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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 11:49 PM
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^^
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What? The bridge will only have a single 12' ped+bike way?
The City of Portland has listed a 20' wide minimum if there is to be only one ped/bicycle lane across the bridge as a parameter for accepting the LPA. 12' for each side if two.

^
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From all those people walking to the south eastside industrial area?
Yes. With the congruence of the Springwater trail, Eastbank Esplanade, Clinton and Lincoln bike boulevards, and a potential new connector along the MAX tracks from the river to 17th Avenue (as mentioned also in the LPA decision).
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NJD View Post
Yes. With the congruence of the Springwater trail, Eastbank Esplanade, Clinton and Lincoln bike boulevards, and a potential new connector along the MAX tracks from the river to 17th Avenue (as mentioned also in the LPA decision).
I would only ever walk through there grudgingly...

The Eastbank Esplanade will never be a generally attractive place to walk until they do something about I-5 and the Marqam Bridge.
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 3:39 PM
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I think it's 12' on both sides?
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 10:42 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Originally Posted by JordanL View Post
From all those people walking to the south eastside industrial area?
You clearly haven't been down there when its busy. Last Saturday it took me almost 45 minutes just to walk across the Hawthorne bridge, because there were so many people.

They should have 12' pedestrian + 12' bicycle (eastbound) + 12' bicycle (westbound) at a minimum.


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Originally Posted by JordanL View Post
I would only ever walk through there grudgingly...

The Eastbank Esplanade will never be a generally attractive place to walk until they do something about I-5 and the Marqam Bridge.
Ten's of thousands of people use the Eastband Esplanade everyday. You don't have to, but that doesn't mean it is not used.
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 7:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zilfondel View Post
You clearly haven't been down there when its busy. Last Saturday it took me almost 45 minutes just to walk across the Hawthorne bridge, because there were so many people.
I take the Hawthorne bridge every day, however the Hawthorne Bridge dumps right into Tom McCall Waterfront Park, not a development area a mile south boxed in by the Marqam and Ross Island bridges.

Unless it's not crossing at the south waterfront.

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Ten's of thousands of people use the Eastband Esplanade everyday. You don't have to, but that doesn't mean it is not used.
So somewhere on the order of 4-10% of the population of Portland uses the Easbank Esplanade everyday? Seeing as Trimet doesn't crack 20% on a busy day, I'm gonna have to say bullshit.

(And are you really trying to tell me you don't think that the construction and zoning around and of I-5 on the east bank impedes foot traffic?)

And for the record, my name is in the original pamphlet for the Eastbank Esplanade that Vera Katz had. She didn't even ask to use my name.
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2008, 10:08 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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(And are you really trying to tell me you don't think that the construction and zoning around and of I-5 on the east bank impedes foot traffic?)
No, I'm saying quite the opposite: many people have to walk all the way up to the Hawthorne Bridge because you cannot cross at the Marquam or Morrison bridges. So, in fact, a new crossing would likely be a draw for additional people to cross the river by foot or bicycle, as it would be closer and more convenient than walking a 1/2 mile out of your way.

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So somewhere on the order of 4-10% of the population of Portland uses the Easbank Esplanade everyday? Seeing as Trimet doesn't crack 20% on a busy day, I'm gonna have to say bullshit.
I do not know precisely how many people are using it; my point is that during the busy times of day it can be extremely crowded and "congested" by pedestrians and cyclists. Since the Hawthorne bridge has 2x10' sidewalks, it would seem prudent that this new bridge have larger ones, to accommodate Portland's increasing population.

For instance, ped & bike traffic on the bridges is increasing exponentially.


also...

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More than five percent of city residents report that they usually bicycle to work. For those who do not use a bicycle as their primary means of transportation, another 9% report the bicycle as the "other mode" they use instead of their primary mode. While rates of bicycle use vary across the city, both for primary and secondary use, we see that approximately 14% of city residents reported using a bicycle for commuting in 2006. This is a significant increase from the reported 11.4% reported as recently as 2004.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2008, 12:56 AM
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14% percent, just another reason why I love this damn city.
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2008, 8:49 AM
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Like A Bridge Over .....

Here's a little more about the Milwaukee light rail bridge designs......they've narrowed it down a bit, but nothing definite. Check out the link to the cable-stayed design about half way down the page; it has some great examples of actual bridges of this design, which LOOKS the best, imo.

http://www.portlandspaces.net/blog/t...ies-for-bridge
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Nice to see the Burnside Blog alive again. I love the cable-stayed option as well. It reminds me of the new Bob Kerrey bridge in Omaha. This type of bridge is very emblematic of the current style of bridge building. It would be a nice addition.
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2008, 2:34 AM
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Just discovered Trimet's more organized, complete website on the south corridor project. Not sure how long its been there but here it is: http://www.trimet.org/pm/
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 3:55 PM
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Just discovered Trimet's more organized, complete website on the south corridor project. Not sure how long its been there but here it is: http://www.trimet.org/pm/

Great find! That has to be new, I was just on the Trimet site looking for info and it was pretty lacking. Though I noticed the openning date has moved out about 3 years (or is that my mistake). I thought it was 2012 not 2015. But with things in the world the way they are I am happy that is still in progress!
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 10:16 AM
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Not 2012. The original completion date was 2013, then 2014, but that was never carved in stone (obviously). The timetable now seems a little more realistic.
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 9:30 AM
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Cable Stay vs. Wave Design

The two choices for the new Willamette bridge (Milwaukee) are the Cable Stay, and the Wave design. More concept info from the committee will be coming out this thurs for the public to view.

Get 'er done!!!!!! Which would you choose from what you see so far, and are you for this project in general?







http://www.portlandspaces.net/blog/t...rk-in-the-road
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 5:11 PM
IanofCascadia IanofCascadia is offline
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Personally, I much prefer the cable-stayed design (the engineer in me has always gotta come for things like this) but I admit that I think the design should be tweaked a little. Portland's first non-automotive bridge should be domineering and prominent, not something that looks like it was designed to "fit in". To me, the beauty of something such as a major bridge should be in the synergy of the engineering and aesthetics. I say make it proud.
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 5:45 PM
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the bridge in Rotterdam come always comes to mind. They took the cable stay bridge and made something unique out of it, rather than just another cable stay bridge.
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 6:15 PM
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^^^^
Agreed. Cable-stayed doesn't have to look like the same old-same old. Every major city has one. Take the Rotterdam example and make it unique and distinguishable from the others.
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 6:54 PM
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I also prefer the idea of a customized cable stay design. And I'm not too keen on the idea of using the Marquam as a contextual landmark, "background bridge" or not. I'm holding out hope that in the not-too-distant future it will go Ross Island-new bridge-Hawthorne, and that horizon hogging monstrosity will be gone.
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 1:40 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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I want the wave-form, actually. I like its low profile as compared to the hills...
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 2:58 AM
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Aesthetically, I like the cable-stayed more. The detail of the cables provides a nice modern contrast to the sleek towers of the South Waterfront. Then there's the cost.. The wave-frame is an untested and structurally more complicated design that will most likely lead to cost overruns and project delays. I appreciate good design as much as the next skyscraper forum nut, but I'd rather have the difference in cost put toward better service on the new light rail line and jumpstarting TODs at each of the station areas by acquiring land for new high density developments. Sorry for being pragmatic..
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 11:21 AM
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I also love the wave form bridge, but it would be overwhelmed by the Marquam. Since the Marquam is unfortunately with us for the next 50-100 years, I'd rather have a design that would diminish the Marquam as much as possible. A cable-stayed bridge right next to it would do that. But it has to be unique, otherwise it will look like any other city's bridge.
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