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  #861  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 8:53 PM
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Some of the improvements around Penn Sration, including a train hall on site 2...
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  #862  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 7:15 AM
SammyBaby SammyBaby is offline
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The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!
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  #863  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyBaby View Post
The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!

Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
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  #864  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
If they could do that, build a better MSG that utilizes a better public experience with the station, I'm all for it. I just hope we've got creative enough people to make it happen. At least the likelihood of the removal of the Hulu Theater would make for a marked improvement.
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  #865  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.
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  #866  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2021, 9:52 PM
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https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/mta-wa...ut-moving-msg/

MTA floats plans to get more light in Penn Station without moving MSG


By David Meyer
March 15, 2021


Quote:
Transit officials are mulling proposals to bring more light into Penn Station’s dreary corridors — without having to move Madison Square Garden, according to a new report.

MTA exec Janno Lieber presented two concepts on Friday to “city, state, community and advocacy leaders,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings. The concourses would be widened to make up for the lost capacity.

The other concept would keep the upper level in place but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area. Both revamps would transform the station’s blueprint into a grid, the report said.
Quote:
” You are lost in this enclosed box,” Lieber told the WSJ. “What we want to do in either version is to open it up.”

Lieber did not provide a cost estimate for either proposal, the Journal said. He told the paper any Penn Station revamp could be funded as part of the $30 billion Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel under the Hudson River.

Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, whose president told the WSJ the railroad is working to develop a “consensus master plan” for the station, which served 600,000 people daily before the COVID-19 pandemic.
Quote:
Critics say Cuomo’s “Empire Station Complex” project — which also includes plans for 10 new skyscrapers — is being pushed through without oversight from the city or state legislature, The Post reported over the weekend.

Instead, the project is advised by a 13-member “Community Advisory Committee” — the group that heard Lieber’s presentation last week. The project will not undergo ULURP, or Uniform Land Use Review Procedure — a standardized process for public review of projects in the city.

State Sen. Brad Hoylman (D-Manhattan) — who reps much of the area surrounding the station, but not the station itself — told The Post that he and other elected officials skipped Friday’s meeting “in solidarity with our local community boards.”

State senate leadership declined to include a $1.3 billion bond for the project in their proposed budget released over the weekend, Hoylman said — defying Gov. Cuomo’s wishes.

“ There hasn’t been sufficient transparency and communication by the state with the public and the surrounding community about it,” Hoylman said.

“We’re trying to put the brakes on it until the community fully weighs in. They have to come to us for the money. What it looks like is they’re trying to ram this through — pay for it first and come up with the details later.”
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  #867  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 4:37 AM
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Pic by me. Taken today.



Moynihan Station - 03-20-2021 by Christopher Estevez, on Flickr
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  #868  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.
MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.
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  #869  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.


It would have been fine actuallt, the train hall would have been where it is today. The arena was to go in the non-landmarked portion of the building, which will now hold some Facebook offices. There were no capacity issues, but the Dolans wanted some MSG signage on the 8th Avenue side, which officials were having no part of.























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“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
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  #870  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 9:17 PM
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50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.
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  #871  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2021, 8:50 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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i can see why a smaller train hall was not desired at the time, but now? and with msg out of the way opening things up? you wonder -- but you cannot replay history though.

as for that new msg, meh, the dolans could have been told to take it or leave it. a shame nobody had the stones.
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  #872  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 1:03 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.
This is incorrect as demonstrated above by NYguy's post. The annex is not part of the transit complex (above track level) and putting MSG in it would not have impacted the train hall.
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