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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2013, 7:41 AM
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i could see portland with a skytran

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfbUE5d1m50
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2013, 3:16 PM
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You jest, but for the price the Tram is a deal. It would be a good way to connect two sides of the river rather cheaply for infrastructure. The fact is we don't have a lot of room in the ROW in any of our corridors. Why not use a non-offensive above ground solution?
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Another image of a possibility for the corridor.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/10177486876/
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2013, 10:06 PM
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and have it go up north on 105th street all the way to sandy blvd.

or have it go down burnside. i like the 105th street more

i meant 102th street and have it look like this



that would connect the blue and green lines better

Last edited by dubu; Oct 14, 2013 at 3:59 AM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 11:49 PM
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i just thought of something, if ships dont go past the 205 bridge then this would be a better place to have a light rail bridge instead of i5.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2013, 8:14 PM
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Oregonian has an introductory survey for people living in East Portland concerning the Powell-Division Corridor.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._your_sto.html
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2013, 12:42 AM
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Not sure where else to put this. Idea by Jim Howell for an Eastside rail/bike corridor above the UP tracks.

http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/22/t...e-biking-97544
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2013, 12:55 AM
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As much as I love that idea, it kind of contradicts the new streetcar lines on the Eastside.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2013, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
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As much as I love that idea, it kind of contradicts the new streetcar lines on the Eastside.
Indeed.

Any idea of the cost to complete a project like this?
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2013, 2:24 AM
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I like the idea of this, but I will have to agree, it goes against the idea of the eastside streetcar and would make more sense to go with the existing system and rely on the streetcar to provide that connection between light rail lines on the inner eastside.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2013, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Shilo Rune 96 View Post
Indeed.

Any idea of the cost to complete a project like this?
No idea, but Jim said $200 mil. in the article.
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2013, 10:07 AM
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No idea, but Jim said $200 mil. in the article.
No way, it'd be a cool Billion. One of the many reasons it's never going to happen.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 8:34 PM
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This would be very good, and I suppose would impact any possible high-capacity transit project on Powell.

Mayor Charlie Hales says the city -- not ODOT -- needs to manage Powell Boulevard
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Unfortunately ODOT will not allow the city to do this, because Powell is considered a freight route. ODOT did offer Clackamas county a large cash offer to take ownership of highway 43 though, but Powell is much different.

My coworker's husband happens to work for Metro, and is working on this project! We talked at our Christmas party, and it sounds like it'll be BRT with limited right-of-ways, and maybe some special buses with higher capacity. He also emphasized how much people want to work on the Powell project, because they're frustrated from the opposition in Tigard.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Shilo Rune 96 View Post
Unfortunately ODOT will not allow the city to do this, because Powell is considered a freight route. ODOT did offer Clackamas county a large cash offer to take ownership of highway 43 though, but Powell is much different.

My coworker's husband happens to work for Metro, and is working on this project! We talked at our Christmas party, and it sounds like it'll be BRT with limited right-of-ways, and maybe some special buses with higher capacity. He also emphasized how much people want to work on the Powell project, because they're frustrated from the opposition in Tigard.
So basically not BRT at all, well not by world standards. If they are not going to go with MAX down Powell which I highly doubt they should at least go all out with the BRT.

Personally I would love to see a max line down Powell with wide sidewalks and one lane in each direction. Apartment buildings lining the street instead of the endless strip malls on Powell.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Shilo Rune 96 View Post
Unfortunately ODOT will not allow the city to do this, because Powell is considered a freight route. ODOT did offer Clackamas county a large cash offer to take ownership of highway 43 though, but Powell is much different.
I don't think it being a freight route makes any difference. The City owns, maintains, and controls many freight routes, such as Columbia Blvd, Lombard, and Greeley. Macadam Ave is not only a freight route, but a designated "oversized load" route and ODOT was eager to give that away. The question is how much ODOT will pay the City to take it (and all of its maintenance needs) away. ODOT didn't offer enough money for the City to accept the maintenance responsibility of Macadam Ave. I would think ODOT would offer up a decent sum of money or agree to support a federal or state grant to improve the facility in order to alleviate itself from ever improving that roadway.

While I understand everyone at TriMet and most at Metro believe it will be BRT, I think it's a mistake to do anything less than light rail. East Portland has grown substantially and still has more room to grow. In addition, it's filled with low income population that would benefit from fast frequent transit. If TriMet and Metro don't do light rail, they should expect increasingly expensive operating costs to serve that area with 50-person capacity buses. My two cents..
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 6:29 PM
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So basically not BRT at all, well not by world standards. If they are not going to go with MAX down Powell which I highly doubt they should at least go all out with the BRT.

Personally I would love to see a max line down Powell with wide sidewalks and one lane in each direction. Apartment buildings lining the street instead of the endless strip malls on Powell.
Given the wideness of Powell, two lanes either direction is still possible. It is possible the road diets on Division and Foster may move some traffic to Powell. The main limitation of a MAX (and BRT for that matter) is, as has been mentioned before, limited ROW near Fred Meyer, to which I suggested earlier:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/9657053996/

This would require a bridge across the UP tracks and some investment in that area, not to mention removal of some buildings.

The Powell-Division project at Metro finally has an area of the city where there would likely be much less resistance to, and greater demand for, LRT (compared to SW, and Milwaukie), and yet they seem to not even consider it at the outset. Their goal states "high demand in the near term," precluding LRT. If people want it, they'll need to organize.
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2013, 5:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hat View Post
Given the wideness of Powell, two lanes either direction is still possible. It is possible the road diets on Division and Foster may move some traffic to Powell. The main limitation of a MAX (and BRT for that matter) is, as has been mentioned before, limited ROW near Fred Meyer, to which I suggested earlier:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/9657053996/

This would require a bridge across the UP tracks and some investment in that area, not to mention removal of some buildings.

The Powell-Division project at Metro finally has an area of the city where there would likely be much less resistance to, and greater demand for, LRT (compared to SW, and Milwaukie), and yet they seem to not even consider it at the outset. Their goal states "high demand in the near term," precluding LRT. If people want it, they'll need to organize.
Two lanes would be tight from my perspective but I may be wrong on that. I think you presented a good idea for the situation in that photo but the MAX line would not be able to go down Rhone street without removing those houses and apartment building and then it would be be going down backyards and It would be a hard and awkward set up to go through. I just can not see the connection between Fred Meyer and Powell unless you cut through the park and basically took it out.

I have to say that is a tricking solution to merge into the orange tracks and there does not seem like any easy way besides a short tunnel that comes up on the side of the orange line tracks.
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2013, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
While I understand everyone at TriMet and most at Metro believe it will be BRT, I think it's a mistake to do anything less than light rail. East Portland has grown substantially and still has more room to grow. In addition, it's filled with low income population that would benefit from fast frequent transit. If TriMet and Metro don't do light rail, they should expect increasingly expensive operating costs to serve that area with 50-person capacity buses. My two cents..
There are buses that can hold more than fifty people if they to go with articulated options. 120-200 people per bus, depending on the model they go with. Frequency is more of a concern when it comes to operating costs if they use high capacity buses. Speed of the route could be improved over the existing 9 by only stopping at major transfer points and having ticket machines at the stations to allow multiple door boardings.
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2013, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by davehogan View Post
There are buses that can hold more than fifty people if they to go with articulated options. 120-200 people per bus, depending on the model they go with. Frequency is more of a concern when it comes to operating costs if they use high capacity buses. Speed of the route could be improved over the existing 9 by only stopping at major transfer points and having ticket machines at the stations to allow multiple door boardings.

I understand express buses work well, particularly in highway systems with their own ROW. This may be effective in outer Powell where ROW can be designated for transit. The central issue with inner Powell is 33rd on in. There is no way to expand the ROW here. Any type of vehicle with wheels will be stuck in traffic every day during peak hours when they are needed most, negating any real "express" or "rapid" designation.

BRT in East Portland on Division and Powell can connect to MAX on Powell at I205 or 82nd. We should be looking at a mix, and not rely solely on buses.
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