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  #201  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 9:13 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Probably not as much as Chicago, but I'd reckon it'd be either Cincinnati or Milwaukee?
Yeah, Cincinnati has a ton of German Catholics. It's a very catholic city, but mostly comprised of German and Irish catholics, rather than the Italian/Hispanic Catholic communities in other cities. Perhaps for that reason, I always felt like being Catholic in Cincinnati was more or less the 'default' setting for white Cincinnatians rather than any sort of ethnic identifier.

Similarly, many of Cincinnati's Jews are also German rather than Eastern European, as is the case in many other cities. Having largely missed much of the second wave of immigrants from Europe that brought people from Southern and Eastern Europe, Cincinnati's Jewish community is mostly comprised of descendants of German Jews who came to the US in the 1800s. A lot of the community is blonde and blue eyed people who don't look ethnically Jewish-- some with very German sounding names! It's definitely a different community than Cleveland's, for example. Though because the bulk of Cincy's Jews were earlier arrivals, the city made quite an impact on Judaica in America, including most notably being the birthplace of reform Judaism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ti%20in%201854.
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  #202  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 10:47 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Yeah honestly I'd associate Catholicism with Cincinnati a lot more than German immigration, but that's because my mother's side of the family was very Catholic and before we moved, she worked at St. Rita's so I spent a lot of time there (despite not knowing a lick of sign language).

Still, one of the city's most-famous neighborhoods is "Over the Rhine," they have a giant Oktoberfest and last names like Mecklenburg and Schottlekotte aren't all that uncommon.
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  #203  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Since this thread has turned, partially, into a "Where are Germans in the United States" I will add some further Texas context which I hope shows that Texas is WAY more German culturally than many above posters seem to give it credit for. In fact, I'd argue that Texan as a regional identity is derived almost as much from Germanic immigration as it is from Spanish settlement (later known as Tejanos and then of course subsequent Mexican immigration), predominantly Anglo and Scots-Irish white migrants to Mexican Texas, Texas, and U.S. and Confederate Texas, and the black slaves and the descendants thereof with whom whites brought. French and Native influence are minor, but nevertheless present along with other more minor regional influences.

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/germans


Much of this immigration actually occurred during the Republic period of Texan history, and would not necessarily be captured by all forms of United States data:

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/adelsverein



German is actually spoken as a native tongue and a generally recognized dialect of German in Texas, of which Alsatian was a large contributor.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-cul...-to-a-dialect/



https://www.thelocal.de/20180927/tex...-dying-dialect



Weimar, Texas, mind you, not the former Weimar Republic. German heritage and culture are so important in Texas that political leaders here have kept pressure on our school systems to still offer German as a language option, whereas in many other places German is dropping off of public education course offerings.



One of the most prosperous communities in San Antonio was founded by German immigrants in the aftermath of Republican independence and was named after Kaiser Wilhelm I. It was re-named King William as a result of anti-German sentiment during WWI (not WWII, as was the case elsewhere in the States with anti-Germanism).

https://www.sanantonio.gov/historic/...ts/KingWilliam



https://sanantoniotourist.net/germanheritage/
https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifesty...st-7044456.php

German influence is also a HUGE reason why Texan political leadership has historically been not quite as racist as the rest of the south:



https://www.uiw.edu/sanantonio/SanAn...Secession.html

LBJ, recall, is from the Texas Hill Country. Although a descendant himself of Anglo/Scots-Irish old stock, he had been exposed to the belief systems of Texas Germans (being a strong majority in the area), which were racially egalitarian and anti-slavery. This is perhaps one of the contributing factors to his relative liberalism on race during his time in the Senate and as President. Other Texans were also some of the only southern Democrats to support racial justice reforms of this era. Some representatives of Tennessee (which also has some local history of anti-slavery sentiment in Appalachia) also voted for racial justice reforms.
The Hill Country still has remnants of the old German ties. Bier gardens, the food and German place names. And of course, Schliterbahn
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  #204  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The Hill Country still has remnants of the old German ties. Bier gardens, the food and German place names. And of course, Schliterbahn
Exactly.

The accordion is a commonplace instrument in Tejano music because of German immigration.
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  #205  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post

Still, one of the city's most-famous neighborhoods is "Over the Rhine," they have a giant Oktoberfest and last names like Mecklenburg and Schottlekotte aren't all that uncommon.
My neighborhood of Lincoln Square is the traditional heart of german culture in Chicago. Both sets of my maternal great-grandparents raised their families in the area a century ago.

We host the city's largest oktoberfest celebration every september, and an annual Maifest celebration in late spring that's just as big and popular. They're nice bookends to the big annual summer street festivals that take place in neighborhoods all across the city all summer long.

Of course, neither event was held this year because of fucking covid.
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  #206  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 12:19 AM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Sounds like Catholic parishes hosting large weekend festivals are a big thing in Chicago during the summer (well, in pre-covid times)? Those were (are?) huge when I lived in Cincinnati.
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  #207  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 2:57 AM
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Man, Irish Catholicism is just the worst. I'm reading about all these German and Polish Catholic festivals in the Midwest, and I'm remembering all the Italian and Portuguese and Puerto Rican Catholic festivals back in Mass and Rhode Island, and I wonder where exactly we Irish went wrong. I mean, even the Germans found a way to enjoy it. For the Irish, Catholicism is strictly a burden to bare. A guilt-riddled burden.

Aren't most German Catholics in the US Bavarian?
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  #208  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 3:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Man, Irish Catholicism is just the worst. I'm reading about all these German and Polish Catholic festivals in the Midwest, and I'm remembering all the Italian and Portuguese and Puerto Rican Catholic festivals back in Mass and Rhode Island, and I wonder where exactly we Irish went wrong. I mean, even the Germans found a way to enjoy it. For the Irish, Catholicism is strictly a burden to bare. A guilt-riddled burden.
Because:

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  #209  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 3:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Man, Irish Catholicism is just the worst. I'm reading about all these German and Polish Catholic festivals in the Midwest, and I'm remembering all the Italian and Portuguese and Puerto Rican Catholic festivals back in Mass and Rhode Island, and I wonder where exactly we Irish went wrong. I mean, even the Germans found a way to enjoy it. For the Irish, Catholicism is strictly a burden to bare. A guilt-riddled burden.

Aren't most German Catholics in the US Bavarian?
My german (and germanic) catholic ancestors came from bavaria, baden, rhineland, and just over the rhine in alsace (france).
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  #210  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 3:53 AM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Oh let's not kid ourselves, the German Catholics in Cincinnati ran dour, but efficient parish festivals and most of the people enjoying themselves were probably Protestants from the Kentucky side of the river.

My mom's side (Catholics) are from Lower Saxony, Diepholtz District which, best I can tell, is the German equivalent of West Virginia. My dad's side (maybe some Catholics, but mostly Protestant) were from Bavaria.
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  #211  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Aren't most German Catholics in the US Bavarian?
Bavaria is the most Catholic German state, and the second most populous German state, so a large share of German Catholic immigrants will likely be from Bavaria.

But the Rhineland and other geographies bordering France tend to be very Catholic too. And most of German Europe, outside of Switzerland, including the (formerly) huge Eastern European German communities, were Catholic.

But former Prussia was almost entirely Lutheran. Northern Germany and the former East Germany were Lutheran-dominated, as well as the south around Stuttgart/Black Forest and extending to Nuremberg.
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  #212  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 10:50 PM
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In the famous study of ethnicity in NYC, Beyond the Melting Pot, Glazer and Moynihan estimated that "WASPs" (those of colonial old stock + descendants of British Protestant immigrants) were about 5% of the population (in the 1960s).
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  #213  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2020, 6:06 PM
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Salt Lake City/Utah would up there in terms of Anglo-Saxons, but Mormons aren't considered Protestants. Most Mormons are of Yankee or English immigrant heritage.
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  #214  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2020, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
In the famous study of ethnicity in NYC, Beyond the Melting Pot, Glazer and Moynihan estimated that "WASPs" (those of colonial old stock + descendants of British Protestant immigrants) were about 5% of the population (in the 1960s).
NYC is the least WASPy city, as you stated in your OP. For me, it’s not explicitly about English ancestry or Protestant faith (both of which NYC metro has smaller shares of), but the presence of primarily Mediterranean and Eastern Bloc ethnic populations, which form the majority of Greater NYC’s white population. Italian and Jewish are the two largest ethnic groups, and that “ethnicity” is heavily played up both in real life and in cultural iconography.

I don’t view Irish Catholic or French Catholic as “white ethnic” to nearly the same degree that I do, say, Italian or Polish. And I’m almost certain that in the psyche of most white Americans whose lineage is primarily an admixture of British Isles and Germanic or French ancestry, someone with pale skin, red hair, and light irises doesn’t come across as “ethnic” the way that someone like, say, Joe Pesci does. That’s why Boston, even with its large Italian, Portuguese, and Greek populations, feels much more “generic American” than NYC. Never mind that Boston also has an outsized portion of people claiming English and American ancestry, and the two combined make it nearly tied with Italian for second largest ancestral group.
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  #215  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2020, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
NYC is the least WASPy city, as you stated in your OP. For me, it’s not explicitly about English ancestry or Protestant faith (both of which NYC metro has smaller shares of), but the presence of primarily Mediterranean and Eastern Bloc ethnic populations, which form the majority of Greater NYC’s white population. Italian and Jewish are the two largest ethnic groups, and that “ethnicity” is heavily played up both in real life and in cultural iconography.

I don’t view Irish Catholic or French Catholic as “white ethnic” to nearly the same degree that I do, say, Italian or Polish. And I’m almost certain that in the psyche of most white Americans whose lineage is primarily an admixture of British Isles and Germanic or French ancestry, someone with pale skin, red hair, and light irises doesn’t come across as “ethnic” the way that someone like, say, Joe Pesci does. That’s why Boston, even with its large Italian, Portuguese, and Greek populations, feels much more “generic American” than NYC. Never mind that Boston also has an outsized portion of people claiming English and American ancestry, and the two combined make it nearly tied with Italian for second largest ancestral group.
I would agree with this. NYC is probably the only city where a majority of whites are not of NW European ancestry. I think around 50% of whites are Italian American or Jewish.
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  #216  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2020, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by docere View Post
i would agree with this. Nyc is probably the only city where a majority of whites are not of nw european ancestry. I think around 50% of whites are italian american or jewish.
LA? SF? Vegas?
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  #217  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2020, 5:25 AM
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^ He's talking CSA.

Interestingly, I think the majority of whites in LA city might be Jewish. Wikipedia claims that they constitute 17% of the city's population (although there's no citation to back it up), but that number actually sounds about right because there's a good amount of Jews pretty much in every neighborhood with at least a sizable white population, except for maybe Westchester/Playa Vista/Playa del Rey, San Pedro, and Sunland-Tujunga. There are an estimated 573,000 Jews in LA County, according to the Jewish Data Bank. That means about one out of every five white people is Jewish. And since LA city is much, much more Jewish than LA County, the 17% figure is totally plausible.

It's clear that the most non-gentile (e.g. Jewish) cities are NYC, Miami, and LA. But half of Miami's (South Florida) Jewish population is concentrated in Palm Beach County, away from Miami itself. Miami-Dade County is even less Jewish (4.5%) than much larger LA County (5.7%), although Jews constitute closer to one out of every three whites in Miami-Dade. And Cubans control Miami's civic life/institutions, while in LA Hollywood is run by Jews and most of our major cultural philanthropists (Eli Broad, Stewart/Lynda Resnick, Armand Hammer, Norton Simon, David Geffen) are Jewish.

Last edited by Quixote; Dec 14, 2020 at 6:55 AM.
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  #218  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2020, 6:32 AM
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Dont forget the massive number of Persian Jews in LA, specifically Beverly Hills, Encino and Tarzana
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  #219  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2020, 6:53 AM
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^ They're included in the count; Jews are Jews. Although Persian Jews seem to be the only ones that emphasize the "Persian" part, while Ashkenazi Jews don't really make a distinction by saying they're Russian, Polish, Hungarian, etc. That's because DNA-wise, a Russian Jew actually has more in common with a Polish Jew than they do a regular Russian, or so I've read. But that certainly doesn't explain why there's a great deal of phenetic diversity among Ashkenazi Jews. Gal Gadot, for instance, looks nothing like Ellen Barkin.
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  #220  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2020, 1:34 PM
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I don't doubt a large share of LA whites are Jewish, but I doubt a majority.

Yeah, there are Jews in basically all the white west side neighborhoods, but not many will have a Jewish majority. Places like Pacific Palisades have Jews, but they aren't particularly Jewish.

And there are still lots of whites in the fringe SFV, in places like Chatsworth. I don't think those places are particularly Jewish.
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