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  #141  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2017, 10:17 PM
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What two downtowns in Seattle are you referring to? I you are thinking Bellevue....the subway being constructed there is not a direct connection to Seattle. They are just placing their light rail tracks/station underground in Downtown Bellevue...
oh thats makes more sense. i think the bay area its like that too. if portland has two downtown it would probably be a bridge over the river then where the grownd on both sides of the river got higher it would go under ground.
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  #142  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2017, 11:45 PM
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oh thats makes more sense. i think the bay area its like that too. if portland has two downtown it would probably be a bridge over the river then where the grownd on both sides of the river got higher it would go under ground.
The BART goes under the bay in tunnels. The Willamette River would be relatively easy to tunnel under in comparison to the bay or Lake Washington.
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  #143  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 12:23 AM
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The BART goes under the bay in tunnels. The Willamette River would be relatively easy to tunnel under in comparison to the bay or Lake Washington.
i was kinda dumb and didnt ride the bart when i was in the bay area, just rode the caltrain. anyways, if there was a subway in portland could it connect to the existing tunnel that goes through the west hills?

someone probably talked about it in here but there so many pages

thinking about it i think it wouldnt work. that train goes fast through that tunnel and it has to be real smooth. too much of a diference in elevation. also by the time theres a new tunnel it wouldnt make sense to hook it to a old one

but portland is running out of space? what are they going to do in like 50 years? probably have to have two downtowns

im not that much of a downtown guy and i dont even live in portland anymore. i think its interesting. if things took off in portland and was a futuristic city, id be happy. my family goes all the way back to the oregon trail. sorry bunch of usless text

Last edited by dubu; Oct 10, 2017 at 1:15 AM.
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  #144  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 1:32 AM
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The University District is in some ways a second downtown. The train stops nearly a mile short of that currently, but a new U District station will open in four years, a little before the one in Bellevue.
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  #145  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 2:15 AM
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The University District is in some ways a second downtown. The train stops nearly a mile short of that currently, but a new U District station will open in four years, a little before the one in Bellevue.
i like how its sorta higher up, looking at google maps terrain it looks higher then seattle and bellevue. then when you build tall buildings it can be sean better. then theres the thing about rising sea levels.

not sure if theres big hills in seattle (ive never been there, some day i will) the hills in portland totally block you from seeing the downtown. if there was some real tall buildings you would be able to see them
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  #146  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2017, 5:53 PM
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building portland from scratch

one subway tunnel and two bridges for streetcar with a downtown on each side of the river. then have just one freeway (i5). have it through the middle of the west side downtown, but having it connect up to 84 and i 5 on the east side of the river. then buildings would have a three block distance from the river. house boats and tiny houses could go there. its mostly a park.

the only things the same is two streetcar bridges.

Last edited by dubu; Oct 11, 2017 at 6:03 PM.
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  #147  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2019, 9:06 PM
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https://www.oregonmetro.gov/public-p...x-tunnel-study

Metro has softly released it's initial project site for a potential max tunnel through downtown - I feel like this is one of the big infrastructure pieces we have been waiting for.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2019, 1:18 AM
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Metro will study MAX tunnel underneath downtown Portland and Willamette River



Metro and TriMet are taking concrete steps this summer to determine if it’s feasible to build a tunnel underneath downtown Portland and the Willamette River to speed up light rail trains and provide an alternative river crossing to the aging Steel Bridge.

The regional government quietly posted a new website this week dedicated to the MAX tunnel project, which would put MAX trains underground from roughly the Lloyd Center to Goose Hollow in Southwest Portland. The website includes a public survey asking for comments on the tunnel concept.

Right now, Metro officials stress they are just trying to study the idea, likening it to a plan for planning.

“The MAX Tunnel study is a feasibility exercise to determine what it would take to do the entire environmental (EIS) planning process and all the engineering and design necessary to build a project like this,” Eryn Kehe, a Metro spokeswoman, said in an email. “By this September when we finish this study, we should have a cost estimate for the planning/design process and an idea of how long it would take.”
...continues at the Oregonian.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2019, 6:20 AM
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Also don't forget to take the survey, this helps them a lot to get as much information as needed to make the right choice....which in this case is a subway tunnel.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/maxtunnel

Quote:
TriMet leaders have previously said they would like a plan to either replace the Steel Bridge or otherwise address the transit bottleneck with a tunnel or other options like shifting MAX lines to other bridges, to be included on the 2020 ballot measure.
It looks like we might even see something about this on the ballots come the November 2020 election.
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  #150  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2019, 10:26 AM
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The tunnel will be expensive and a big construction pain in the ass. Once completed, though, we will all be glad we did it.
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  #151  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2019, 6:15 AM
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One possibility of joining MAX lines downtown in an effort to avoid the Steel Br. bottleneck, redundant stations, and extremely slow surface alignment. Current MAX lines could be used by streetcars.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/10229373355/
I just wanted to tip my hat to you for staying true to wanting this and thinking the city would eventually do this long before most people, including me, saw this as a real possibility.
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  #152  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2019, 11:40 PM
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I just wanted to tip my hat to you for staying true to wanting this and thinking the city would eventually do this long before most people, including me, saw this as a real possibility.
Hey, yeah my concern is that the city will focus on the E/W corridor, and neglect the connection to the new SW Corridor, Orange line (and inevitable Powell line), which are equally important. I'm really hoping the city will consider something like this.
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  #153  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2019, 3:25 AM
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Hey, yeah my concern is that the city will focus on the E/W corridor, and neglect the connection to the new SW Corridor, Orange line (and inevitable Powell line), which are equally important. I'm really hoping the city will consider something like this.
I mostly agree with your plan. The Pearl, Slabtown and NW need better connections to the regional network too.
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  #154  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2019, 6:01 PM
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I'm really hoping the city will consider something like this.
Keep in mind if you are tunneling under existing buildings you have to consider the foundation depth and settlement implications. That route would push the stations very deep. For example it would run right under the Fox Tower which the bottom of the parking garage is 65' below grade. Then you have to go down even further for foundations and/or piles and whatever additional depth to mitigate any foundation settlement concerns. Unfortunately, PDX doesn't have bedrock near the surface like some other places (NYC) that makes tunneling beneath structures much more practical.

That would put any stations very deep and likely only accessible by elevators. Ideally they'd align the route beneath roads where possible and keep any corners below buildings with limited foundation depth to keep the stations closer to the surface so that they could also be served by escalators.

Also, any tunneling under private property presumably would need an easement (i.e. $$$) as well as potentially limit future development options for underground work and/or make future building over any subway more complex and expensive.


The SW extension really should be going under OHSU and then could continue under the park blocks through PSU. I think the chosen alignment is so short sighted at best.
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  #155  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2019, 11:44 PM
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This is a preliminary map of the route and stations for a tunnel through downtown.
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  #156  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2019, 4:49 PM
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Hey, yeah my concern is that the city will focus on the E/W corridor, and neglect the connection to the new SW Corridor, Orange line (and inevitable Powell line), which are equally important.
Agreed. The one thing that gave me pause about the survey is that it only mentions the Red/Blue Lines. It's understandable, as this segment is the biggest bottleneck. However, Yellow/Green can only grow, not only for the reasons you mentioned but also if an extension to Vancouver becomes reality.

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Originally Posted by Nunya View Post
Keep in mind if you are tunneling under existing buildings you have to consider the foundation depth and settlement implications. That route would push the stations very deep. For example it would run right under the Fox Tower which the bottom of the parking garage is 65' below grade. Then you have to go down even further for foundations and/or piles and whatever additional depth to mitigate any foundation settlement concerns. Unfortunately, PDX doesn't have bedrock near the surface like some other places (NYC) that makes tunneling beneath structures much more practical.

That would put any stations very deep and likely only accessible by elevators. Ideally they'd align the route beneath roads where possible and keep any corners below buildings with limited foundation depth to keep the stations closer to the surface so that they could also be served by escalators.

Also, any tunneling under private property presumably would need an easement (i.e. $$$) as well as potentially limit future development options for underground work and/or make future building over any subway more complex and expensive.
Although the initial construction would be far more disruptive, it appears cut-and-cover might be the way to go (at least one exception I can think of: going under the I-405 trench). However, if the intention is to run the tunnel N/S under SW 5th/6th, that would require tearing up the Transit Mall (again!) and majorly impacting Yellow/Green Line service.

Last edited by green_man; Jul 5, 2019 at 6:07 AM.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2019, 3:52 PM
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that's a good rout but I think there would need to be elevated rail also going that same rout as the subway but having it go to the sw and orange lines.
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 10:00 PM
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Released tunnel study

Metro recently released its study on the benefits of a downtown tunnel. No surprise, there are a lot of them.

https://www.oregonmetro.gov/sites/de...20Findings.pdf
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  #159  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by D.J. View Post
Metro recently released its study on the benefits of a downtown tunnel. No surprise, there are a lot of them.

https://www.oregonmetro.gov/sites/de...20Findings.pdf
This is really promising news, especially since this transportation package will be coming up to vote in the 2020 November election, so it should get a lot of support. The fact that Metro and Trimet are going to actually study a subway tunnel through downtown is a huge advancement of the rail system here and the ability to run more lines and even potentially run longer trains on some of those lines.
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  #160  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 12:26 AM
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Looking at Google Maps and thinking about this and the current planned location for a MLB stadium, it would be interesting if the tunnel proposal included running a second tunnel line that split off at Union Station, had a stop in North Pearl, a stop in Slabtown part of Northwest, then a stop where the stadium and housing development would be. From there it could tunnel under the Willamette and Swan Island, then it could run along the surface following the train tracks that run along the bottom of the bluff all the way out to St Johns.
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