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  #7581  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 10:04 PM
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That photo of Nick's that is quoted above, I feel it's a good example of why these mechanical floors are not all that bad. They appear to half blend in and don't distract your eye from following the distinct vertical lines and gradated glass of this tower. All in all, an undeniable win for Lakeshore East and for Chicago.
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  #7582  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 3:52 AM
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  #7583  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 7:24 AM
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heck yeah. getting so close
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  #7584  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 1:33 PM
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The blow-thru lighting looks to be permanent. I thought it would be a black abyss up there, so this is welcome to see. Almost looks like an occupied floor.
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  #7585  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 5:58 PM
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Was that blow-through area structurally necessary? Hard to believe as there are wider, taller towers that don't need such a feature.
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  #7586  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 6:00 PM
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here we go again......
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  #7587  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 6:04 PM
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Sorry, I haven't been following this thread from the beginning. If it was already discussed in this thread I'd love to have the post number / timeframe.
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  #7588  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 7:41 PM
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TLDR: original design was skinnier and didn't need the blow thru, but developers wanted bigger floorplates which a wind study found would cause an unacceptable level of swaying on the upper floors for such class tower. I'm sure Gang / structural engineers provided a few different mitigation solutions (at least in serious discussion) and the developers chose the blow thru option.

In addition to the blow thru the tower also has slosh tanks up top
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  #7589  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyguy_7 View Post
The blow-thru lighting looks to be permanent. I thought it would be a black abyss up there, so this is welcome to see. Almost looks like an occupied floor.
I'm glad if it is. I wish they kept the blue lights. Looked kinda nice.
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  #7590  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2020, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toasty Joe View Post
TLDR: original design was skinnier and didn't need the blow thru, but developers wanted bigger floorplates which a wind study found would cause an unacceptable level of swaying on the upper floors for such class tower. I'm sure Gang / structural engineers provided a few different mitigation solutions (at least in serious discussion) and the developers chose the blow thru option.

In addition to the blow thru the tower also has slosh tanks up top
This is not true.
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  #7591  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2020, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
This is not true.
Its somewhat true..
The thinnest points of the tower got wider, but the widest portions stayed the same width which did increase the surface area of the building. I am not sure if that contributed more to wind loads than the small height increase to the top frustums though
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  #7592  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2020, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiTownWonder View Post
Its somewhat true..
The thinnest points of the tower got wider, but the widest portions stayed the same width which did increase the surface area of the building. I am not sure if that contributed more to wind loads than the small height increase to the top frustums though
The blow-through floor was simply the result of a mistake. It had nothing to do with increasing the width of he building on a few of the floors.

The team published this nonsense to try to cover up their huge mistake. The design did change to reduce the changes in SF in the floors, but that was a direct result of the shit show the condo floor plans are even now... it's not easy to design the same floor plan for a unit that changes 3 to 4 feet across its entire exterior walls without some very awkward and bizarre consequences...

the developer did not force an increase in some of the condo plans (which did not change bedroom/bath counts at all) only to sacrifice some of the most prime SF in the entire project at the blow through and reduce the number of units to be sold...

the a/e team just realized way too late that the shear strength of the building was inadequate... wouldn't be the first time this has happened with a high profile skyscraper... (google the john hancock building in Boston and the citicorp tower in NYC)
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  #7593  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2020, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
The blow-through floor was simply the result of a mistake. It had nothing to do with increasing the width of he building on a few of the floors.

The team published this nonsense to try to cover up their huge mistake. The design did change to reduce the changes in SF in the floors, but that was a direct result of the shit show the condo floor plans are even now... it's not easy to design the same floor plan for a unit that changes 3 to 4 feet across its entire exterior walls without some very awkward and bizarre consequences...

the developer did not force an increase in some of the condo plans (which did not change bedroom/bath counts at all) only to sacrifice some of the most prime SF in the entire project at the blow through and reduce the number of units to be sold...

the a/e team just realized way too late that the shear strength of the building was inadequate... wouldn't be the first time this has happened with a high profile skyscraper... (google the john hancock building in Boston and the citicorp tower in NYC)
How do you do know this information? Were you directly involved in the development? Were you part of the development team?
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  #7594  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 8:21 PM
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^direct access to the CD team
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  #7595  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
^direct access to the CD team
Well that's disappointing then. Still I think the blow through is the least hideous discrepancy in the design.
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  #7596  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
^direct access to the CD team
So you're saying bKL, who is the architect of record (not Studio Gang), messed up the design during CDs, and that the information released about that was a cover-up, is that correct?
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  #7597  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2020, 3:14 PM
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^bKL is not responsible for either the design or the engineering...
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  #7598  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2020, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
^bKL is not responsible for either the design or the engineering...
You are spreading blatant misinformation: bKL is the Architect of Record.

"Consultant Team

bKL Architecture, architect of record

Gensler, hotel architect

HBA, interior architect

Magnusson Klemencic Associates, structural engineer

dbHMS, MEP design assist

Mackie Consultants, civil engineer

OLIN, landscape architect

CDC, facade consultant"

The above is taken directly from Studio Gang's website:
https://studiogang.com/project/vista-tower

As AOR, they are directly responsible for the design and engineering of a building.

A design team with the experience of the firms listed above does not simply make 'a huge mistake', nor would they cover up something as massive as requiring a blow-through floor. I firmly believe Occam's razor, in that the changes were Owner-directed, which required the design team to come up with the solution of the blow-through floor. If this was truly a mistake on the part of the design team, they would have been fired a long time ago, regardless of whatever relationship Magellan has with bKL or Studio Gang. Clients, owners change their minds A LOT, even during construction; it is their prerogative, especially if they feel it would improve a project, and assuming they have the money to do so.

Nearly 20 years ago, I had just completed grad school and was hired by a firm during CA phase of a large educational building at UC. The Dean of the college didn't like the orientation of the suite of admin offices, as he wanted to have a view of the students entering the building from the second floor where the offices were located, so the decision was made to rotate over 10,000 sq ft of office space by 90 degress(!!!) to accommodate the Owner's request. This was after a construction permit was issued for the project, and during framing of the steel structure. The university gave their blessing because the Dean of this particular department held a lot influence, so they were willing to shell out millions to change everything, which entailed: coordinated civil/architectural/structural/MEPFP/landscape drawings, additional permit submission to reflect the design change, multiple change order to account for the fact that the steel framing was already up, not to mention required additional structural support to cantilever the offices in the desired, new orientation. IIRC it was between $8-10 million in combined change orders so that the Dean could be happy. All Owner-directed, and the design team willingly obliged.

Architects, engineers are professional, licensed consultants, all understand fully how little margin of error there is on projects even for small change orders, let alone massive alterations such as a blow-through floor.
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Last edited by sentinel; Nov 8, 2020 at 10:26 PM.
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  #7599  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
As AOR, they are directly responsible for the design and engineering of a building.
When the AOR is not also the design architect it generally means they provide construction documents and administration services based on the designs from the design architect. The design is the responsibility of the design architect not the Architect of Record. Neither is the engineering. I might add that this is an especially common arrangement (having a local AoR) when the design architect is from a different city or country.
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  #7600  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
When the AOR is not also the design architect it generally means they provide construction documents and administration services based on the designs from the design architect. The design is the responsibility of the design architect not the Architect of Record. Neither is the engineering. I might add that this is an especially common arrangement (having a local AoR) when the design architect is from a different city or country.
The AOR is responsible for all consultants under their agreement and their work, whether engineers or design architect. My comment was in direct response to the previous poster saying that bKL was not involved in the design or engineering.
In some instances, there are separate prime agreements between the Owner and design architect, AOR and EORs, but that is not typical for large projects where coordination between consultants is critical to project delivery, such as this.
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