Should we divide Canada Day into two separate events?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by jamincan

99% Invisible had a really good episode that they recently revised and reaired about Juan de Oñate, the "father" of New Mexico. There are a lot of parallels to the debate we are experiencing now about statues and the commemoration of people with tarnished histories.

I personally am not a fan of tearing down statues, but I am a proponent of re-contextualizing statues and memorials, whether officially on plaques, or unofficially as with Oñate's foot, or red paint on an SJAM statue. I also think that we ought to consider how we can create solemn commemorations of the residential school system. It is a stain on this countries history, and deserves a greater place in our national consciousness.

Is there the will by the leadership on either side to accomplish this? Of course, any commemoration would need to be led by the FNs. A federal contribution is obviously also needed.
I personally think this would provide healing and understanding, more so, than ripping down statues of imperfect people who also made tremendous positive contributions to our country.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think it is sending the opposite message, that woke white people are not serious people and don’t have a serious interest in addressing actual problems.

Laughable comment when it's exactly the whites who are conservative anti-woke who refuse to do anything to address systemic issues in Canada.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is going to get progressively worse as we allow more and more of Canada to be discredited.

I have zero issue with parts of Canada being discredited if those parts consist of racism, genocide, and a continued belief that these issues don't exist in our country. Unless you think we should continue to honour delightful people like SJAM and raise them up on literal pedestals.

A true shocker that the usual folks come into this thread and pretend that nothing's wrong in or with this country. Will check in next week when we exhume more Indigenous bodies somewhere out west. And yes, it is genocide, and pretending it's something else or splitting hairs over the definition shows that you care more about how things look rather than the actions that have actually occurred. I get that some of you can't come to grips with the fact that this country has actively killed people and designed a system to actively discriminate against groups but good grief the denial on display on this forum is something else.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You didn't provide the link, but I found it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng...t-are-you-quiz

I am as close to the centre of the spectrum as you can possibly get, right on the "x" axis, and one click to the right of the "y" axis.

I've always claimed to be a centrist, and by God I am a centrist!

I guess this is why I don't choose to suffer either left wing or right wing zealots. People should be free to have their own views without fear of being ridiculed or persecuted by either the Tea Party types or the Woketarians.

Just remember, politics is a lagging indicator, not a leading one.

Why? Well, it tends to be the domain of older types, both in the active part and the electorate.

Where the centre is society-wide? Harder to say, because Canada's demographic makeup has become more complex compared to the past. Bill Davis' Brampton of 1985 isn't Brampton of 2021, whereas New Brunswick of 1985 and 2021 are much closer, culturally speaking. This is a blindspot I'm not really in tune with.

The GTA's suburbs are where Canada is going. Are they more culturally conservative or liberal? More authoritarian or libertarian? I honestly don't know. You could make arguments for either.

We seem to be on the precipice of a big demographic shift. How does that shake out?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by thewave46

We seem to be on the precipice of a big demographic shift. How does that shake out?

Based on how the older white gen x-ers in this thread have been acting? Probably not great.

[CityTech]

It's not genocide.

Seriously leftists need to stop with this garbage tactic of stretching for the most extreme language possible to describe every problem. It cheapens the words and snacks of an attempt to shut down debate.

Additional examples aside from this is how every victim of sexual harrassment is a "survivor", every instance of racial bias is "white supremacy", or any right wing politician is "a fascist".

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by CityTech

It's not genocide.

You literally quoted Proud Boys in the past week as a positive reinforcement of your post. I haven't read anything beyond this.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Based on how the older white gen x-ers in this thread have been acting? Probably not great.

This board's opinionated members aside, I mean. I can make a case for the world being screwed if I cherry pick people that I interact with as standard-bearers for my thesis.

I hardly view this board as representative of Canada 2021 in all its facets.

Literally, Canada has changed in ways the so-called Greatest Generation would be appalled at. It did so relatively well. Not perfectly, but well.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by JHikka

You literally quoted Proud Boys in the past week as a positive reinforcement of your post. I haven't read anything beyond this.

Perfect case in point of leftist authoritarianism.

You can't create forced consensus by banning anything you don't want to hear.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Laughable comment when it's exactly the whites who are conservative anti-woke who refuse to do anything to address systemic issues in Canada.


I have zero issue with parts of Canada being discredited if those parts consist of racism, genocide, and a continued belief that these issues don't exist in our country. Unless you think we should continue to honour delightful people like SJAM and raise them up on literal pedestals.

A true shocker that the usual folks come into this thread and pretend that nothing's wrong in or with this country. Will check in next week when we exhume more Indigenous bodies somewhere out west. And yes, it is genocide, and pretending it's something else or splitting hairs over the definition shows that you care more about how things look rather than the actions that have actually occurred. I get that some of you can't come to grips with the fact that this country has actively killed people and designed a system to actively discriminate against groups but good grief the denial on display on this forum is something else.

Why should reconciliation be about discrediting everything about our country? This is where this is going. How does this take us to a better future and better partnerships? It doesn't.

We can acknowledge the negative aspects of our past which includes residential schools. There is a lot of blame to spread around, the system itself, but abuse and neglect was often a product of individual action as well, something that it is too late to redress. I don't argue for repressing information on what happened. On the contrary.

However, when we turn everything negative, do we gain any better understanding of our past? No. It all becomes skewed in a different direction based on political correctness. We start focusing on only one part of history and ignore the rest.

We all know that this country was founded on a policy of assimilation. You don't have to look at only indigenous populations, or even visible minorities. To a degree, commonality was necessary to forge a nation. We can argue that this was immoral. Not sure what the alternative would have been especially in the early days. But, what happened when this country was founded as the joining of English and French Canada was the beginnings of what has become a multi-cultural country. At the time, this was very progressive way to bring peoples together.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I hardly view this board as representative of Canada 2021 in all its facets.

Thankfully.

Originally Posted by CityTech

You can't create forced consensus by banning anything you don't want to hear.

The leader of Proud Boys inserted a dildo into his ass on live video because he wanted to 'own the libs' but sure, continue preaching to us on how supposed 'leftist authoritarians' are the crazy ones.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why should reconciliation be about discrediting everything about our country?

Because once you realize that this country is built and designed by colonial whites with the goal of assimilating the Indigenous and exploiting the immigrants will you come to the conclusion that operating this country in good faith with those partners cannot happen without discrediting many of the goals and ideas that this country is founded on. It was those goals and ideas that our original founders and Constitutional signatories had in Charlottetown, and what this country is currently built on. Just because SJAM was 'ok' for his time doesn't mean that his ideas and those that tolerated his ideas at the time don't still form the backbone of what built and made this country,and what led us to where we are today.

Mumilaaq Qaqqaq's recent statement touches on this conclusion:

Originally Posted by Mumilaaq Qaqqaq

Every time I’ve tried to make change, I’ve been blocked by a Liberal (or a Conservative) who smiles at me and condescendingly compliments my courage while they slam the door on me. Sometimes my work feels meaningless when those with power keep acknowledging that I’m right while they continue to do wrong themselves.

And so I’m calling on all my non-Indigenous allies: I urge you, put pressure on the federal government and the politicians who control it. Don’t let them get away with this anymore. They have the power. I want politicians who refuse to use their power to be bombarded by emails, phone calls and meetings with Canadians who will actually defend my right to live a safe life in Nunavut. So if you want to help, do something. Because the federal institutions certainly won’t.

...

More and more people across this country are waking up to something that Indigenous people have known for a long time: radical change is needed. It’s time for the federal institutions to give us the basic human rights that Nunavummiut were promised when Canada colonized the territory 70 years ago. And if they don’t give us what we’re owed, it’s time for all Canadians to show their outrage and demand it.

Originally Posted by Mumilaaq Qaqqaq

But the reality is that this institution, and the country, has been created off the backs, trauma and displacement of Indigenous people. Even if we’re told we should run, we still face huge barriers. Young people have been told they’re not experienced enough, not ready to lead. Women have been told to sit pretty and listen, disabled individuals have been shown they aren’t even worth the conversations, and Inuit kill themselves at the highest rate in the country. We are facing a suicide epidemic and this institution refuses to care.

During my time in this chamber, I have heard so many pretty words like reconciliation, diversity and inclusion. I have been called courageous, brave and strong by people outside of my party. But let me be honest—brutally honest: nice words with no action hurt when they are uttered by those with power over the federal institution (who) refuse to take action. There is nothing—nothing—to take pride in in the legacy this institution continues to not only maintain, but to build and fuel. People in power have choices, and they consistently choose priorities that uphold systems of oppression, leaving babies sick in moldy homes, parents missing their passed-on children, because these powerful individuals don’t think change is worth the money.

...

You see, Mr. Speaker, I don’t belong here. But my presence, I hope, is starting to crack the foundations of this very federal institution that started colonizing Inuit barely 70 years ago. I realized that this is difficult for some members to hear. But it’s the reality and the truth. This place was built on the oppression of Indigenous peoples. People like my grandfather, who were born and raised on the land, but forcibly relocated into settlement that was financed and built by the federal institution.

...

I will always fight for human rights of Indigenous peoples in Nunavut and across the country. I believe that we are living through a shift in this country where Canadians are starting to wake up to the reality. I’m looking forward to a time where people like me could belong here. A time we can be here. I hope another young or Inuuk or woman, or all three, will follow in my footsteps and continue pushing this institution to support Indigenous peoples in Canada. I have shown the nation and the world that impossible is possible, that hope can grow where it’s purposely put out and that if we work together and use our voices, we can influence real change.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/pol...gh-to-act.html

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...le-of-justice/

Thankfully, slow progess is being made. Just in the last week Tim Uppal apologized for his role in the Harper cabinet's plea to Islamophobia in 2015 and has urged that he and others in Parliament should and will do better, Trudeau recently announced the first Supreme Justice of colour (Mahmud Jamal) (a news story which i'm shocked hasn't come up on SSP), and Canadians are becoming more aware of the residential schools as more and more bodies are removed from the earth. We'll get there eventually, but it feels like it'll have to be another generation change before our reckoning with what actually makes Canada and what it represents arrives, likely in a Canada with a different demographic makeup than today.

[JHikka]

Since it's been reported on, I will note that I did not lock this thread and would not have posted had I known it was locked whilst I was making my last reply. I do not know who locked this thread.

Looks bad, but yeah.