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  #41  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 2:49 AM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
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Originally Posted by OutrageousJ View Post
I really hope Tri-met does the project correctly, and makes the alignment as fast as possible (fewer stations, more grade separated, etc.)
This alignment will likely be fairly fast. The Harbor Drive and Harold Ave stations will not be cost effective and will probably be removed from the station list while the City of Milwaukie is against the Main St. alignment (resulting in one less station and a grade separated alignment in that area) in the North Industrial area and citizens there have voiced preference for only one station in downtown Milwaukie (which is all it really needs). Also, the only way to extend south of Milwaukie will be a grade-separated alignment because ODOT refuses to allow an at-grade crossing of McLoughlin Blvd. Thus, all the cards are in favor of a faster alignment. The downside however (as I'm sure we've all heard), is that the alignment will be quite costly. TriMet probably can't afford to extend the alignment to Park Ave, so the crux of this project lies with the City of Milwaukie and whether or not they'll support it ending in downtown Milwaukie (resulting in more park-and-ride traffic in their sleepy town). If any of you live in or around Milwaukie and you want this project to happen, you best be speaking up NOW!
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  #42  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
please not the concrete segmented bridge...that is so much the Portland way though.
Initially I agreed with you that the concrete segmental bridge was not the way to go, that we should spend more money on a more architecturally significant bridge. However, my initial reaction doesn't jive with the context of this bridge. There are tall buildings in South Waterfront, there are bridges close by on either side of this alignment, and there's a scenic horizon to the east. This bridge would be competing visually with too many things. I think the CRC bridge is more fitting for an architecturally significant design because it stands out and can be viewed from all around, whereas this bridge is in a crowded setting already. Of course the CRC bridge is limited in height because of the airport nearby.. that's a whole other issue though..
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  #43  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 4:39 AM
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The CRC, if built, will be an architecturally bunk bridge. It will be functional and that is it.

A stunning bridge next to the Marquam (and let's all admit it is here to stay for MANY years) is needed in DT Portland. I have yet to see that the cost of a suspension bridge is actually that much more expensive than a box girder bridge. And if it is, I think a discussion at the point is necessary.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 7:50 AM
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I say "go go go" and "rah rah rah", let's do something fantastic and leave an aesthetic legacy. Enough with the mediocrity - that's what places like Alabama are for. We are a Pacific Rim city, let's reach for the stars!

I'm sure we can have our cake and eat it too - some kind of sensible balance to build a striking structure, but preserving the majesty of the surrounding area. If San Francisco and Boston can do it, so can we!
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  #45  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 4:21 PM
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More stuff from the SDEIS (Metro)

Here are the actual cost estimates. From: http://www.metro-region.org/index.cf...y.web/id=27496 Notice how much inflation is effecting this project...


Here are several excerpts from the Lake O-Portland Streetcar alternatives evaluation summary with some interesting info about the Milwaukie MAX project... from: http://www.metro-region.org/files/pl...ec_sum_web.pdf
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  #46  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 6:43 PM
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Cable-stayed! CABLE-STAYED!
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  #47  
Old Posted May 15, 2008, 5:06 AM
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Originally Posted by philopdx View Post
I say "go go go" and "rah rah rah", let's do something fantastic and leave an aesthetic legacy. Enough with the mediocrity - that's what places like Alabama are for.

You’re right on the money with that comment. Wait.. uhh, well… maybe we could check our sources? You should check out these links to reports published by some of the most globally renowned companies: Forbes, CNN, and Expansion Management Corporation.
No hard feelings though.. just sticking up for my home


#1: Mobile, AL - America's 10 Fastest-Growing Large And Small Metros
(note that Mobile is number one in BOTH lists)


#4: Huntsville, AL - America's 10 Fastest-Growing Large And Small Metros


#6: Auburn, AL - America's 10 Fastest-Growing Large And Small Metros


#3: Birmingham, AL - Top 10 Fastest Growing Real Estate Markets


# 5: Montgomery, AL - Top 10 Cities For Investment Opportunities


#7: Mobile, AL - Top 10 Cities For Investment Opportunities


#10: State of Alabama - Top 10 States For Starting a Business


Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville AL - America's 50 "Hottest" Cities


#75: Hoover, AL - Top 100 Best Places to Live


#86: Huntsville, AL - Top 100 Best Places to Live


#96: Daphne, AL - Top 100 Best Places to Live


#8: Daphne, AL - Top 400 Strongest Micropolitan Economies in U.S. (2006)


I could go on and on, with more reports about our economy but you probably aren't interested. I would be suprised if anyone even looks at these reports at all... but its worth a try.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 15, 2008, 3:43 PM
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^ it was an ignorant statement..don't worry about it.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 2:17 AM
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And besides, it was architectural commentary, not economic.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 2:44 AM
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why post a bunch of top this or that lists? Doesn't show much more than insecurity.

Post pics and show us why someone's comments are off the mark, instead of a bunch of meaningless lists of accolades.

Portland has quiet a few top this or that lists too...and for things like livability, greenieness, open space, bike commuting, LEED buildings, alternative energy usage per capita, best micro brews, and such. I couldn't care less if you have the fastest growing metro. Chandler, Arizona for many years was the fastest growing city over 100,000 and I can attest, nothing of great interest was going up there.

oh, and all those top 100 places to live...well, Hoover, Huntsville, and Daphne, were behind gems like, charming Layton, UT at 41, stunning Livermore, CA at 31, breathtaking Henderson, NV at 20, and let's not forget, one of the most desirable places to live, even in the top ten, Sugar Land, TX, at NUMBER THREE...you might even run into Tom DeLay there!

no hard feelings though, just a little ribbing
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Last edited by MarkDaMan; May 16, 2008 at 2:55 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 3:11 AM
philopdx philopdx is offline
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Well, you know, I guess I just touched a nerve, so I'm very sorry for that. My comments were describing the mostly lackluster architecture in my home state!

Yes, that's right - I lived 28 years in Alabama, so I do know of what I speak. The irony is, The 251, that Mobile has one of the most striking buildings in the state - The RSA Battle House tower! If ya'll could build 20 more like that, you'd be in business!

And okstate, I have no quarrel with you and I wasn't making commentary on your state. Never been to Stillwater, but I loved Norman when I was there last year! But, bottom line is, the statement wasn't based on the lack of knowledge (ignorance) - it was based on YEARS of agony!!

That being tidied up, I will leave you gentlemen with two cheeky tidbits of news from my home state!

It's a.... family tradition
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp...nav=menu33_3_6

Praise be unto the lawd!
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...072scuba1.html
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  #52  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 4:36 AM
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^ Well in the spirit of those stories...I can't resist adding to the list with some of my local news. My vocab wasn't up to par Phil... my bad.
http://www.stillwater-newspress.com/...136075242.html
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  #53  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 4:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
why post a bunch of top this or that lists? Doesn't show much more than insecurity. Post pics and show us why someone's comments are off the mark, instead of a bunch of meaningless lists of accolades.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying... I wasn't trying to compare Alabama to any specific place, I was just saying we have a lot more going on here than you would think. I just appreciate as much recognition as possible, because it is hard to come by. Not trying to start a war, just educating you on some info I think you might find interesting about my neck of the woods.

Here are a few pictures of where I live in Mobile, AL. This is just a mixture of new and old pics I have accumulated over the past 3 years. That is me in the 2nd pic lol.... Hope you enjoy















































































































Here are a couple of pictures of Birmingham:






And finally, here are pictures of Huntsville(1) and Montgomery(2):






Glad to see you are somewhat interested.
I welcome all of you to come over and check out the threads we have set up in the Southern Region of the Forum.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 6:41 AM
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OK, that cable-stayed bridge was pretty cool, I'll admit. I hope we can get something like that up here in PDX.

But the RSA tower though in the last pic - <sigh>, it's set 95 feet back from the street at the primary entrance with no real street level interaction. It's lies on a very large plot and pedestal, surrounded by low level maintenance buildings and fountains so that there wont be any density to speak of within a city block or two radius of the building for a very long time. It's one of many of David's Bronner's alabaster symbols of his own relevance in downtown Montgomery. You can see another one of his buildings immediately to the right of the central tower, it is actually adjacent to the tower in the pic, but in reality it's about half a mile up the hill. The signature RSA tower "look" is an all white finish with a pale green roof. They are multiplying like bacteria in downtown Montgomery.

The Capital City Club is nice, located on the top floor of the RSA tower. I had breakfast there several years ago and was served by black women in powder blue aprons and bonnets, just like in gone with the wind (I sh@# thee not).

Funny place, Montgomery is.

Also, may I add a bit of commentary to the Birmingham pic - notice the absolute gridlock in the foreground. Since the Bham metro has no transit to speak of, vehicle miles driven creeps up year after year. People keep moving further out, first Vestavia, then Hoover, then Helena, then Pelham, then Alabaster, then Chelsea, then Calera and on and on. In contrast, Portland metro's aggregate vehicle miles driven peaked in 2002 and has been dropping since - thanks to MAX and buses and soy-drinking-bike-riding hippies! YEAH!

(I should know since I love soy milk and don't own a car!)

Last edited by philopdx; May 16, 2008 at 7:10 AM.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 7:53 AM
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Mobile wins hands down, They've got Rich Boy!


---Rich Boy sellin' crack, Just bought a Cadillac (THROW SOME D'S ON THAT BITCH!)---
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  #56  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 3:24 PM
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Thanks for posting...the bridge rocks..couple nice buildings too! Needs some densification but otherwise it surpassed my images of what I thought it would look like
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  #57  
Old Posted May 16, 2008, 3:57 PM
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Thanks for sharing your pics...... It is a part of the country I have yet to visit.
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  #58  
Old Posted May 17, 2008, 12:35 AM
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Thanks guys. I cant believe you know who Rich Boy is! haha.
We live 2,635 miles away and you have heard of Rich Boy?? Thats awesome

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  #59  
Old Posted May 17, 2008, 9:44 PM
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What cute little towns!
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  #60  
Old Posted May 28, 2008, 5:16 AM
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Check out the comments section beneath the article. Holy Milwaukiestan. Does anyone have a guess as to 1.) whether or not a bunch of those comments are likely from the same person or if 2.) A simple article in the "Clackamas Review"/Portland Tribune really does inspire large numbers of people to reveal their true opposition to the evil mass transit and freedom(car)-hating socialist mafia? I suppose the former is more likely, combined with the internet being a great forum for minority-opinion voices to sound louder than they are --otherwise, I doubt Carlotta Collette (former Milwaukie city councilor and current CRC resister) would have won her Metro seat so resoundingly.


TriMet to Milwaukie: Your light-rail share is $5 million
City crafts a legal memo to protect itself from possible changes in expensive project

By Anthony Roberts

The Clackamas Review, May 27, 2008, Updated 10.5 hours ago (16 Reader comments)

TriMet officials told Milwaukie City Council last week that the city’s cost for the proposed light-rail line is $5 million, a fraction of the overall cost of the project.

Before the city moves forward on light rail, however, councilors are working to craft a legal document that would ensure TriMet makes certain improvements and lives up to promises and guarantees made throughout the light-rail process.

City council has presented TriMet with a memorandum of understanding (MOU), a 10-year agreement that would outline certain elements of transportation planning in the city. While such agreements are often non-binding, Councilor Greg Chaimov said lawyers from both sides are hashing out the agreement and considering how much weight it may hold in future deliberations.

Chaimov said the MOU came in the wake of the fallout over the Southgate site. TriMet had been working on moving the current transportation center at 21st Avenue and Harrison Street – a nightmare for downtown merchants – to the former theater site north of downtown, a move the city had been seeking for years. The transit agency pulled the plug on the project after legal troubles, leaving Milwaukie’s City Council furious.

Mayor Jim Bernard said Southgate made the MOU “even more important,” but noted that the city has wanted such an agreement for some time.

“Southgate makes it even more important. We’ve been working on this for many, many months,” he said. “Southgate just makes it so we are being more direct and this document needs to be more of a contract than a draft.”

He said the city isn’t yet close to signing off on an agreement.

“We’ve given them an agreement and basically got back nothing,” he said, “so we’re going to be very insistent with that before we move forward.”

As for the light-rail cost, $5 million is a small portion of the total cost of the project, which could run up to $1.4 billion. Most of the line runs through Portland and Multnomah County, with the largest single expense being a new bridge over the Willamette River in Portland. The project will receive more than half of its funding from the federal government, and the state has also pledged $250 million in lottery funds to the project.
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