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  #421  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 4:38 AM
Elkhanan1 Elkhanan1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Home language, Montreal Jews (2011)

English 60,190 66.3%
French 16,195 17.8%
Yiddish 6,905 7.6%
Russian 4,115 4.5%
Hebrew 2,345 2.6%
Spanish 1,110 1.2%

https://www.jewishdatabank.org/conte...l%20Report.pdf
I wonder how much these figures have changed in the last 10 years? I'd wager that French has increased quite a bit. A lot of Jews from France have been relocating to Montreal given the growing climate of anti-semitism in their home country, although the vast majority of those leaving France are migrating to Israel. Also, quite a few Jews from Latin America, particularly from Argentina and to a lesser extent from Venezuela, have planted roots in Montreal so Spanish probably has grown too. I'm sure Yiddish has increased, due to high birthrates in the Hasidic community, and Russian too. I assume that Engish has declined as anglophone Jews continue to migrate to Toronto and other points in North America.
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  #422  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 5:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
English-speaking Montreal almost has a sort of mini-NY/Northeast Corridor demographic.

Speak English at home: 620,000 (2016 census)

Italian ancestry 120,000 19.4%
Jewish 60,000 9.7%

So about 30% of English-speaking Montrealers are Italian or Jewish. And more English-speaking Montrealers are of Italian than English ancestry.
They even have a bit of a US NE nasal accent thing going on.
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  #423  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 1:21 PM
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Is the Montreal data for city proper or metro area? I'm wondering if it captures those exurban Hasidic enclaves that would be Yiddish speaking.

Montreal might have the second largest share of (first language) Yiddish speakers in North America, possibly?
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  #424  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Is the Montreal data for city proper or metro area? I'm wondering if it captures those exurban Hasidic enclaves that would be Yiddish speaking.

Montreal might have the second largest share of (first language) Yiddish speakers in North America, possibly?
It's for the metro area so would include the Hasidim community in Boisbriand - Boisbriand is part of the metro.

In the breakdowns the Boisbriand community would be covered by "rest of Montreal".
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  #425  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 1:55 PM
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OK, makes sense. I wasn't sure of the size of the Hasidic community in Montreal.

There are few Hasidics worldwide outside of NY-NJ and obviously Israel. And Hasidics mostly speak Yiddish. So the Yiddish speaker count should be a rough proxy for this population, I think.
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  #426  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 2:16 PM
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OK, makes sense. I wasn't sure of the size of the Hasidic community in Montreal.

There are few Hasidics worldwide outside of NY-NJ and obviously Israel. And Hasidics mostly speak Yiddish. So the Yiddish speaker count should be a rough proxy for this population, I think.
In the Montreal area, Hasidim are in two areas: the outer suburb of Boisbriand and in the heart of the city in Outremont. In the latter case they rub shoulders with the French Canadian upper classes, for which Outremont is a traditional bastion. (For example the Trudeau family is from Outremont.)
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  #427  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 4:28 PM
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Lower Outremont has been Jewish for a long time, but 70 years ago it was a second settlement area for upwardly mobile Jews. Today it's a Hasidic community. Upper Outremont has long been the home of the francophone establishment.
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  #428  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 4:32 PM
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Montreal Jewish accent, former parliamentarian and Justice Minister Irwin Cotler:

https://www.genevasummit.org/irwin-c...geneva-summit/
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  #429  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 4:44 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Data is for Census Metropolitan Area. Montreal Island (or the urban agglomeration of Montreal - somewhat comparable to pre-amalgamation Metropolitan Toronto) is more diverse. The outer metro is much more monolithically francophone Quebecois. Most Jews and other ethnic minorities live on the island.

66% of the metro speak French at home, 50% on Montreal Island.
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Last edited by Docere; Jan 6, 2021 at 5:17 PM.
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  #430  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 7:01 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
In the Montreal area, Hasidim are in two areas: the outer suburb of Boisbriand and in the heart of the city in Outremont. In the latter case they rub shoulders with the French Canadian upper classes, for which Outremont is a traditional bastion. (For example the Trudeau family is from Outremont.)

Parizeau, Johnson, et al, among others, but Trudeau was from Westmount, and his last house was on Pine Avenue, above downtown.
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  #431  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
Parizeau, Johnson, et al, among others, but Trudeau was from Westmount, and his last house was on Pine Avenue, above downtown.
I know he lived in Westmount (or Montreal at the Westmount limits?) in his later life, but I thought his family's roots were more in Outremont: born on Rue Durocher, and then moved to a more posh house on Av. McCulloch at one point.
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  #432  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2021, 5:14 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know he lived in Westmount (or Montreal at the Westmount limits?) in his later life, but I thought his family's roots were more in Outremont: born on Rue Durocher, and then moved to a more posh house on Av. McCulloch at one point.

Could be he was born in Outremont but he was baptized at St-Léon-de-Westmount parish church. The house on Pine is at least a good km from the Westmount border, I think.
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  #433  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2021, 7:32 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Using 35% as the cutoff for an enclave, 41% of Montreal Jews and 35% of Toronto Jews live in such census tracts. 20% of Toronto Jews and 18% of Montreal Jews live in majority-Jewish CTs.
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  #434  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 3:17 PM
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Almost all north of the Thames. I guess this is based on the British equivalent of Census Tracts?
The current Jewish population centres are primarily focused on the Golders Green to Stanmore corridor in the north-west, and Stamford Hill in the north. London’s Jewish population is most certainly not comparable to the likes of New York. London also has fewer Christians, with a higher share of people following other faiths and not identifying with any religion altogether.

The earliest written record of the Jewish population in London goes back to the 11th century, but in 1290, King Edward’s Edict of Expulsion sought to expel all Jews, a decree that wasn’t overturned until 1657. Waves of European Jews subsequently migrated to the country, typically in the wake of volatility on the continent. The core of

Jewish life in London was historically concentrated in the City (Bevis Marks Synagogue in the City has been holding services for some 320 years) and the adjoining area to the east of Spitalfields: https://romanroadlondon.com/wp-conte...ondon-1899.jpg. The last large wave of Jewish migration was in the period leading up to WW2, with the most famous being the Kindertransport rescue. After the war, the Jewish population continued to grow, but at a far slower pace relative to the incoming flows of people who practised other faiths. Some migrated to the new state of Israel or simply assimilated into general British society.
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  #435  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2021, 4:51 AM
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London and adjacent areas were home to 65% of all English Jews in 2011 (latest census data). More than a third of London Jews and 20% of the Jews in England and Wales live in the borough of Barnet (which includes Finchley and Golders Green).


10 most Jewish locations, 2011

Barnet (Greater London) 54,084
Hackney (Greater London) 15,477
Hertsmere (Hertfordshire) 14,293
Harrow (Greater London) 10,538
Bury (Greater Manchester) 10,302
Redbridge (Greater London) 10,213
Camden (Greater London) 9,823
Salford (Greater Manchester) 7,687
Haringey (Greater London) 7,643
Westminster (Greater London) 7,237

https://www.bod.org.uk/wp-content/up...alFindings.pdf

Not surprisingly it is the Orthodox areas that are growing:

"The picture this paints is of two very different demographic processes taking place among Britain’s Jews. On the one hand, it shows us that areas with large numbers of Orthodox Jews are growing expeditiously...On the other hand, areas in the regional Jewish periphery and in the urban periphery of London that contain mostly non-Orthodox Jews are experiencing substantial contraction. There appears to be one important exception, and that is the very strong growth in Hertfordshire, whose Jewish population has increased from 16,885 in 2001 to 21,345 in 2011
(an increase of 26.4%)
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  #436  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2021, 7:22 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Manchester and Leeds were the largest centers of provincial British Jewry. Manchester's Jewish population has held up and has a sizeable Orthodox population. Leeds, an important center for cloth manufacturing, had something like 25,000 Jews a century ago but it's dropped to something like 7,000 today.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/c...uture-in-leeds
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  #437  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2021, 5:37 PM
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NYC's major Jewish concentrations, from 1957. This is when the Jewish population was its peak, and captures a time when old neighborhoods were still intact but the population was shifting to central and eastern Queens, Nassau and Westchester.

https://www.jewishdatabank.org/conte...ain_Report.pdf

Manhattan

Lower East Side 70,480 33.7%
Park West 70,920 28.8%
Washington Heights 68,165 35.2%

Bronx

Hunts Point 14,810 40.9%
West Bronx 121,434 65.1%
Morrisania 72,440 32.1%
Fordham 102,481 47.8%
Tremont 42,484 32.3%
Pelham Parkway 61,629 47.6%

Brooklyn

Williamsburg 43,412 29.1%
Crown Heights 58,397 39.2%
Borough Park 63,504 55.6%
Flatbush 123,590 51.7%
East Flatbush-Brownsville 95,652 55.4%
East New York-Jamaica Bay 89,557 60.6%
Flatlands-Canarsie 28,000 63.9%
Bensonhurst 59,549 33.6%
Gravesend 51,288 50.1%
Midwood-Marine Park 64,305 45.7%
Sheepshead Bay 47,749 53.7%
Coney Island-Manhattan Beach 44,659 59.8%

Queens

Forest Hills, Rego Park 73,462 66.2%
Bayside-Oakland Gardens 39,030 42.8%
Central Queens 50,672 43.6%
Douglaston, Little Neck, Bellerose 31,525 39.5%
Rockaway 29,605 46%

Nassau

North Hempstead 55,600 27%
Oyster Bay 55,200 20.9%
Hempstead 218,300 31.9%

Westchester

New Rochelle 22,500 31.2%
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  #438  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2022, 10:48 PM
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I know about the size of NYC’s Polish population and Greenpoint and everything. I’m just wondering what percentage of them are actually ethnically Polish (Catholic)? Polish Jews, Russian Jews, German Jews, etc. typically identify as “Jewish,” not Polish, Russian, and German, respectively. And studies show that, say, Polish Jews have more genetic similarities with Russian or German Jews than they do “real” Poles. My assumption has always been that a majority of NYC Poles are Jewish. Same thing with the large German population. Anecdotally, I’ve rarely come across NYers with surnames like Schmidt, Hoffmann, Zimmermann, etc.
Ashkenazi Jews are an ethnic group and the ancestry question is complicated for Jews. During the turn of the 20th century immigration, the distinction between "Russian", "Polish" and "Romanian" didn't matter much. It was really one stream of Yiddish-speaking Eastern European Jews.
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  #439  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2022, 10:51 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I know about the size of NYC’s Polish population and Greenpoint and everything. I’m just wondering what percentage of them are actually ethnically Polish (Catholic)? Polish Jews, Russian Jews, German Jews, etc. typically identify as “Jewish,” not Polish, Russian, and German, respectively. And studies show that, say, Polish Jews have more genetic similarities with Russian or German Jews than they do “real” Poles. My assumption has always been that a majority of NYC Poles are Jewish. Same thing with the large German population. Anecdotally, I’ve rarely come across NYers with surnames like Schmidt, Hoffmann, Zimmermann, etc.
None of those neighborhoods have a visible Jewish population. Maybe some secular Jews in Greenpoint, due to all the gentrification, but the Jewish population in Ridgewood, Middle Village, Glendale and Maspeth has to be near-zero. Probably as non-Jewish as any white geography in NYC.

There were probably many older Polish Jews in NYC, but mostly gone now, and not sure how many would identify as Polish, given "Poland" changed boundaries a half-dozen times in the 20th century. Could be German, Russian, Ukrainian, or Slovak. In any case, they wouldn't be in those neighborhoods.
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  #440  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2022, 10:55 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Even if a third or fourth Jewish American writes "Polish" on the ancestry question (maybe along with Russian too), they wouldn't call themselves Polish or identify with the Polish community.
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