Planning underway for new commuter ferry between Bedford and Halifax

[Keith P.]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ifax-1.6069062

Plans are underway to launch a new ferry transit route between Bedford and downtown Halifax.

The municipal, provincial and federal governments announced Thursday morning they are partnering on a study of a new commuter ferry and ferry terminal in Bedford.

The federal government is contributing more than $1.3 million for the study, the province is providing $1.1 million and the municipality is pitching in $917,000.

The study will also explore options for an electric ferry, which would become the province's first zero-emission ferry, according to a news release from the province.

The existing putt-putt tubs would take an hour to make the trip from Bedford, so good thing they are looking at a different type of vessel.

[someone123]

Andy Fillmore tweeted that the travel time should be 18 minutes, which seems really good if that can be achieved. Curious to see if the electric ferry idea pans out.

It seems like the travel time and start/destination will be better than commuter rail would have been, but there will be no stops along the way. The current rapid transit plan is for Mill Cove and Larry Uteck to be 2 separate routes. I'd guess there isn't a lot of potential traffic between the future ferry terminal locations.

[q12]

Rygerelektra specs:

42-meters long, carbon fiber construction (40% lighter than aluminum counterpart)
can take up to 297 passengers
range of 40 nautical miles (46 miles; 74 km) at 18 knots (20.7 mph; 33.3 km/h)
range of 50 nautical miles (58 miles; 93 km) at 17 knots (19.6 mph; 31.5 km/h)
2.0 MWh battery
top speed during tests - over 23 knots (26.5 mph; 42.6 km/h)
top speed during normal operation - 19.9 knots (22.9 mph; 36.9 km/h)
two Ramme 375 kW main electric motors (total 750 kW)
27

[DigitalNinja]

That could only make one back and forth trip, battery range would probably go down in stronger headwinds/going against tides. I wonder how long it would take to charge?

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

That could only make one back and forth trip, battery range would probably go down in stronger headwinds/going against tides. I wonder how long it would take to charge?

How do you figure only one return trip? The specs quoted suggest a lot more than that.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

How do you figure only one return trip? The specs quoted suggest a lot more than that.

By my calculations the Norwegian vessel would be able to perform almost eight single way trips before needing a recharge but the question remains. How long would it take to fully recharge. That type of question is the main thing holding back renewables from displacing fossil fuels especially in public transportation. All the public care about is reliable, safe and predictable methods of transport. No matter what the climate change/kill Oil bunch have to say.
Maybe the system selected will be able to supercharge for the ten minutes discharging passengers. Who knows. Maybe Musk would like to visit his Lab at Dal and bounce some idea's.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

By my calculations the Norwegian vessel would be able to perform almost eight single way trips before needing a recharge but the question remains. How long would it take to fully recharge. That type of question is the main thing holding back renewables from displacing fossil fuels especially in public transportation. All the public care about is reliable, safe and predictable methods of transport. No matter what the climate change/kill Oil bunch have to say.

Of course, and I wasn't debating any of those points - just doing some simple math.

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

How do you figure only one return trip? The specs quoted suggest a lot more than that.

My bad, I was Looking at the 40/50 figure and thinking KM's in my head.

My point about charging still stands though, a 2MWH battery would take a lot of time. I assume the equipment for the charger would need to be huge.

Also the other thing is that batteries don't last as long when constantly charged rapidly and they degrade more quickly. All in all there are interesting issues and I'm sure they will be worked out in the future.

I wonder if a natural gas powered ship would be better for now?

[OldDartmouthMark]

As intriguing as an electric-powered ferry is, the main point is that they are finally moving along with a plan to improve transit in Halifax. I was a little surprised in reading the article that they were just announcing funding for a study, after having previously announced that ferries were going to be added to the transit system last year? I had assumed that they would have already done a study before making the announcement - isn't that how you would normally do it? The key point to me is that their target to have it operational is "by 2024", which seems worryingly vague.

All that aside, this is great news that they are finally starting the process to getting this up and running, and that the province and feds are helping with the funding... hopefully that continues when it comes time to purchase the crafts. Although at approx $3.5 million... maybe that includes part of the construction and purchasing costs as well? Seems like a lot for a "study".

There was a curious quote from Kelly Regan in the article:

Deputy Premier Kelly Regan said transportation is Nova Scotia's second largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, so transitioning away from diesel ferries will reduce emissions and help the province meet its 2030 emission targets.

What is the largest source of GHG emissions in NS?

The largest emitting sectors in Nova Scotia are electricity generation at 42% of emissions, transportation at 31%, and buildings (residential and commercial) at 14%

Source

So we're transitioning from the #2 source to the #1 source? Regardless, I know there are technological moves towards clean energy and all, but it just seemed like a slippery comment designed to make it sound great while leaving out important details...

I personally like the idea of electric ferries, but I would hope the study actually leads to a good sound decision, and not one that chooses electric because it's popular these days (and therefore political). Engineers around the world are working on solutions to transition all forms of transportation from fossil fuels to electric, but I'm concerned that they are not quite there yet. As Dartguard posted, the users of the service just want efficient, safe, reliable ferry service, and if that service is compromised because Halifax Transit has to deal with a bunch of technical issues from using technology that has not been fully developed yet, then it's going to be a problem.

In other words, I hope they make choices with a good "safety factor", i.e. more than enough range, and more than enough charge time (including factoring in the coldest days of the winter, which will affect both charge time and range). The last thing you want to be doing is cancelling runs because there isn't sufficient time to recharge, or god forbid, towing a dead ferry full of passengers back to the terminal...

Don't get me wrong. I'm quite excited about this! (but perhaps overly pragmatic...)

[someone123]

The reporting is a bit odd. Some articles say the study will explore electric options and others make it sound like an "electric ferry" plan, as if the decision has already been made. The electric option idea sounds more realistic while that second one sounds more clickbait-y.

I wonder if this is a more detailed study aimed at getting construction going whereas most of the older planning exercises were high level, or are so old now that they are not relevant (outdated cost estimates, demand estimates, etc.).

[MonctonRad]

I wonder if it has been absolutely decided that the fast ferry will have right-of-way all the time.

What if there is a large container ship navigating down the Narrows to the Fairview terminal during early morning rush? Will Harbour Traffic Control give the ferry right of passage?

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder if it has been absolutely decided that the fast ferry will have right-of-way all the time.

What if there is a large container ship navigating down the Narrows to the Fairview terminal during early morning rush? Will Harbour Traffic Control give the ferry right of passage?

Good Question, as the cost of having a fully experienced master mariner on a fast ferry would no doubt raise the cost to run a ferry through the roof.

Then again our Fed Liberals just may come up with a plan to retire or move the Basin container berths to a refurbished Imperial Oil site. That would lead to no restrictions for the Marco Polo class Container ships to finally shut down Montreal.
Naw, what was I thinking, Liberals will think they have already given Halifax the shipbuilding contract that has absolutely transformed Halifax and will for another twenty years.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Naw, what was I thinking, Liberals will think they have already given Halifax the shipbuilding contract that has absolutely transformed Halifax and will for another twenty years.

But according to the local press and the news blogger Bousquet, it has been nothing but negatives for Halifax?

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder if it has been absolutely decided that the fast ferry will have right-of-way all the time.

What if there is a large container ship navigating down the Narrows to the Fairview terminal during early morning rush? Will Harbour Traffic Control give the ferry right of passage?

Except when required to prevent imminent danger to life and/or property, a vessel that is >150 m
(492’) LOA shall not transit the ‘Narrows’ at the same time as another vessel of the same LOA

LOA: ‘Length Overall’ measurement of a vessel in metres or feet

https://www.portofhalifax.ca/wp-cont...ember-2016.pdf

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by q12

Except when required to prevent imminent danger to life and/or property, a vessel that is >150 m
(492’) LOA shall not transit the ‘Narrows’ at the same time as another vessel of the same LOA

LOA: ‘Length Overall’ measurement of a vessel in metres or feet

https://www.portofhalifax.ca/wp-cont...ember-2016.pdf

That doesn't tell us anything about a ferry, it only addresses the case of two large vessels in the Narrows. The ferry would be nowhere near 150m long.

Anyway, the ferry would yield the ROW to large vessels, as the existing ferries already do.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

That would lead to no restrictions for the Marco Polo class Container ships to finally shut down Montreal.

There are already no restrictions for Explorer-class ships (of which CMA CGM Marco Polo is one). Two can berth end-to-end at the South End terminal.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Anyway, the ferry would yield the ROW to large vessels, as the existing ferries already do.

In which case the "fast" ferry may occasionally be not quite so fast, and could arrive at the downtown ferry terminal 15-20 minutes late or so. Downtown office managers had better be a forgiving lot.

I would also worry about fog occasionally causing problems and forcing the ferry to reduce speed. I realize fog is more of an issue in the outer harbour, but I can certainly recall fog making it's way into the Narrows occasionally when I lived in Halifax.

FWIW, I am not against the idea of a ferry service to downtown from the Mill Cove area, but I think reliability could be an issue. I remain a strong proponent of regional commuter rail in addition to any expansion of the ferry system. Halifax is closing in on 500,000 people and will only continue to grow into the foreseeable future. Commuter rail is inevitable. The city needs to stop dragging it's feet, and hold urgent discussions with the province, the feds and CNR to make this all happen.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder if it has been absolutely decided that the fast ferry will have right-of-way all the time.

No. You can't require a vessel with the size and momentum of a container ship to maneuver to give the ROW to a much smaller and more nimble vessel like a ferry.

[DigitalNinja]

I quite like this ferry as an option:
https://www.austal.com/news/austal-l...-speed-ferries

May be too large though, 400 passengers is quite a bit, not sure how much they cost either.

They quote the range has being 175NM "per day" I would assume this is not on a single charge and instead with rest periods while it's stopped?

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

There are already no restrictions for Explorer-class ships (of which CMA CGM Marco Polo is one). Two can berth end-to-end at the South End terminal.

Hi Saul , I was referring to the limitations a Marco Polo class would have transiting the Narrows to berth at Fairview. As time moves forward I can see the Port authority moving to develop the old Imperial Oil lands with its deep water berths as what else can you do with that type of land.

There is about to be another roaring Twenties decade as we come out of Covid and Halifax will not miss this one, like it did the 1920's, as we rebuilt after the 1917 Explosion.