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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2007, 4:30 PM
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Vancouver has chance to speak out on rail

Each of the two potential paths would affect a number of neighborhoods

Wednesday, July 18, 2007
ALLAN BRETTMAN The Oregonian Staff

VANCOUVER -- Jack Harroun has watched the unfolding Columbia River Crossing project closer than most.

As co-chairman of the Hough Neighborhood Association, Harroun is especially interested in one aspect of the project that could change forever his neighborhood and several of those nearby.

At this point, Harroun says, "The jury's out."

Project officials are examining two potential paths for a rapid transit line that would cross the Columbia River to downtown Vancouver and either run on the east side of Interstate 5 or follow a route to Main Street and part of Broadway. Both proposed lines would end at or near Kiggins Bowl on Main Street north of 39th Street.

While several aspects have not been decided, project officials made clear to the Vancouver City Council on Monday night that the two routes are key components of current planning.

The Interstate option would travel along McLoughlin Boulevard and would include a park-and-ride lot at Clark College as well as a park-and-ride lot near Kiggins Bowl.

The Main Street line would end at a station between 39th and 40th streets. Plans call for either a 1,500-space surface parking lot on a 10-acre site owned by the Washington Department of Transportation or a 2,500-space parking garage on the site.

Neighborhood associations, as well as residents, will play an important role in refining proposals until December, when a staff recommendation is expected to be made, said Kris Strickler, deputy project director.

The staff recommendation will address details such as what type of bridge should be built, what type of rapid transit should be included, and where the rapid transit route should travel.

A draft environmental impact statement is expected to be prepared by February. Crossing officials hope to have a final decision accepted by eight public agencies by next June.
The proposed transit lines would affect about 10 neighborhood associations, particularly those in the older west side of town.

Harroun said he is concerned how a Main Street rapid transit line through Uptown Village -- the area between McLoughlin and Fourth Plain Boulevard -- would affect businesses.

But Richard Murray, president of the Carter Park Neighborhood Association, said the disruption to businesses would be a worthwhile price to pay for rapid transit near the neighborhood.

"I'm all for it on Main Street," Murray said. "I don't want to see it on the Interstate's east side because I don't want to walk across the interstate to get to light rail."

Harroun and Murray both praised the project's public outreach.

But two other neighborhood associations near the possible transit line gave low marks to the outreach.

Anne McEnerny-Ogle, chairwoman of the Shumway Neighborhood Association, said she recently could not find any business owner near 39th and Main streets aware of a potential Main Street transit line and park-and-ride lot.

The Lincoln Neighborhood Association, meanwhile, sent a letter to several crossing project officials opposing the park-and-ride on the Department of Transportation property.

But if the park-and-ride is at that site, "it must have vehicle access only from Main Street and must dedicate at least one third of the property to a neighborhood park," the letter says.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2007, 4:48 PM
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  #43  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2007, 1:30 AM
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I agree, it's better for the light rail to stop at Main St and 39 St instead of east side of I-5 (would be stupid pick lol), but oh come on, next June? Take too long...
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2007, 11:38 PM
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Here's a link to a Google map I've been piecing together with information gathered from public sources.

http://tinyurl.com/3dhtum
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 3:37 PM
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Welcome tefen, and nice work on the map!
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  #46  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:17 PM
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Welcome tefen, and nice work on the map!
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  #47  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2007, 5:18 PM
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We don't need the new columbia crossing, nor does vancouver need light rail.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2007, 5:51 PM
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Something needs to be done about that corridor. In 20 years i5 from lake o to vancouver will be nothing but a parking lot for most of the day
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  #49  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2007, 7:16 PM
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i think, even though i have some sympathy for the argument that portlanders shouldn't pay for vancouverites to have an easy commute to the city, that something needs to be done. in the afternoon, NB I-5 backs up from the interstate bridge all the way past downtown and up to around the terwilliger curves. give it 10 ten years and backups all the way to wilsonville will be common. that kind of nullifies the advantage of a reverse commute for those of us living downtown and working out in the soulless suburbs. inbound 26 gets backed up fairly often as well in the afternoons; i'll bet it's all part of the same mess.

oh of course if there was any political will to build max down barbur or I-5 south, that would be a better choice. why it's given so little emphasis i don't understand.

i was going to post a link on here, but it's already gone... Metro's JPACT (joint policy area (?) committee on transportation) is the one that makes all these strategic decisions. their agendas and minutes are posted here. recently, they had a 50-page compendium of their wishlist of projects (both road and transit) for their 2035 plan. unfortunately, the link now leads to a 404. but if it starts working again, it makes for some interesting reading. for one thing, for the jack bogs of the world, only about the last 5 pages listed transit projects; the rest were for roads. the one road project i'd never heard of before is burial of 224 through milwaukie. i assume that means open cut, but it's only got a one-sentence description. re: transit, they list commuter rail projects to salem by 2014, as well as mcminnville and st helens a few years later. lrt projects include powell to 205, forest grove, barbur, a red line extension from quatama to amberglen, blue line from gresham to mhcc, various ways of extending the green/orange lines south to oregon city, and routes into vantucky. also, some brt lines. hopefully they'll re-post it soon.

oh yeah, tefen, thanks for the map, i was having trouble picturing where all these options are supposed to go. what is the "kellog bowl" anyway? a bowling alley? or an ampitheater?

Last edited by bvpcvm; Jul 28, 2007 at 7:24 PM.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2007, 9:15 PM
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what is the "kellog bowl" anyway? a bowling alley? or an ampitheater?
Kellog bowl? You mean Kiggins Bowl? I believe that could be the football field, quite like a stadium, behind the Discovery Middle School, while the Kiggins Bowl is right behind Discovery Middle School on the map.

I do support light rail on Vancouver because too many people get on the city bus to Portland, while the light rail in Portland are near the Jantzen Beach. I don't know if redevelop the bridge would be necessary, but the light rail is the one we need.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 12:00 AM
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Reality check..........Vancouver will not get Light Rail in the near term, or maybe never at all. Clark County had the oppertunity in the 90's, when the project was financially feasible, but crash and burned under the guidance of Vancouver's visionary Mayor Royce and his Redneck "Anti Portland Crusade" Clark County followers. Current estimate show that 6-8 BILLION is needed to construct a new bridge in TODAYS dollars. Who is going to pay for it???? A $4-6 dollar bridge toll? I believe the cost is beyond reach, especially 6-10 years down the road when this project could be seriously studied. The money needed to pay for the Oregon portion ($3-4 billion) of the bridge, could finance a lions share of: all Downtown Bridge repairs, bring light rail to Oregon City, Salem, Tigard, Forest Grove, new I-205 West Linn - OC Bridge, and Streetcar expansion to the East Side of the Willamette River instead. I am not against light rail going to Washington, but you folks up their are going to have to open up your own wallets and pay for it yourselves with no Oregon financing! Good luck.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 1:56 AM
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My reality check:

-The majority of the funds for light rail would come from the Feds rather than Oregon or Washington. (60% of the green line came from the Feds according to this article http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=1251)

- The influx of new people into Clark Co (especially Vancouver) and the changing perceptions of mass transit have made light rail a much more popular idea than it was 10 years ago.

-It behooves both Oregon and Washington to to expand light rail, and the us vs them fingerpointing does nothing to further the cause.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 2:53 AM
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My reality check:

-The majority of the funds for light rail would come from the Feds rather than Oregon or Washington. (60% of the green line came from the Feds according to this article http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=1251)

- The influx of new people into Clark Co (especially Vancouver) and the changing perceptions of mass transit have made light rail a much more popular idea than it was 10 years ago.

-It behooves both Oregon and Washington to to expand light rail, and the us vs them fingerpointing does nothing to further the cause.

No finger pointing .....just discussion
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  #54  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 11:03 AM
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We don't need the new columbia crossing, nor does vancouver need light rail.
I agree. we also don't need electricity, clean running water or air to breathe. in fact, who needs washington. let's build a wall instead and keep our two states apart. let's forget about our future and encourage pollution, sprawl and congestion! let's party! let's stick our heads in the ground and ignore all our problems. it'll be awesome!
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  #55  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew-Ski View Post
Reality check..........Vancouver will not get Light Rail in the near term, or maybe never at all. Clark County had the oppertunity in the 90's, when the project was financially feasible, but crash and burned under the guidance of Vancouver's visionary Mayor Royce and his Redneck "Anti Portland Crusade" Clark County followers. Current estimate show that 6-8 BILLION is needed to construct a new bridge in TODAYS dollars. Who is going to pay for it???? A $4-6 dollar bridge toll? I believe the cost is beyond reach, especially 6-10 years down the road when this project could be seriously studied. The money needed to pay for the Oregon portion ($3-4 billion) of the bridge, could finance a lions share of: all Downtown Bridge repairs, bring light rail to Oregon City, Salem, Tigard, Forest Grove, new I-205 West Linn - OC Bridge, and Streetcar expansion to the East Side of the Willamette River instead. I am not against light rail going to Washington, but you folks up their are going to have to open up your own wallets and pay for it yourselves with no Oregon financing! Good luck.
6-8 Billion? Why so much? I think the new Tacoma Narrows cost something like 850 million. Seems like you could go under the river for less than that.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2007, 11:38 PM
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I agree. we also don't need electricity, clean running water or air to breathe. in fact, who needs washington. let's build a wall instead and keep our two states apart. let's forget about our future and encourage pollution, sprawl and congestion! let's party! let's stick our heads in the ground and ignore all our problems. it'll be awesome!
No, you're forcing a portland ideal on vancouverites. It doesn't work.

They obviously don't want it, so why force the issue?
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  #57  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew-Ski View Post
Reality check..........Vancouver will not get Light Rail in the near term, or maybe never at all. Clark County had the oppertunity in the 90's, when the project was financially feasible, but crash and burned under the guidance of Vancouver's visionary Mayor Royce and his Redneck "Anti Portland Crusade" Clark County followers. Current estimate show that 6-8 BILLION is needed to construct a new bridge in TODAYS dollars. Who is going to pay for it???? A $4-6 dollar bridge toll? I believe the cost is beyond reach, especially 6-10 years down the road when this project could be seriously studied. The money needed to pay for the Oregon portion ($3-4 billion) of the bridge, could finance a lions share of: all Downtown Bridge repairs, bring light rail to Oregon City, Salem, Tigard, Forest Grove, new I-205 West Linn - OC Bridge, and Streetcar expansion to the East Side of the Willamette River instead. I am not against light rail going to Washington, but you folks up their are going to have to open up your own wallets and pay for it yourselves with no Oregon financing! Good luck.

All you type a big paragraph while I have only one answer for you. Everyone pay for it. Look at the taxes that you are spending. And what's more, developing the light rail doesn't make Vancouver a "anti-Portland", we are just giving the Portland more people to make Portland's ecomonic going up.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2007, 3:07 PM
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Drew-Ski, keep in mind that $6 Billion is also for improvements from the Rose Quarter to past the SR500 interchange, plus light rail, plus pedestrian and bicycle access, plus land acquisition. The actual bridge with no frills is only about a billion, so you will see something in between those numbers. I'd also expect the feds and each state to chip in at least 3/4 of the total cost leaving tolls at about $3 a trip, which I think is appropriate, less if they toll the 205 bridge too.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2007, 7:10 PM
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I hope the process speeds up for CRC pretty soon. It seems like they're dragging their feet on this...it should be one of the regions top priorities and the longer it takes to get the ball rolling the more expensive it will become and the likelihood of it not happening at all becomes greater
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  #60  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2007, 8:24 AM
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If we were smart, we'd get MAX, streamlines Cascades service between Portland & Seattle on a double-tracked bridge, bike lanes, and commuter rail to Vancouver, in addition to highway widening.

Then people wouldn't really be able to complain about the traffic, as they'd have real options.
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