Southern cities with biggest cultural impact?

[BnaBreaker]

It seems like this discussion has primarily boiled down to music. Atlanta, New Orleans, and Nashville are obvious contributors, along with Miami. But Memphis deserves just as much, if not more credit than any of those, in my opinion, if we're talking overall impact on American music.

You've obviously got the modern in Memphis hip hop... groups/artists like Three 6 Mafia, Yo Gotti, and Al Kapone and movies like Hustle & Flow made their mark on our culture... also hugely influential pop acts like Justin Timberlake (although I'm not sure how much he really has to do with the Memphis music scene.)

... then going way back you've got Memphis being one of the foundational locations of Blues music with BB King, W.C. Fields, and Howlin' Wolf...

... but in between you've got the era of Sun Studios and Stax Records, which along with Motown up in Detroit, are responsible for so much of what we know as the American sound. At Sun Studios artists such as Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins, Roy Orbison, Jerry Lee Lewis, and of course, Elvis Presley, put in heavy work.

Right down the street at Stax artists like Booker T & The MG's, Otis Redding, Carla Thomas, The Bar-Kays, Wilson Pickett, Sam & Dave, and The Staples Singers took that Memphis blues legacy and helped push R&B/Soul music into the future.

Even beyond the local recording studios you had Memphians like Reverend Al Green and Aretha Franklin making outsized impacts on American music. So in my opinion, Memphis deserves far more credit than it usually gets in these types of conversations.

[hauntedheadnc]

Depends on how far back you want to go. Go back to the 1920's and all of a sudden places like Asheville, Miami Beach, and Hot Springs, Arkansas will pop up on the national radar. Any place where the rich and cultural movers and shakers gather will generate some impact just because of who can meet whom when they all go to those places together.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I tried to come up with famous Southern authors who were from cities, but most were from small towns in Mississippi or Kentucky or Texas. Margaret Mitchell was from Atlanta, although I don't know how much we want to celebrate Gone with the Wind these days.

tennessee williams grew up in...st. louis, lol.

[pj3000]

New Orleans
Miami
Nashville
Dallas

There is large-scale and widely-understood cultural identity associated with these four cities in Americans' minds.

Their names alone instantly conjure up similar and familiar images, lifestyles, activities, etc. for the broad American and international populace. These very strong cultural identities are solidified in the minds of generations of people.

These four places are the only southern cities on that level.

[JManc]

Musically; New Orleans, Memphis and Nashville. Honorable mention, Austin.
Pop culture; Atlanta (Olympics, TWD, CNN, Tyler Perry, hip-hop), Dallas (Dallas, the Cowboys), New Orleans (it goes without saying), and most recently, Austin (SXSW, techie scene)

Miami is it's own thing and is more like a New York city with palm trees.

[Razor]

just from my view up here, New Orleans and Nashville are the two cultural stand outs and are also big tourist destinations..I never met one person who targeted Atlanta for a vacation, although I would personally love to visit that city.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by JManc

Miami is it's own thing and is more like a New York city with palm trees.

See, I find nothing "New York City" about Miami.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by pj3000

See, I find nothing "New York City" about Miami.

It's the fast(er) pace and more aggressive attitude. Compared to virtually every other city in the South, Miami stands apart as far as sharing a lot of similarities with the northeast than with other cities nearby. The constant horn honking, for example, is extremely rare in the rest of the South. That's very much a New York/ Boston/ Philly thing.

[pj3000]

^ ok, yeah I see where you’re coming from. The more frenetic pace and honking on the streets is more of a Latino city thing in Miami than it is a northern thing though.

I guess from my perspective as someone who has lived in NYC and Miami, I find almost nothing similar in my lifestyle and surroundings in the two cities. If anything, my life in Pittsburgh is much more similar to how I experienced life in NYC, in comparison to my life in Miami.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

^ ok, yeah I see where you’re coming from. The more frenetic pace and honking on the streets is more of a Latino city thing in Miami than it is a northern thing though.

I guess from my perspective as someone who has lived in NYC and Miami, I find almost nothing similar in my lifestyle and surroundings in the two cities. If anything, my life in Pittsburgh is much more similar to how I experienced life in NYC, in comparison to my life in Miami.

Well like half of South Florida is former New Yorkers, so that surely influences Miami's culture. The two cities/metros also have large populations of the same ethnic groups- namely Jews, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans. I think outside of Florida, the largest US Cuban community is in Jersey. All of these groups are pretty much absent in the rest of the south, which makes Miami seem like more of an outlier.

I don't think anyone would seriously say NYC and Miami are alike in terms of their built environments or lifestyle.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

Well like half of South Florida is former New Yorkers, so that surely influences Miami's culture. The two cities/metros also have large populations of the same ethnic groups- namely Jews, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans. I think outside of Florida, the largest US Cuban community is in Jersey. All of these groups are pretty much absent in the rest of the south, which makes Miami seem like more of an outlier.

I don't think anyone would seriously say NYC and Miami are alike in terms of their built environments or lifestyle.

The notion that Miami/South Florida is New York's "6th borough" was outdated more than 2 decades ago. Claiming that "like half of South Florida is former New Yorkers" demonstrates a real lack of true knowledge of the area. It's not the 1970s anymore.

And yes, I think it's very well understood that Miami is far from being considered the "South" -- it most certainly is an outlier, even within Florida. It's basically only 100 years old, founded and built by northerners, firmly established in the last 50-60 years by Cubans, and culturally dominated by Hispanics since the 1990s.

That doesn't make it like NYC at all.

If two cities are not alike at all in terms of their built environments and lifestyles, then they are not similar cities. Those are two major elements which define a place, at least for comparison purposes.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The notion that Miami/South Florida is New York's "6th borough" was outdated more than 2 decades ago. Claiming that "like half of South Florida is former New Yorkers" demonstrates a real lack of true knowledge of the area. It's not the 1970s anymore.

And yes, I think it's very well understood that Miami is far from being considered the "South" -- it most certainly is an outlier, even within Florida. It's basically only 100 years old, founded and built by northerners, firmly established in the last 50-60 years by Cubans, and culturally dominated by Hispanics since the 1990s.

That doesn't make it like NYC at all.

If two cities are not alike at all in terms of their built environments and lifestyles, then they are not similar cities. Those are two major elements which define a place, at least for comparison purposes.

You're really claiming that South Florida isn't an extremely popular place for retirees from the Tri-State area?

Miami and New York are literally nothing alike in terms of climate, built environment, lifestyle. They are obviously completely different cities. But New York and South Florida are linked by the ties their citizens have to each place. Hell, you can even feel a similar connection to NY in San Juan! Miami/South Florida is the American hub of Latin America and the Caribbean, and NYC is the #2 (maybe the order is actually reversed). They're both also major centers for Jews (again, due to migration of NYers). I don't know how anyone who's lived in either place would be able to deny the connection.

[The North One]

New Orleans and Atlanta are definitely the kings of southern cultural impact and influence.

Dallas has almost no impact, especially for a city of it's size.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by The North One

New Orleans and Atlanta are definitely the kings of southern cultural impact and influence.

Dallas has almost no impact, especially for a city of it's size.

That's false. Dallas has immediate association for generations of the American psyche on a broad national scale. The association is "Texas", big business, big hair, cowboy hats, etc. (whether it is really accurate or not).

One could ask an 88 year old white man and a 22 year old black woman and a 40 year old Asian woman and a 15 year old Hispanic girl what comes to mind when the name "Dallas" is mentioned, and you would get four similar responses about the above attributes associated with the name Dallas. That is cultural impact on a national scale.

Atlanta has nothing like that associated with its name on the broad demographic scale throughout generations in America. At this time at least. If you asked that same question about Atlanta to that same group, what are you gonna get in response? Who knows? Because Atlanta does not have that national scale, generational cultural impact yet.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by pj3000

That's false. Dallas has immediate association for generations of the American psyche on a broad national scale. The association is "Texas", big business, big hair, cowboy hats, etc. (whether it is really accurate or not).

One could ask an 88 year old white man and a 22 year old black woman and a 40 year old Asian woman and a 15 year old Hispanic girl what comes to mind when the name "Dallas" is mentioned, and you would get four similar responses about the above attributes associated with the name Dallas. That is cultural impact on a national scale.

Atlanta has nothing like that associated with its name on the broad demographic scale throughout generations in America. At this time at least. If you asked that same question about Atlanta to that same group, what are you gonna get in response? Who knows? Because Atlanta does not have that national scale, generational cultural impact yet.

That's not the same thing as cultural impact or contribution though - that's a case of having a well-defined, easily identifiable brand. And in the case of Dallas's brand, that's not even its own so much as it is that "Dallas" is being used synonymously with "Texas".

In terms of actual, discernible cultural exports though - through mediums of music, literature, film, television, art, fashion, food, politics, or pop culture - Dallas seems conspicuously lacking. Aside of course from the 80s TV show of the same name. But even just within the national psyche it seems largely absent for a city of its size. People might be able to readily identify its "image" (stereotype, really), but otherwise what influence does the city have on the average non-Dallas resident?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

You're really claiming that South Florida isn't an extremely popular place for retirees from the Tri-State area?

Don’t twist my words to fit your narrative here. I never claimed anything like that.

I'm well aware that the South Florida region is a popular retirement location. But that certainly does not make Miami like New York City.

Originally Posted by edale

Miami and New York are literally nothing alike in terms of climate, built environment, lifestyle. They are obviously completely different cities. But New York and South Florida are linked by the ties their citizens have to each place. Hell, you can even feel a similar connection to NY in San Juan! Miami/South Florida is the American hub of Latin America and the Caribbean, and NYC is the #2 (maybe the order is actually reversed). They're both also major centers for Jews (again, due to migration of NYers). I don't know how anyone who's lived in either place would be able to deny the connection.

There are definitely linkages like you suggest. I'm not denying that. But that reality now is not what it was back in the 1970s and into the 1980s, when you could really see much more of a direct influence of New Yorkers in Miami. It's just not that way anymore, as Miami has grown and changed dramatically over the last 4 decades. And as Miami has grown, it has grown more and more away from that "New York connection". That's why I don't see how Miami could possibly be termed a "New York with palm trees"... because that it just simply not apparent anymore.

Miami-Dade will likely be 75% Hispanic in less than 10 years from now, and it will be 20% Black. That is not like New York at all. Even Broward County is likely 30% Hispanic right now.

The greater connection to NYC you're looking for would be found further north in Palm Beach County. But that is not Miami.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's not the same thing as cultural impact or contribution though - that's a case of having a well-defined, easily identifiable brand. And in the case of Dallas's brand, that's not even its own so much as it is that "Dallas" is being used synonymously with "Texas".

In terms of actual, discernible cultural exports though - through mediums of music, literature, film, television, art, fashion, food, politics, or pop culture - Dallas seems conspicuously lacking. Aside of course from the 80s TV show of the same name. But even just within the national psyche it seems largely absent for a city of its size. People might be able to readily identify its "image" (stereotype, really), but otherwise what influence does the city have on the average non-Dallas resident?

Strong branding is everything. To me, a strong cultural identity that people associate with a place provides strong cultural impact. I don't care about current "cultural exports".

Atlanta can pump out as much hip hop as it wants to for the next decade, and the vast majority of America will never identify it, or the supposed cultural impact it has on them, with the largest city in Georgia.

I mean, damn, Outkast, Usher, TLC, and Ludacris didn't even last the 2000s... and the vast majority of the world does not associate any of that with Atlanta.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Strong branding is everything. To me, a strong cultural identity that people associate with a place provides strong cultural impact. I don't care about current "cultural exports".

Atlanta can pump out as much hip hop as it wants to for the next decade, and the vast majority of America will never identify it, or the supposed cultural impact it has on them, with the largest city in Georgia.

it's not just hip hop though. it's a wide variety of music, and other media as well - tv, movies. cartoons - cartoon network/adult swim.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by pj3000

That's false. Dallas has immediate association for generations of the American psyche on a broad national scale. The association is "Texas", big business, big hair, cowboy hats, etc. (whether it is really accurate or not).

One could ask an 88 year old white man and a 22 year old black woman and a 40 year old Asian woman and a 15 year old Hispanic girl what comes to mind when the name "Dallas" is mentioned, and you would get four similar responses about the above attributes associated with the name Dallas. That is cultural impact on a national scale.

Atlanta has nothing like that associated with its name on the broad demographic scale throughout generations in America. At this time at least. If you asked that same question about Atlanta to that same group, what are you gonna get in response? Who knows? Because Atlanta does not have that national scale, generational cultural impact yet.

JR Ewing and to a lesser extent, the Cowboys' dynasty in the 90's put Dallas on the map as far as notoriety. Houston despite being the same size is far more of an 'unknown' outside of Texas. Atlanta has a lot more characteristics that have national recognition; Benjamin Matlock, peaches, Coke, gay scene, Civil Rights, media, the Olympics and so on.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by pj3000

That's false. Dallas has immediate association for generations of the American psyche on a broad national scale. The association is "Texas", big business, big hair, cowboy hats, etc. (whether it is really accurate or not).

Associations alone are not contributions or cultural influence and none of that is exclusive to Dallas. Dallas doesn't really take up any space in the American psyche anyway and doesn't produce/export much culturally. You could say Nashville has mostly the same associations.

Now compare that to Atlanta, a city where pretty much anything culturally relevant that is southern comes out of and revolves around.

What is Dallas? The Cowboys? Everybody has an NFL team. A random TV show from the 70's? That's nothing. Most people probably only know Dallas as the city where JFK was killed.