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  #461  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
It isn't. If the Heritage part gets preserved, it's likely to be as a façade, but that'll be up to whoever buys the site.

You questioned all this back in February, and I explained then "There's supposed to be a review of how continued health care will be delivered in Downtown and the West End, that will probably see a new day-use facility developed. It isn't necessarily going to involve Providence Health, who run St Paul's and it's very unlikely to be on the St Paul's site.

The oldest part of the hospital dates back to 1912 and is Heritage 'A' - the most important category. That doesn't mean it's secure - it isn't designated or protected - the owner has to make that decision. As one of the reasons to get out of the existing building is its seismic state, it doesn't seem likely that the building will be saved in its entirety, but it's possible to imagine the façades being retained as part of a commercial element of a future development, perhaps as a hotel? Residential conversion (as new build behind the façade) might be an alternate scenario, with totally new structures (presumably residential) replacing all the more recent hospital buildings.

The new arrangements haven't been announced yet. They have already opened a Urgent Primary Care Centre on Hornby that operates 8am to 10pm. That covers some of the needs already, (although it's in a building that's now proposed for redevelopment). Whether there will be a 24/7 emergency room hasn't been clarified, but UBC and Mount Saint Joseph are both closed at night (and MSJ doesn't have an ICU any more either), so we operate with two today, and the new St Paul's will be much better than the existing facility."
I'm sensing the hostility from a mile away, pretty much as soon as we started talking. I get that we don't really have compatible posting styles.

But there's a reason I said MOST likely. I was half considering removing the second part of the comment because I knew exactly that the West End arrangements weren't fully established, and I was making an implicit hypotheses. I should have also seen that I'd be corrected like this because of that fact. I get it. Calm down.

The point is that the heritage building is fragile to earthquakes, and is the part that is most likely to stick around. That's solvable with structural renovations, and as far as I know, Providence doesn't have any other site in the West End. But that's more money to be spent either way it goes around- the 'problem'.
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  #462  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 7:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
I'm sensing the hostility from a mile away, pretty much as soon as we started talking. I get that we don't really have compatible posting styles.

But there's a reason I said MOST likely. I was half considering removing the second part of the comment because I knew exactly that the West End arrangements weren't fully established, and I was making an implicit hypotheses. I should have also seen that I'd be corrected like this because of that fact. I get it. Calm down.

The point is that the heritage building is fragile to earthquakes, and is the part that is most likely to stick around. That's solvable with structural renovations, and as far as I know, Providence doesn't have any other site in the West End. But that's more money to be spent either way it goes around- the 'problem'.
I'm calm. The old structure of St Paul's - or at least the facades, should remain, but not as a hospital. I'd be very surprised, given the age and alterations over the years if anything could be saved other than the facade, especially if they plan to put underground parking on site. Whatever West End long term medical centre is built will be somewhere else, because the entire site is for sale, with the hope of raising at least $700 million to help pay for the new hospital. It'll be up to the new owner to negotiate what they get to build, and whether they'll keep any of the existing buildings. The sale details don't say anything about future medical use on the site, which is why it's a pretty safe bet it'll be somewhere else. The Province have been very quiet about what, and where anything might be built to serve that part of Downtown and the West End, and unless you can find a promise, rather than vague statements, nothing is guaranteed yet.
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  #463  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 4:23 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
Maybe they can land-swap part of Molson for the MSJ site and a rezoning and rebuild MSJ there. Because in every option, Providence is going to end up needing both a West Side and East Side hospital.


Which is west and east in this scenario.

MSJ provides a few specialized services, but otherwise doesn't need to exist. Those services could easily be folded into an expansion at VGH or future St. Paul's expansion that is already accounted for (this is most likely IMO).

Look on a map and tell me how we need another hospital on the Molson lands. It doesn't make sense.

There is additional land owned by VCH very close to VGH. It had a building that was demolished and now sits empty. That could accommodate a healthcare facility in the future as well.
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  #464  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post


Which is west and east in this scenario.

MSJ provides a few specialized services, but otherwise doesn't need to exist. Those services could easily be folded into an expansion at VGH or future St. Paul's expansion that is already accounted for (this is most likely IMO).

Look on a map and tell me how we need another hospital on the Molson lands. It doesn't make sense.

There is additional land owned by VCH very close to VGH. It had a building that was demolished and now sits empty. That could accommodate a healthcare facility in the future as well.
I believe MSJ barely survived the BC Liberal cuts that took St. Marys in New West and the UBC Emergency through lobbying of Vancouver's traditional Chinese community who saw it as their hospital. Whether there would be as much of a fight now, who knows.
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  #465  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 6:19 PM
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I believe MSJ barely survived the BC Liberal cuts that took St. Marys in New West and the UBC Emergency through lobbying of Vancouver's traditional Chinese community who saw it as their hospital. Whether there would be as much of a fight now, who knows.
I think there would be the same push. Although if they try this in 8-10 years when the new SPH is up and running, and move programs there, they might get more support. Leaving a primary urgent care centre would help too.

And UBC still has emergency as far as I know, it's just not open 24/7, same as MSJ.
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  #466  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 7:37 PM
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There'll probably come a time where we do need a third 24/7 ER for the West Side - doesn't have to be Molson, but it's better to have a site and not need it.
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  #467  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 8:13 PM
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There'll probably come a time where we do need a third 24/7 ER for the West Side - doesn't have to be Molson, but it's better to have a site and not need it.
Probably cheapest just to extend UB's hours to 24/7 then.
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  #468  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post


Which is west and east in this scenario.

MSJ provides a few specialized services, but otherwise doesn't need to exist. Those services could easily be folded into an expansion at VGH or future St. Paul's expansion that is already accounted for (this is most likely IMO).

Look on a map and tell me how we need another hospital on the Molson lands. It doesn't make sense.

There is additional land owned by VCH very close to VGH. It had a building that was demolished and now sits empty. That could accommodate a healthcare facility in the future as well.
In this scenario, there are 3 hospitals in Vancouver (same as nowadays). One in Kits or the West End, one on the Flats, and one in Fairview.
Could you show me where?

I mean, yes, VGH has a block- sized parking lot behind it that it could build a new annex (it’s sized large enough to replace MSJ). But it’d pretty much be disconnected and act as a new hospital due to the site’s location and the existing hospital buildings. May as well build a new hospital elsewhere instead for geographical redundancy.

The reason is proximity to the West End, False Creek South, and Kitsilano (yes, I know about NIMBYs, but densification is ultimately inevitable), along with limited space on every single current site to expand without demolishing existing structures and/or reconfiguring the road network and/or going over the viewcones.

MSJ’s location is a bit redundant with St. Paul’s, so may as well trade it for a location in a place where it isn’t as redundant.

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Probably cheapest just to extend UB's hours to 24/7 then.
...? UBC is about as useful for most of Vancouver as Richmond General.
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  #469  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 3:51 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
Could you show me where?
The block at West 10th and Ash is healthcare/VCH owned and empty. Perfect spot for a ~10 story medical building, could have day surgery areas, etc.

The parking lot at Laurel and 12th recently got some upgrades, I think seismic. It's not going anywhere. It's also full every day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
MSJ’s location is a bit redundant with St. Paul’s, so may as well trade it for a location in a place where it isn’t as redundant.


...? UBC is about as useful for most of Vancouver as Richmond General.
Location wise, MSJ is already redundant with VGH as far as proximity goes. It's valuable land that should be redeveloped somehow, for healthcare or otherwise.

UBC is where I tell people to go if they need a daytime ER. It's quiet and a great hospital. If we ever densified the west side, UBC is an ideal hospital.
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  #470  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 5:08 PM
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The block at West 10th and Ash is healthcare/VCH owned and empty. Perfect spot for a ~10 story medical building, could have day surgery areas, etc.
Have we been off-topic about other hospitals long enough to get back to the new St Paul's yet?

The Ash Street site is reserved for the second phase of the Cancer Research buildings, but there are several other redevelopment proposals for the VGH campus that will allow additional facilities; they were reviewed most recently in another thread a couple of years ago. The PHIX project apparently didn't get funding yet though, but there's demolition on the campus of the old Health Services building on West 12th to allow further redevelopment in future, and there's a new surgical suite under construction currently.
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  #471  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 9:33 PM
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UBC is where I tell people to go if they need a daytime ER. It's quiet and a great hospital. If we ever densified the west side, UBC is an ideal hospital.
And the M-Line should go all the way to UBC by that point, so anybody west of Blenheim (Dunbar, Jericho) should find it easier to go there instead.
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  #472  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
The block at West 10th and Ash is healthcare/VCH owned and empty. Perfect spot for a ~10 story medical building, could have day surgery areas, etc.

The parking lot at Laurel and 12th recently got some upgrades, I think seismic. It's not going anywhere. It's also full every day.




Location wise, MSJ is already redundant with VGH as far as proximity goes. It's valuable land that should be redeveloped somehow, for healthcare or otherwise.

UBC is where I tell people to go if they need a daytime ER. It's quiet and a great hospital. If we ever densified the west side, UBC is an ideal hospital.
That site’s probably not large enough for replacing MSJ.

I was taking about the West End and Kits, not the West Side.
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  #473  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 8:31 PM
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https://www.kelticdevelopment.com/projects/prior-street

New proposal for strata office building on the border of the new hospital
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  #474  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 8:40 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Old site sold to Concord for $1B:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7269303/s...medium=Twitter
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  #475  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 9:55 PM
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Concord is a very well connected developer - that's not news. They had/have direct access to decisions makers and influence policy directly.

Massive vote of confidence from Concord on the future of Vancouver.
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  #476  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 10:01 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Concord is a very well connected developer - that's not news. They had/have direct access to decisions makers and influence policy directly.

Massive vote of confidence from Concord on the future of Vancouver.
That's true, it is a big vote of confidence. I was a little concerned that PHC wouldn't be able to get enough money out of this site in this market to fund what they wanted for the New St. Paul's.
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  #477  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 10:14 PM
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They had/have direct access to decisions makers and influence policy directly.
and access to a billion dollars apparently
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  #478  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 10:26 PM
Anorak Anorak is offline
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and access to a billion dollars apparently
There were references to the fact that amount is not set, and is based on the density they are able to achieve at the site. Additionally, its probably not all cash, it likely involves some kind of payment plan/debt.
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  #479  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 10:36 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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and access to a billion dollars apparently
They are a HK based developer - I wont pretend to know how they structure their affairs, but its likely a billion is a not an unimaginable sum of money to a developer of Concords global stature.
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  #480  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 12:45 AM
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What are the view cone restrictions over this site? One can hope that there will be pressure applied to relaxing them.
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