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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 9:36 PM
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Awesome!
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 10:47 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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OOOOO looking good!
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2008, 4:52 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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I put this together awhile ago. I should probably update it, but I think it shows a nice commuter rail line that is possible - most the tracks are already there [yellow], except for adding a small extension to serve Kruse Way and hop over I-5. If you decided not to serve that area, there is an existing rail junction just to the south instead.





I'd also like to see some rapid transit lines inside the city of Portland. Powell or 39th avenue subways? Some of these main street corridors need to be ripped open for redevelopment. And some decent transit service.

Disclaimer: I was just in Seattle for a couple of days; I'd like for us to avoid the traffic problems they have. European cities tend to build lots of urban subways to move people around... Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco all offer excellent case studies of what to do/what not to do.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 7, 2008, 8:35 PM
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Metro's 1980 version (pre-Eastside MAX construction):
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  #25  
Old Posted May 8, 2008, 2:07 AM
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^Wow, plans haven't changed too much since then which was...gulp...before I was born.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 8, 2008, 12:47 PM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
^Wow, plans haven't changed too much since then which was...gulp...before I was born.
Sadly, the region is still working on one of the same projects started in the 1980's, namely the North/South corridor (Oregon City to Vancouver). Not much reason to start planning new routes until this vital corridor is approved/completed. That said, much of that corridor is looking promising for completion over the next 5-7 years and Metro has recently started a high-capacity transit working group to develop the next set of HCT plans. Perhaps we've finally reached the time to get the map updated..
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  #27  
Old Posted May 14, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Green and yellow lines south

Well, been a while since I made a map, but here's my shot at where I think the yellow and green lines ought to go: Oregon City! Plus an Orange(?) line branching off the yellow at Milwaukie to Lake Oswego.

Not one of my best maps, but it shows the vision:



Some notable things:

Oregon City is a topological challenge for transportation planners, with three different levels: Downtown, the lowest sits along the Willamette. The mid level rises above downtown and is separated from it by a series of hills and a steep bluff. The third section is uphill from the middle level and is referred to as the "Hilltop". This last section is mostly unconstrained by geography and is expanding and growing rapidly in density and population.

Green line: Would merge with the yellow in Gladstone and split at Abernethy Green. It would continue south on OR 213, the best route to the "Hilltop" area to a terminus at Clackamas Community College.

Yellow Line: At Abernethy Green, the MAX line would parallel, for the most part, the Union Pacific line, serving the existing Oregon City TC, the Oregon City Elevator (providing access to the Promenade atop the OC Bluff and mid-level Oregon City), the Willamette Falls viewpoint (access to the OC Historical Museum), and terminating in Canemah at a park-and-ride serving Canby commuters and Oregon City's South End.

Current TriMet bus service provides routes for OC-Gladstone-Clackamas Town Center and OC-Gladstone-Milwaukie-Portland travel. At Clackamas CC, there is a Park and Ride lot, and South Clackamas Transportation District buses provide a connection to Molalla. Canby Area Transit (CAT) connects to TriMet at the current Oregon City TC, and could connect at a Canemah station instead. Both lines terminating farther south could attract more riders utilizing the MAX to go to PDX, despite one or more transfers (2 from the yellow line to the green and red, and one from green to red), further lessening traffic congestion at PDX.

The Lake Oswego extension is based upon a Metro study I found elsewhere on SSP. It could end up mirroring a Portland Streetcar route along the Willamette Shore Trolley RoW, however, it could provide a cross-river connection that is lacking in the area. Also, considering the opposition many landowners are mounting along the projected Portland-Lake O streetcar alignment, a MAX extension across the Willamette would be a higher capacity link and much better than no rail service to Lake Oswego. I would assume the line would take its own color and continue along the currently proposed Portland-Milwaukie MAX alignment into downtown, maybe farther if a new extension branches off the projected lines one day.

I may have got some station names wrong on the map. Caught them later after the original was saved. oops!

I don't post too much here anymore, but I thought that I would share this with you. If you like, I may go further into detail and show some other areas in Portland that I think should be focused upon.
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Portland absolutely needs: MAX lines to the SW, Vancouver, Oregon City. New Willamette and Columbia bridges, and a new tallest!
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  #28  
Old Posted May 14, 2008, 4:38 PM
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Nice work, and seems well thought-out. Did you do this by any chance?
Quote:
Just wondering since the background map looks similar and it looks like it has the same Clackamas CC terminus for the Green Line. The above map is from this page at nycsubway.org.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 15, 2008, 1:01 PM
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You guys do some great work.

I wish I was competent with drawing software but I'm not unfortunately so I'll have to try to describe what I have in mind.

Vancouver-Washington County service (hybrid diesel commuter rail car with pantograph for electric service where available)

From Downtown Vancouver west to the Amtrack shed and then over the railroad bridge accross the Columbia. Two stops in N. Portland, one at Columbia Blvd with connecting bus service to Rivergate Industrial and one at Willamette Blvd. From there the line crosses the Willamette and enters a new tunnel which emerges west of the hills at the large vacant lot Cedar Mills.

Loop line-From there one branch goes East to Sunset TC and then South to Beaverton and onto the yellow south loop to LO and Clackamas Zilfondel has on his map. From this point it can go along the new line up 205 and accross the Columbia again and up to Mill Plain from where it can go back into downtown Vancouver.

Silicon Forest Branch- From Cedar Mill along the Sunset til it meets Cornell and then into the regional center being planned for Amberglenn. For many people this branch could save them a lot of time driving between Clark and Washington counties and make the Columbia Crossing less necessary.


additonal notes based on this idea. A line going from Downtown-Sunset TC-Cedar Mill-Cornell-Amberglenn-Hillsboro cutting travelling time for many.

Vancouver-Downtown Portland express service. After crossing the Willamette non-stop to Union Station and then service along the transit mall. Could be much faster than currently conceived MAX service.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 22, 2008, 9:26 AM
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@ForAteOh, yup that was mine. Before I came along, NYCSubway.org had nothing there about Portland! I also ran nwvirtualtransit.com for a while. But I have moved on to other things and I let it go by the wayside. No prob though, as NYC Subway has most of the same info on that site, but in a much more simplified manner.

I am working on several maps for you guys. Back in the day, I used to try to figure out where things ought to go: MAX, Streetcar, Commuter Rail, etc... It's about time that I jump into it again. I hope to show you all my updated maps of the full potential commuter rail, MAX, and Streetcar systems: What I hear are rumors, ones I think the region may need, and lines I incorporate from other plans that I like. Plus, a downtown subway concept, A plan for a well-utilized Union Station transit hub at the convergence of a revitalized Transit Mall, Old Town, and Pearl District, and a new long-distance rail station on the revitalized Eastside and Lloyd District.

I once dreamed of a Union Station brought back to relevance. With High-speed rail requiring a run purely on the eastside, that can't happen. But, a transit hub utilizing Union station as a WES-style, fully regional commuter station connecting to buses, subway MAX, and streetcar lines would bring some wonderful life into this old gem. Even if it means my dream of seeing sleek TGV or Shinkansen trains never calling upon the old depot, Union Station will be one of the hearts of my projected system and a vibrant new lease on life.
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Portland absolutely needs: MAX lines to the SW, Vancouver, Oregon City. New Willamette and Columbia bridges, and a new tallest!
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  #31  
Old Posted May 22, 2008, 9:09 PM
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I could see a bi-level tunnel under Broadway with a subway on the upper level and HSR on the lower level with a future MAX line SW along Barbur/I5.

MAX stops at Union Station, Burnside, Pioneer Square, PSU, Pill Hill (a la Zoo Station) and then above ground.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 22, 2008, 9:48 PM
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Bart and Muni share their underground tunnels. Muni (LRT) on the upper level and Bart (HRT) on the lower level. Appeared to work well on my recent visit to the Bay area.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 2:38 AM
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anybody else think it's time for Fred Hanson to go? Not that he hasn't done a good job with TriMet, but the agency is getting a little stale. I'd like to see some new, energized blood coming up with some innovative projects that can connect the community with the public transit. Now is the best time ever, being people are actually starting to ditch their cars and hoping onto the rails and buses.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 3:23 PM
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^ Nope. Fred Hanson is doing an awesome job. LRT under construction. LRT under SEIS review. LRT on the planning table. Expanding bus service. Contributing to Portland Streetcar. Efficiency upgrades. Etc... I'm for slow growth with our current funding sources, and Hanson has been doing well with what he's got. I would love to see him, or someone else in maybe Metro, Portland or State office push for an expanding funding program to get these transit packages moving faster.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 4:36 AM
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old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.

Hansen has done a lot right, and I agree there are many great things yet safe steps moving forward. I just wonder, could Portland get more, maybe not even with replacing him, but adding new blood in influencial positions close to him.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 5:28 AM
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I was shocked that there were so few express buses there for Portland. It's the easiest way to connect suburbs to major city centres/regional centres together. I would really want covert lanes of highways to HOV allowing faster traffic flow for buses and carpool users [not the usual 2+, but 3+ instead]. Create a network of express buses and highway express coaches [that are a little more comfortable than regular buses] and boom you'll have a network that can move people faster and more effective. Now that many Portland residents are more open to alternative forms of transportation, this would be a great start.

Tri-Met has been handling light rail very nicely though. =)

Not the best example but Vancouver's Highway Express Coaches

Photo captured by me


Photo captured by me


Credits to Bill Wong [small LED display in the front displays the next upcoming stop, connected to GPS]
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  #37  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 5:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.

Hansen has done a lot right, and I agree there are many great things yet safe steps moving forward. I just wonder, could Portland get more, maybe not even with replacing him, but adding new blood in influencial positions close to him.
huh? inefficient max service in dt? max was built thru dt long before hansen came along. commuter rail to bv instead of dt? along what particular alignment? that really seems like an unfair criticism. lack of express service - ok, i'll give you that. initial rejection of the streetcar? well, he supports it now. flip-flopping (how i hate that term) isn't necessarily a bad thing. uptick of crime? a crisis manufactured by the tribune. master plan? metro's working on one right now. from what i understand, rail planning starts at metro and once a corridor is chosen and construction is approved, it becomes trimet's responsibility.
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  #38  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 5:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.
You took the words right out of my mouth mark! As a daily bus rider on trimet I could go on for a while about the complaints and beefs I have about trimets attention, or lack of, towards bus service in general. I am totally 100% in favor of all things rail but not when it comes at the expense of the bus system.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 5:49 AM
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And no this isn't erik halstead
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  #40  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 11:14 AM
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I think you all should take a look at the Transit Investment Plan (www.trimet.org/tip), which is updated annually. It has a relatively short (five-year) planning horizon and a set of four priorities - build the total transit system; expand high-capacity transit; expand frequent service bus lines, and; improve local service. The only thing they haven't been doing much of lately is improving local service, because the suburbs continue to experience low densities, poor urban form and street connectivity, and thus, are too costly to serve compared with other service enhancements closer in. Enhancing trunk line service, such as Line 57 through Washington County, is the best way to add service hours in places like that.

Given the fiscal constraints caused by increasing demand and cost of LIFT service (which is mandated by federal government), rising cost of fuel, and dealing with mechanics' and operators' unions, I think TriMet is doing quite well.

As for light rail, when it is added to a corridor, there is usually bus service enhancements that go with it, along with a steady commitment to maintaining frequent service on the MAX route. For example, a MAX line to Milwaukie would shift bus service enhancements further south, to OC and Clackamas County College, feeding into the Milwaukie line. Later this year and next, TriMet will increase feeder bus service to commuter rail and the I-205 Green Line, respectively. In the meantime, TriMet also continues to add service to increasingly busy routes on the inner eastside, such as Belmont and Division.

All the while, TriMet is maintaining service throughout the region, adding more frequent service lines, adding bus shelters, replacing 50 older buses a year with new low-floor buses, and adding automated stop announcements and displays to each bus line in the next couple years (I've noticed them on Line 75, which I use regularly).

In terms of efficiencies, TriMet bus planners are constantly pushing through efficiency improvements by consolidating stops that are too close, resulting in improved travel times and reliability. As for MAX service downtown, that's been around for 20 years and makes absolutely no sense to keep as is. It's a difficult discussion to have since some property owners will get less direct access to regional light rail than they have been getting all these years. However, as experienced by my friends, there is increasing reluctance for some people who work on the westside to live in the mundane westside suburbs, and thus must commute through downtown, not to downtown.

As for express bus service, MAX is the express service in most corridors. There's plenty of express bus service elsewhere, such as service in inner eastside (express lines to Lloyd-74 and Marquam Hill-64, 65, 66), southwest cities (92 on Beaverton Hillsdale, 94 on Barbur, 96 on I-5), and Clackamas County (McLoughlin-99). This is a fairly compact region. It doesn't make much sense to add express service in many more places, does it?

Lastly, I noticed a complaint that TriMet was reluctant to go with streetcar initially. I think the reluctance still exists. The high capital costs of fixed rail makes sense for high-capacity, faster service corridors. From the last time I rode the streetcar, it didn't seem high capacity OR high speed. In fact, it's the slowest damn people mover one could ask for. I applaud TriMet's reluctance to spend regional dollars on a development tool that will benefit a select few. Rather, that money should come from local property taxes for property owners who can claim the urban amenity for their gentrification/higher density development efforts.

The only major complaint I have with TriMet is their inattention to modern payment methods/systems. It's about time we moved to a cashless system where every rider can pay with cash cards that are simply swiped as people enter bus or max. It can save time and make riding less onerous to new riders. Last I heard, this is still 6-8 years away here.
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