would be able to get around without it.

[MolsonExport]

We have the LTC. How is a highway successful in KW? Certainly not in terms of city beautification.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

We have the LTC. How is a highway successful in KW? Certainly not in terms of city beautification.

As much as I like the fact you can get close to the downtown area in Kitchener on an expressway, I also think London is overall a more attractive city than Kitchener. London's downtown has no shortage of problems, but we have Richmond Row, which I think is vibrant day and night, and is pedestrian-friendly. Last time I was in downtown Kitchener at night, it seemed pretty dead.

That said, driving from the west end of London to downtown during rush hour can take up to half an hour. For a city of London's size, that is pretty high.

[MolsonExport]

I agree (both counts). I also believe that, come a decade or so, that expressway in KW will be choked up like the 401 during rushhour, and they will be right back at square one with an ugly gash through the heart of the city.
London needs a ring road expressway, or at least some bypass on the north and west ends of town (e.g., north of sunningdale...but keep the zoning as is to alleviate sprawl; ditto for West del Bourne).

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I agree (both counts). I also believe that, come a decade or so, that expressway in KW will be choked up like the 401 during rushhour, and they will be right back at square one with an ugly gash through the heart of the city.
London needs a ring road expressway, or at least some bypass on the north and west ends of town (e.g., north of sunningdale...but keep the zoning as is to alleviate sprawl; ditto for West del Bourne).

I have long been in favour of a ring road, although I don't know when a west-end route will become necessary. I'd concentrate on getting Veterans' Memorial Parkway up to freeway standards first, and then getting a link across the north end of the city - although that will likely have to be, at least in part, in Middlesex Centre Township.

[Waterlooer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I agree (both counts). I also believe that, come a decade or so, that expressway in KW will be choked up like the 401 during rushhour, and they will be right back at square one with an ugly gash through the heart of the city.
London needs a ring road expressway, or at least some bypass on the north and west ends of town (e.g., north of sunningdale...but keep the zoning as is to alleviate sprawl; ditto for West del Bourne).

You're right, the expressway in K/W is already bumper to bumper with cars at rush hour. Were expanding highway 8 in kitchener as well as maybe highway 7/8 and highway 85, but we can only expand so much.

[Waterlooer]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

As much as I like the fact you can get close to the downtown area in Kitchener on an expressway, I also think London is overall a more attractive city than Kitchener. London's downtown has no shortage of problems, but we have Richmond Row, which I think is vibrant day and night, and is pedestrian-friendly. Last time I was in downtown Kitchener at night, it seemed pretty dead.

That said, driving from the west end of London to downtown during rush hour can take up to half an hour. For a city of London's size, that is pretty high.

You're right about downtown kitchener, its not the best place to go at night. I agree that London is more attractive. There fixing up king st. and all of downtown kitchener.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have long been in favour of a ring road, although I don't know when a west-end route will become necessary. I'd concentrate on getting Veterans' Memorial Parkway up to freeway standards first, and then getting a link across the north end of the city - although that will likely have to be, at least in part, in Middlesex Centre Township.

I know my family hates the 20-25 minute drive it takes from Wonderland road interchange to their home in Oakridge at rush hour. It adds alot to a trip.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I know my family hates the 20-25 minute drive it takes from Wonderland road interchange to their home in Oakridge at rush hour. It adds alot to a trip.

Yeah...just imagine trying to get to Masonville from the 401 or 402...I've seen Wonderland backed up at Springbank all the way back to almost Commissioners at rush hour. Oxford is even worse - I've seen it backed up from Wonderland to almost Cherryhill Mall. No accidents, just volume.

That said, even with expressways, Kitchener can get very backed up during rush hour. The second last time I was in Kitchener I was on King St around 5 PM, and it took forever to get out of downtown.

If I could turn back the clock, I would've built a ring road closer to the city centre back in the 1960s, with connections to the 401/402. Such a routing would likely have incorporated the existing expressway portion of Highbury Ave, with the route running close to both Fanshawe College and UWO.

[MolsonExport]

Highbury is a complete mystery. Two overpasses (Bradley/Commissioners) without lights, then some with lights (e.g., 401, which makes little sense)...the rest of the way, it is just another crappy arterial. Why did they even bother with the 3 kms or so of freeway?

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Highbury is a complete mystery. Two overpasses (Bradley/Commissioners) without lights, then some with lights (e.g., 401, which makes little sense)...the rest of the way, it is just another crappy arterial. Why did they even bother with the 3 kms or so of freeway?

Answer:

The Province built the freeway portion in the mid 60's as a connecting link between the new Hwy. #401 and what was then the south-east edge of the city. It was named Provincial Highway #126. It was constructed as a freeway due to the fact that "modern" post-war industrial development at the time was occurring in locations east of Highbury Ave in the area roughly bounded by Huron/Highbury/Clarke/Gore. This area was what would have been termed at the time a "blue-collar paradise" with huge modern factories such as Wolverine, Westinghouse (the current controversies didn't exist then), GM Diesel, and Firestone providing thousands and thousands of very good industrial jobs. This freeway was intended to get heavy industrial traffic from that burgeoning industrial area to the new 401. At the time, it was the right idea and served it's purpose for many years. At the time of initial construction there were no interchanges at Commissioners (built in the early 70's) or Bradley (built in 1989). The original interchange at Hwy. #401 was constructed as the standard cloverleaf of the day.

The interchanges at Bradley and Commissioners were constructed as parclo interchanges, introduced after problems with the then-standard clover leaf interchanges became apparent. Initial parclos were initially built as lower-traffic interchange separations between freeways and nominal two-lane roads (and are frequently seen on rural interchanges such as along Hwy. #402). Later on, modified parclos were introduced by the MTO in all sorts of urban applications and are used world-round. If traffic levels warrant it, signals are installed at the off-loading road for safety and traffic flow. As such, you see similar signalized situations at Wellington Road and Highbury Ave. In the GTA, they're everywhere.

As a post script, eventually Highway #126 became obsolete as the industrial link to Hwy. #401 it was intended to be. In the late "70's it was extended to St.Thomas - and is now primarily a commuter road. Oddly enough, another highway that was not constructed in the 60's - Provincial highway #100 - ended up being built in the 70's to replace the role of #126 just 5 kilometers to the east. Being a direct link to the airport and the same industrial area, it is the more proper highway to do the job that #126 was intended to do. In the Mike Harris Conservative years of the 90's, both Provincial highways were forcefully downloaded onto the City Of London (amongst dozens of other things). They became Highbury Avenue, and Airport Road - changed to Veteran's Memorial Parkway. Wisely, the City is putting all it can into the VMP as an essential link for some of the major employment purposes that highway #126 was intended to to 40 years ago.

The City is playing this one very smart.

[ldoto]

City officials will unveil Friday the $170,000 first step in enhancing the look of Veterans Memorial Parkway, a sign that’s part of a larger plan to develop an economic gateway.

Featuring a poppy and the road name on a rock “about the size of a room,” as one city official put it, was constructed over the winter on the road’s east side, just north of Hwy. 401, and will be formally unveiled Friday afternoon.

The project also included extensive tree planting — part of a larger plan to turn the road into a more significant gateway into London, said Andrew Macpherson, the city staffer handling the landscape efforts.

“It’s part of the bigger gateway plan that includes the airport,” which the city plans to expand and make a major cargo hub, he said.

“It’s quite a nice enhancement. (The parkway) will be, over time, one of the nicer entrances to the city.”

The second phase of the enhancement efforts — budgeted at $700,000 in infrastructure money, from all three levels of government combined — will involve extensive tree and shrub planting from the 401 to Oxford St.

There will ultimately be more than a dozen “features” added that are dedicated to military veterans.

The former Airport Rd. was renamed to honour military veterans in 2006.

[haljackey]

Transportation planning and growth maps:

Proposed BRT routes


Projected population growth to 2030


Traffic congestion- 2009


Living in the southwest end (Westmount), a BRT line from Westmount Mall is an ok idea, but that's old technology. LRT is the way to go, and that should be concentrated in higher density areas near the core.

Also Southdale and Commissioners roads need to be widened from 2-4 lanes between Wonderland and Warncliffe ASAP, Wonderland needs to be widened from 4-6 lanes the whole way in the foreseeable future and have an interchange with the 401 ASAP.

Elsewhere in the city:
-Eventually Wellington Road needs to be 6 lanes the whole way. It currently needs 6 without breaks from the 401 to Base Line Road.
-Richmond Street should be 6 lanes between Western and Fanshawe Park roads
-Western/Warncliffe roads should be 4 lanes the whole way. (new CP and CN rail underpasses)
-The VMP should be extended to Clarke road and have 4 lanes the whole way. VMP interchanges at Bradley and Hamilton roads would improve safety and traffic flow.
-A new bridge to link Riverside with King street would aid downtown access and a bridge between Windimere and Grainsbrough would help traffic flow in the west.
-Hyde Park Road should be 4 lanes and Sarnia road should be 4 lanes the whole way, including a new overpass at the CP rail line.
-Oxford street needs (a minimum of) 4 lanes from Byron to the airport.
-Fanshawe Park Road should have 4 lanes between Adelaide Street and Clarke Road
-Interchanges with the 401 and 402 with White Oak Road should be considered. White Oak will need 4 lanes soon as well.
-Bradley Road needs to be extended to Wonderland and be 4 lanes the whole way to the VMP.

For BRT to ever be effective, a downtown transit hub is needed. However I think BRT should be scrapped and LRT should be planned. No one likes buses.

I don't think LRT is a pipedream for London. Although we're below this supposed 600,000 population "threshold", our city does not have any freeways serving local traffic. I personally think this is a good thing because it shifts the focus towards transit from cars. Still a strong road network is very important to the economic vitality of the city. LRT planning and implementation from an urban economic development standpoint is probably the greatest idea for our city because it not only will it help our transit system, it will boost our "green" reputation nationally and around the world.

LRT, combined with a HSR (high speed rail) line along the Quebec-Windsor corridor will also boost the economic reputation of the region and alleviate congestion on the inter-city highways, railways, and airports.

This post is also on the Smartmoves Website:
http://www.smartmoveslondon.com/view...151&p=356#p356

[MolsonExport]

^nice graphs and information. Welcome to the forum.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^nice graphs and information. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks! I've been lurking here for a long time, just registered recently.

I actually have more to say regarding London's roads from a more regional perspective.

My vision for the long disputed London Ring Road:
-Red is what should go in. Dotted red are alternate routes and possible new routes. The current 402 route has been scribbled out.


This is just an idea of mine of where the 402 should have gone. In fact, the 402 was supposed to go through the city, not around it, but the city rejected all freeway plans. Most politicians consider London a small town, when in reality we're actually a pretty sizable city and the need for a freeway was always there.

London is the largest city in North America not to have a freeway serving local traffic, and these routes will at least help to partially serve local traffic.

St. Thomas is considered part of London's CMA, despite the relative isolation of the town to London compared with other CMAs (just look at K/W and the GTA, several cities in the urban area, not separated by several kilometers of farmland).
-There's been talk of an expressway or freeway to St. Thomas for some time. There isn't even a 4 lane road to connect these two "metro" cities together, just a few 2 lane rural roads.
-There's also a rail line between the two that goes straight from downtown London, yet trains haven't traveled on it for decades.


Regarding my freeway plan, there's a rumor that the MTO plans to extend the 403 from the 401 to connect to the 402 west of London. This will help reduce congestion on the 401 between the 402 and 403 and provide connections for areas north of London. Adding a freeway in west London and finishing the Veteran's Memorial Parkway will complete London's system.

See this map for what I mean about extending the 403 to the 402.
Map of proposed routes for southern Ontario:

[MolsonExport]

^neat. Wow, that proposed 402 looks like it passes close to my home (I live in Hyde Park)