Winnipeg Jets

[Biff]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ its got to be tough for these kinds of players. Highly skilled offensive players that come into the NHL just outside of the top tier.....stuck with unskilled players on the checking line, getting 8 minutes a game....suddenly thrust into a role he has never played and having to do it at the highest level. Occasionally he gets a handful of games with better players and is judged immediately as a failure if he cant produce right away. It seems weird to have to work your way up to district manager of sales by proving you can be a good janitor first.

I agree with you 100% on this...it must be hard. I just think he is going about it all wrong and could stain his career as a whiner. I think he is a good hockey player, he just doesn't fit in with the Jets.

Copp is an example who would love to/thinks he is good enough to play top six and fills in well when given the opportunity. He is doing everything right. Nose down, grinds hard and does whatever the team asks of him. He is a great team player and would be coveted by any NHL team. Ideally this is how Roslovic "should" be playing. Because he is not, I say - see ya later.

I think if I remember right HNIC did a story on, I believe Guy Carbonneau who had pretty much the same situation. High scoring, high skilled in junior but couldn't crack the top 6 as a player. He retooled his game and became one of the NHL greats as a defensive forward.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

Not arguing here, just spewing my opinion...

The issue with Roslovic is not the Jets, but with Roslovic himself. He thinks he is a top six player. He may be on another team, but not with the Jets. I challenge anyone to come up with an argument that places him in our top six.

This unfortunately happens with a number of NHL players, another example Jets fans are familiar with is Evander Kane. The age bracketed and hyper regional focus on youth hockey means that naturally gifted players are often well ahead of their peer groups. This develops somewhat of a false self-worth of your true value as a player. When you finally reach the stage where the regionalization opens up and the age bracket expands some the breadth of the players can still keep you riding the bubble as one of the best players out there.

Suddenly your bubble rises enough and you land in the NHL with an even narrower base of players and an approximately 15 year age range and it is a lot harder to stand out as one of the elite players.

Aa Biff was saying, instead of sitting at home, sign a two year bridge deal to get to unrestricted free agency, get your butt to the team, work hard at rounding out your skill set to what the team needs you to do, take advantage of the game time you get and politely push for a trade behind the scenes. The only thing sitting out at home does is help you slide further out of the mind of GMs on other teams that could be looking for a player to pickup.

[bomberjet]

The taxi squad is to ensure that the teams have enough players, regardless of what is happening in the minors. Some teams have shut down for the year. The Moose are now the Canucks farm team for this year.

Taxi squad players are also permitted to practice with the NHL team. AHL players are not.

Otherwise the rules seem to be the same for taxi squad and AHL. Waivers to clear, salary is AHL (IIRC).

[Biff]

Well, I would have hoped the Jets could have done a little better in this trade but....Roslovic essentially became useless to us and made it impossible for Chevy to get any value for him.

I actually don’t mind Laine for Dubois. He is a quality centre that will give Winnipeg real depth down the middle. Lots of people think that Laine is not really hurt and quit on the Jets. Tough to know, but Laine has never been one to give maximum effort.

[buzzg]

I'm sure my initial rage of trading Laine will calm down as PLD is good. A few thoughts on this trade:
- It didn't seem like Laine gave a hard trade request, but wanted that or more minutes. We'll probably never know how serious it was.
- WTF was the point of getting Stastny? We brought him in to play with Laine, and now shipped out Laine for another centre? So we either traded Laine for a third line centre, or we will be paying $7m USD for a third centre? Where does Lowry go?
- We have had no trouble scoring, we needed a defenceman.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by buzzg

- We have had no trouble scoring, we needed a defenceman.

I don't think too many NHL-calibre defenseman have dads already coaching in Winnipeg.

An interesting trade to see how things shake out for both sides. I imagine Kekalainen will light some sort of fire under Laine's backside, but you're correct in that WPG still sorely need an improved defense to pose any sort of threat moving forward. Hellebuyck can only stop so many high scoring chances.

[esquire]

The top 6 is in great shape, goaltending is in great shape. If the Jets have at least one of their young defensemen step up to the next level quickly (Heinola? Stanley? not looking like Niku will at this point) and Chevy can trade for a sound vet to provide some defensive depth, then the Jets could be on to something.

The relationship with Laine falling apart hurts on an emotional level ("whyyy doesn't he love us anymore") but looking at it dispassionately not a ton has changed, the Jets still have to fill the same missing defensive pieces to be a serious contender.

I was curious about what I saw on social media where a reporter (can't remember who) quoted Wheeler as expressing some regret over how he handled his relationship with Laine... it would be interesting to hear a little more about that.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

The top 6 is in great shape, goaltending is in great shape. If the Jets have at least one of their young defensemen step up to the next level quickly (Heinola? Stanley? not looking like Niku will at this point) and Chevy can trade for a sound vet to provide some defensive depth, then the Jets could be on to something.

The relationship with Laine falling apart hurts on an emotional level ("whyyy doesn't he love us anymore") but looking at it dispassionately not a ton has changed, the Jets still have to fill the same missing defensive pieces to be a serious contender.

I was curious about what I saw on social media where a reporter (can't remember who) quoted Wheeler as expressing some regret over how he handled his relationship with Laine... it would be interesting to hear a little more about that.

Wheeler seems to have more clout than he should, it was Wheeler who stood in the way of Laine on the top line, trouble with that is one guy is/was an up and coming star who managed a couple 40 goal seasons and the other a player now past his prime trying to hang on!

[esquire]

^ It is weird how much clout Wheeler is rumoured to have... maybe that made sense 5 years ago but at 34 years old he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.

I realize you can't keep everyone but the Jets track record of retaining talent has become very questionable. I'm willing to write Kane off because he just seems like a real piece of work, but Trouba, Byfuglien, Kane, Roslovic, Laine.. I get that there's always some rationalization for each one but there is clearly a picture emerging here.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It is weird how much clout Wheeler is rumoured to have... maybe that made sense 5 years ago but at 34 years old he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.

I realize you can't keep everyone but the Jets track record of retaining talent has become very questionable. I'm willing to write Kane off because he just seems like a real piece of work, but Trouba, Byfuglien, Kane, Roslovic, Laine.. I get that there's always some rationalization for each one but there is clearly a picture emerging here.

How are most of those on that list doing now? Kane a bankrupt bust, Buff out of hockey, Toruba not so great as Pionk had double the points last year, Roslovic hasn't done much in his career to date. Chevy is pretty shrewd I like the trade today gives us the best centre ice depth in the league and gives us more options to use Lowry and Stastny in creative ways to be an offensive juggernaut. Lets face it we are Winnipeg not NYC or Montreal or LA we will never be a destination players are seeking to live in it is what it is we are a blue collar lunch pale city that will struggle to attract players just like Buffalo and Edmonton do.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by thurmas

How are most of those on that list doing now? Kane a bankrupt bust, Buff out of hockey, Toruba not so great as Pionk had double the points last year, Roslovic hasn't done much in his career to date.

Their current status has no relevance to the fact that they all wanted out of Winnipeg at different times.

[drew]

In that list Buff doesn't belong.

He wanted out of hockey, all evidence pointed towards him enjoying the city and organization.

IMO, if anything this trade shows that Chevy is learning from past mistakes. Instead of letting a disgruntled player remain to fester, he traded two ofnthem quick. Ripped off the bandaid.

I think ultimately there is a certain personality type that will never work out long term in this City. We just have to accept that.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I'm sure my initial rage of trading Laine will calm down as PLD is good. A few thoughts on this trade:
- It didn't seem like Laine gave a hard trade request, but wanted that or more minutes. We'll probably never know how serious it was.
- WTF was the point of getting Stastny? We brought him in to play with Laine, and now shipped out Laine for another centre? So we either traded Laine for a third line centre, or we will be paying $7m USD for a third centre? Where does Lowry go?
- We have had no trouble scoring, we needed a defenceman.

I think its a long term thing. Stastny is on a 1 year deal, is 35 and may not sign again next year

PLD is 22 and could be a future, legit 1C for the team when Scheif is older, in addition to being a 1B right now. He seems to really look forward to going to Winnipeg, his parents live there, and he balances the team out and there is a chance of signing long term on a more manageable deal

Laine might be a very rare talent, but centres like PLD dont grow on trees either, and that is what wins cups. With perfetti the Jets dont have to force him to play C and he could very well be a solid winger in the future

Lots of elements at play. Of course, we dont know the contract/asking price Laine was asking for

[pspeid]

Players leave cities all the time, including NYC, Montreal and LA. Yes as a small market team, Winnipeg will always have to hustle a lot more to recruit and keep players. I think think that reflects more on the nature of the business of professional sports than it does with the value of the city. Pro athletes and their agents are going to want to gravitate towards markets that offer them greater opportunities to earn $$ for promotional tie-ins/merchandise, as much as the salary they are paid by their teams. At this point I choose to ignore the tiresome and predictable opinion pieces that dwell on the tiresome old "what's wrong with us/we're so pathetic" mantra that some folks inexplicably cling to.

As for the Jets this season, my guess is that the team feels some of their farm talent can step up on D and make that corps adequate, if not spectacular. With a very strong offence, adequate D and good goaltending (and avoid too many injuries, of course), the Jets may be able to make some waves this year.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

In that list Buff doesn't belong.

He wanted out of hockey, all evidence pointed towards him enjoying the city and organization.

IMO, if anything this trade shows that Chevy is learning from past mistakes. Instead of letting a disgruntled player remain to fester, he traded two ofnthem quick. Ripped off the bandaid.

I think ultimately there is a certain personality type that will never work out long term in this City. We just have to accept that.

There are lots of rationalizations that get thrown around... Kane's a head case, Trouba was worried about his wife's employment opportunities, Byfuglien wanted out of hockey, Laine was frustrated about his opportunities, etc. but it doesn't change the troubling fact that Winnipeg has an abnormally high number of key players who want out for whatever reason.

I get that you can't keep everyone but I find it a little eyebrow raising how quickly the impressive 2017-18 core of this team has fallen apart. I mean, it's great that Cheveldayoff was at least able to get a decent return for Laine and Roslovic but you have to be at least somewhat alarmed by the pattern here.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I think its a long term thing. Stastny is on a 1 year deal, is 35 and may not sign again next year

With Laine gone and PLD in town you have to think there is no real purpose for Stastny here anymore. He finishes this season and then he's gone.

[thurmas]

Also in the salary cap era we are in every team will have it's flaws you won't have super stacked teams like in the 90's with Detroit and Colorado that were stacked top to bottom on forwards D and goaltending that's just not possible now. We have excellent offense and goaltending but suspect D we just have to ride it our and hopefully it plays out like the Jets of the 70's WHA that dominated with overwhelming offense.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are lots of rationalizations that get thrown around... Kane's a head case, Trouba was worried about his wife's employment opportunities, Byfuglien wanted out of hockey, Laine was frustrated about his opportunities, etc. but it doesn't change the troubling fact that Winnipeg has an abnormally high number of key players who want out for whatever reason.

I get that you can't keep everyone but I find it a little eyebrow raising how quickly the impressive 2017-18 core of this team has fallen apart. I mean, it's great that Cheveldayoff was at least able to get a decent return for Laine and Roslovic but you have to be at least somewhat alarmed by the pattern here.

I don't think its anything wrong with the club though that is causing it not much can be done in this regard. Maurice by all accounts is a great communicator and good players coach unlike Torts. Chevy is a pretty good GM especially on draft day every year and the ownership is rock solid.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Players leave cities all the time, including NYC, Montreal and LA. Yes as a small market team, Winnipeg will always have to hustle a lot more to recruit and keep players. I think think that reflects more on the nature of the business of professional sports than it does with the value of the city. Pro athletes and their agents are going to want to gravitate towards markets that offer them greater opportunities to earn $$ for promotional tie-ins/merchandise, as much as the salary they are paid by their teams. At this point I choose to ignore the tiresome and predictable opinion pieces that dwell on the tiresome old "what's wrong with us/we're so pathetic" mantra that some folks inexplicably cling to.

As for the Jets this season, my guess is that the team feels some of their farm talent can step up on D and make that corps adequate, if not spectacular. With a very strong offence, adequate D and good goaltending (and avoid too many injuries, of course), the Jets may be able to make some waves this year.

The Jets are the sort of team that might have only 10 good shifts in a game, but will score 4 times on those ten. They're explosive. It feels like cheating to win that way, but it's not. You put your money where it's most effective, and an A+ offence, A+ goaltending and B- defence is not a bad combination.

[Biff]

People have to stop throwing Buff on a list when saying Winnipeg has a tough time retaining talent. They retained him for 8 years. He loved it here. He left because he wanted out of hockey, pure and simple.

Kane was a clown and I'm glad they got rid of him.

Trouba was unfortunate, but we got some really good years from him and arguably Chevy made a pretty good trade to get Pionk. I'm not sure there is much more they could have done. His girlfriend wanted to go to school in the states, they are American. It was a good ride.

I said previously, Roslovic didn't fit in with our talented forwards. If he was playing top six I guarantee he would have stayed. But I challenge anyone to pose an argument of who he would replace in our top six. He wasn't good enough and we got rid of him. I do believe Chevy blew it by not trading him last year, but apparently his return wasn't very high.

I think everyone knows that Winnipeg just isn't the destination that attracts players. We have to understand that it is hard to convince some to come and likewise hard to keep some from wanting to leave. I believe we are always going to have that. I am not thrilled with the Laine trade but not upset either.

I believe that Dubois fills a needed spot on the Jets (hopefully long term) making them stronger, where as I think Laine will struggle in Columbus because he is and will be lacking a high end centre to get him the puck like the last few years here in Winnipeg.