CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[F1 Tommy]

Looks like Icelandair is back today, with a 737 8 MAX no less. They have been promising a return for several months.

[Rnelson]

Originally Posted by twister244

I really want Emirates to bring the A380 to ORD. I only say that though as I think I will be in Dubai towards the end of the year for a bit before coming back here for the holidays and want to get an A380 run in before the thing is no longer being produced.

That would be nice but with many carriers starting to retire their A380s I wouldn't count on it. The last A380 to be built was delivered to Emirates back in March so production has officially already ceased. Sad but true.

[Chicagoguy]

I traveled through ORD this week and was surprised at how much progress has been made on Terminal 5. I wasn’t able to get any good pictures though, but I was very excited to see this!

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

I traveled through ORD this week and was surprised at how much progress has been made on Terminal 5. I wasn’t able to get any good pictures though, but I was very excited to see this!

Cool! Have they finished with the framework and started with walls and windows? Also, how does it look from the inside?

[kbud]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Cool! Have they finished with the framework and started with walls and windows? Also, how does it look from the inside?

Not that far: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/power...863388672-MbSw

[jonesrmj]

^ Thanks for sharing the link. Here are the pictures from it:











Sorry I couldn't figure out how to resize these images.

It looks like some of the existing gates got new jetways as well.

[Steely Dan]

so, how about the HUGE united jet buy:

200 - 737 MAX

70 - A321 NEO


said to be replacing lots of smaller regional jets.

let's hope the hometown airline is planning to up-gauge a lot of former regional flights out of ORD in the coming years.

could be a big competitive advantage for them over american in the local market.

[jonesrmj]

United Adds 270 Boeing and Airbus Aircraft to Fleet, Largest Order in Airline's History and Biggest by a Single Carrier in a Decade

CHICAGO, June 29, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines today announced the purchase of 270 new Boeing and Airbus aircraft - the largest combined order in the airline's history and the biggest by an individual carrier in the last decade. The 'United Next' plan will have a transformational effect on the customer experience and is expected to increase the total number of available seats per domestic departure by almost 30%, significantly lower carbon emissions per seat and create tens of thousands of quality, unionized jobs by 2026, all efforts that will have a positive, ripple effect across the broader U.S. economy.

When combined with the current order book, United expects to introduce more than 500 new, narrow-body aircraft: 40 in 2022, 138 in 2023 and as many as 350 in 2024 and beyond. That means in 2023 alone, United's fleet will, on average, add about one new narrow-body aircraft every three days.

United's new aircraft order – 50 737 MAX 8s, 150 737 MAX 10s and 70 A321neos – will come with a new signature interior that includes seat-back entertainment in every seat, larger overhead bins for every passenger's carry-on bag and the industry's fastest available in-flight WiFi, as well as a bright look-and-feel with LED lighting. The airline expects to fly the first 737 MAX 8 with the signature interior this summer and to begin flying the 737 MAX 10 and the Airbus A321neo in early 2023.

What's more, United intends to upgrade 100% of its mainline, narrow-body fleet to these standards by 2025, an extraordinary retrofit project that, when combined with the number of new aircraft joining the fleet, means United will deliver its state-of-the-art inflight experience to tens of millions of customers at an unprecedented pace.

https://hub.united.com/united-adds-2...653586391.html
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...nes-fleet.html

[twister244]

Very nice! Not the biggest United fan, but happy to see them upgrading....

It's interesting to see the choice of aircraft. Am I wrong to assume they are betting on more hub/spoke travel, or is this just to replace several aging aircraft across the board, and doesn't really reflect where they think the industry is going?

[F1 Tommy]

Still strange times at ORD. Although it is back on top with the most departures daily strange flights are still coming in.

Latest airlines to add more service is LATAM with 777-300 to SA and Canadian Cargojet with 767-300F aircraft to CA. This adds to the service from Air Canada for cargo using 787 and 777 aircraft. Funny thing is MDW does almost no cargo. Should have lengthened those runways years ago by buying houses around the airport like they did at ORD. Now the extra Chicagoland cargo business is going to RFD.

[F1 Tommy]

Also Icelandair will upgrade to 757-200 starting July 2nd to ORD. First flight will use the Icelandair (Aurora Borealis Livery) 757. That has the be the prettiest color scheme flying right now.

[Kngkyle]

The biggest emphasis of the United presentation was reducing the use of smaller regional jets, replacing them with the larger 737 and A321s. ORD is the hub most significantly impacted by this since they fly more RJs out of ORD than any other (in total and in %). On top of this upgauging (they want to increase the average # of seats per departure by 30%) they also stated they want to increase the number of flights out of their mid-continent hubs (DEN,IAH,ORD) by ~100 each by 2026.

That is going to be an almost 50% increase in capacity at ORD by 2026, from around 40M to 60M. Those satellite terminals are definitely going to be needed, especially if AA responds with growth of their own. I don't know how they can even manage that growth with the current terminal space and the seemingly delayed satellites.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

The biggest emphasis of the United presentation was reducing the use of smaller regional jets, replacing them with the larger 737 and A321s. ORD is the hub most significantly impacted by this since they fly more RJs out of ORD than any other (in total and in %). On top of this upgauging (they want to increase the average # of seats per departure by 30%) they also stated they want to increase the number of flights out of their mid-continent hubs (DEN,IAH,ORD) by ~100 each by 2026.

That is going to be an almost 50% increase in capacity at ORD by 2026, from around 40M to 60M. Those satellite terminals are definitely going to be needed, especially if AA responds with growth of their own. I don't know how they can even manage that growth with the current terminal space and the seemingly delayed satellites.

Once the Terminal 5 expansion completes and Delta moves its operations there, then the old Terminal 2 can be demolished and the Global Terminal and Satellite Concourses can begin construction. The Terminal 5 expansion was supposed to be complete this year but I'm guessing that based on the progress in the pictures posted above, it could complete late 2021 - early 2022. The satellite concourses were originally planned to begin construction in 2022 so even if worst case scenario and the Terminal 5 expansion doesn't complete until early 2022, then the satellite concourses could hopefully still be on schedule.

I am curious on how they will reconfigure flights once the Global Terminal/Sattelite concourses open. My guess is that T1 will be United domestic, T3 will be American domestic, and the Global Terminal/Sattelite concourses will be American/United international and Oneworld/Star Alliance partner flights. Delta, Skyteam Alliance partners, and nonaffiliated airlines will be in T5.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

The biggest emphasis of the United presentation was reducing the use of smaller regional jets, replacing them with the larger 737 and A321s. ORD is the hub most significantly impacted by this since they fly more RJs out of ORD than any other (in total and in %). On top of this upgauging (they want to increase the average # of seats per departure by 30%) they also stated they want to increase the number of flights out of their mid-continent hubs (DEN,IAH,ORD) by ~100 each by 2026.

That is going to be an almost 50% increase in capacity at ORD by 2026, from around 40M to 60M. Those satellite terminals are definitely going to be needed, especially if AA responds with growth of their own. I don't know how they can even manage that growth with the current terminal space and the seemingly delayed satellites.

Great points. It has been easy to notice the preponderance of the regional jets over the last 10-15 years compared to even other major hubs at O'Hare. Even at hubs in Denver, Detroit, Miami, Newark etc. the ratio of small regionals compared to larger feeders at other airports is noticeable. United's upgrades make O'Hare look more like other hubs without all the small regionals floating around.

Just makes more sense from an airport operations and airline efficiency perspective as well.

[kbud]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Once the Terminal 5 expansion completes and Delta moves its operations there, then the old Terminal 2 can be demolished and the Global Terminal and Satellite Concourses can begin construction. The Terminal 5 expansion was supposed to be complete this year but I'm guessing that based on the progress in the pictures posted above, it could complete late 2021 - early 2022. The satellite concourses were originally planned to begin construction in 2022 so even if worst case scenario and the Terminal 5 expansion doesn't complete until early 2022, then the satellite concourses could hopefully still be on schedule.

I am curious on how they will reconfigure flights once the Global Terminal/Sattelite concourses open. My guess is that T1 will be United domestic, T3 will be American domestic, and the Global Terminal/Sattelite concourses will be American/United international and Oneworld/Star Alliance partner flights. Delta, Skyteam Alliance partners, and nonaffiliated airlines will be in T5.

I’m curious to why they didn’t start any work associated with the satellite concourses until T2 is demolished. Maybe the one connected to C is in the way to T2, but I’d think they could start with the other one.

[Tcmetro]

I believe the plan is to have the new utility/ped/future train tunnel in place first for access to the satellites.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

That is going to be an almost 50% increase in capacity at ORD by 2026, from around 40M to 60M. Those satellite terminals are definitely going to be needed, especially if AA responds with growth of their own. I don't know how they can even manage that growth with the current terminal space and the seemingly delayed satellites.

But won't they just reduce frequency with larger planes to maintain similar load factors? It's only a major net capacity increase if demand supports it.

Maybe it's the transit person in me, but I never understood the airfan disdain for smaller regional jets - smaller vehicles running higher frequency service seems like an all-around plus for network connectivity and competitiveness for any customer concerned about minimizing total travel time and optimizing departure/arrival time, rather than savoring the pomp and circumstance of the air travel experience.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

But won't they just reduce frequency with larger planes to maintain similar load factors? It's only a major net capacity increase if demand supports it.

Maybe it's the transit person in me, but I never understood the airfan disdain for smaller regional jets - smaller vehicles running higher frequency service seems like an all-around plus for network connectivity and competitiveness for any customer concerned about minimizing total travel time and optimizing departure/arrival time, rather than savoring the pomp and circumstance of the air travel experience.

They're cramped, uncomfortable, lack space for overhead luggage (in most cases), and usually get the short end of the stick for terminal areas. That said some are much better than others like the E175s vs CRJ200s.

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by k1052

They're cramped, uncomfortable, lack space for overhead luggage (in most cases), and usually get the short end of the stick for terminal areas. That said some are much better than others like the E175s vs CRJ200s.

The worst thing about RJ’s is that they are more vulnerable to cancellations. When weather or capacity controls dictate a reduction in the number of aircraft allowed to land/takeoff at a given airport, they are chosen because they inconvenience the fewest amount of travelers. The huge proportion of RJ’s used by AA & UA hurt O’hare’s bottom line in regards to cancellations and traveler satisfaction.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by trvlr70

The worst thing about RJ’s is that they are more vulnerable to cancellations. When weather or capacity controls dictate a reduction in the number of aircraft allowed to land/takeoff at a given airport, they are chosen because they inconvenience the fewest amount of travelers. The huge proportion of RJ’s used by AA & UA hurt O’hare’s bottom line in regards to cancellations and traveler satisfaction.

Less of a problem at ORD now with the airfield fixes but yes.