[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[Good2go]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Moncton’s downtown centre is subject of three meetings

Two special public meetings are scheduled for Tuesday at 11:30 a.m. and on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

CBC Moncton 106.1 FM
In light of councillor Merrill Henderson's passing, Moncton City Hall is cancelling two special public meetings to discuss the city's Downtown Centre. They were scheduled for today at 11:30 a.m. and on Wednesday, March 19 at 4 p.m. Both will be rescheduled.

[Taeolas]

So how much would adding that extra 2500 permanant seats add to the cost? It's a no brainer to me, and for the 0% my opinion is worth, a 10,000 seat centre is the way to go. But it might be nice if there were some numbers to back it up compared to the 7500 seat, both in the added costs and the expected income from them.

[josh_cat_eyes]

In 1995 Spokane, Washington built 12,000 seat arena that holds 10,366 for hockey. They also made it expandable by 2,000 seats in the future. In 1990 the population of Spokane was around 180,000 with annual growl around 5%. Moncton has a smaller population but a much higher growth rate and is also a regional centre. The story is similar in Halifax.

[Walk then Run]

I'm not trying to pour water on the fire, but what has the average attendance of the Wildcats been during the last 10 years (steady at 4500/game)? Does it correlate with the city's growth?

I realize my inquiry is narrow minded, and that the events center would have other money making venues, but my thoughts came from comments made on population growth for the GM area.

[Walk then Run]

If not already pitched here, there is a company who helps build arenas with community sponsorships and the private sector. Check them out:

http://nustadia.com/

Not sure if this would help the financial aspect of the Events Center but the city of Guelph teamed up with them to build their new arena 15 years ago.

Maybe Dieppe, Riverview, Moncton and Mr. Robert Irving can all work with Nustadia to make this a reality.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Walk then Run

I'm not trying to pour water on the fire, but what has the average attendance of the Wildcats been during the last 10 years (steady at 4500/game)? Does it correlate with the city's growth?

You don't build arenas based on the average attendance during regular season games…….

For the Wildcats, this would be 4,500-5,000. For the Miracles, this would be 1,500-2,000.

You build arenas so that they can handle capacity crowds during playoff runs and also for special sporting events and concerts.

The last two regular season Wildcats games were sellouts at around 6,800. Attendance remains strong during the playoffs. If by some miracle, the Cats made it to the President's Cup, you could be guaranteed attendance of 10,000 plus……

The higher the seating capacity, the more attractive the venue becomes for special sporting events like the Memorial Cup, the Brier or the World Junior Hockey Championships. The point was made some time ago that the minimum seating capacity that the organizers of the Brier would accept for a potential host venue is 10,000. The new downtown events centre therefore would appear to be out of the running for this particular event.

Concert promoters also would like to have as many bums in the seat as possible as well. The larger the venue, the more likely it is that we would attract entertainers of the highest quality.

7,500 seats just doesn't cut it, sorry……..

[josh_cat_eyes]

Also a 10,000 seat arena in Moncton likely takes most of the events away from the Metro Centre until it is eventually replaced. Not as far for bands to travel. More central to the region. Better venue sight lines. Newer venue. etc.

[L'homard]

This city built a reputation for its superb handling of special BIG events.
Several of those events will no longer consider small arenas. A 7,500-seat facility would not even be considered any longer these days for some of the events we've hosted in the past.

[josh_cat_eyes]

FYI the only cities with arenas bigger then 10,000 seats is Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver (2), Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec City, Saskatoon and Halifax. You can look at this two ways. Build bigger, we get more events. Build smaller cause the precedent is there. There is also a precedent for building larger. Hopefully if they do build smaller (9,000) they have he capacity to expand to say 12,000 in the future.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

FYI the only cities with arenas bigger then 10,000 seats is Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver (2), Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec City, Saskatoon and Halifax. You can look at this two ways. Build bigger, we get more events. Build smaller cause the precedent is there. There is also a precedent for building larger. Hopefully if they do build smaller (9,000) they have he capacity to expand to say 12,000 in the future.

Ottawa too.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ottawa too.

right, yeah I missed that one. They have 2 that are over 10,000. Still though, there isn't many, and they are all MUCH bigger then Moncton. (with the exceptions of Saskatoon and Halifax, they aren't THAT much bigger)

[MonctonRad]

Just to flesh out the above discussion…….

Largest Arenas in Canada (Wikipedia)

#1 Bell Centre (Montreal) - 21,273
#2 Saddledome (Calgary) - 19,289
#3 Canadian Tire Centre (Ottawa) - 19,153
#4 Air Canada Centre (Toronto) - 18,819
#5 Rogers Arena (Vancouver) - 18,810
#6 Copps Coliseum (Hamilton) - 17,383
#7 Rexall Place (Edmonton) - 16,839
#8 Pacific Coliseum (Vancouver) - 16,281
#9 Credit Union Centre (Saskatoon) - 15,195
#10 Colisee Pepsi (Quebec City) - 15,127
#11 MTS Centre (Winnipeg) - 15,005
#12 Metro Centre (Halifax) - 10,595
#13 Civic Centre (Ottawa) - 9,862
#14 Budweiser Gardens (London) - 9,100
#15 Memorial Auditorium (Kitchener) - 7,268
#16 Save-on-Foods Centre (Victoria) - 7,006
#17 Moncton Coliseum (Moncton) - 6,554
#18 WFCU Centre (Windsor) - 6,500
#19 Mile One Centre (St. John's) - 6,247
#20 Harbour Station (Saint John) - 6,200

So, as it is, Moncton currently has the 17th largest arena in Canada. If a new 7,500 seat downtown events centre gets built, then we would move up on the list to number 15. If we went for a 10,000 seat arena, we would move up to #13.

I still think 7,500 seats is too small for major events. A bare minimum as far as I'm concerned is 9,000. I would still prefer 10,000. We would then be in the big leagues as far as a performance venue is concerned. I think you break a certain psychological threshold if a venue can seat 10,000 or more.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Just to flesh out the above discussion…….

Largest Arenas in Canada (Wikipedia)

#1 Bell Centre (Montreal) - 21,273
#2 Saddledome (Calgary) - 19,289
#3 Canadian Tire Centre (Ottawa) - 19,153
#4 Air Canada Centre (Toronto) - 18,819
#5 Rogers Arena (Vancouver) - 18,810
#6 Copps Coliseum (Hamilton) - 17,383
#7 Rexall Place (Edmonton) - 16,839
#8 Pacific Coliseum (Vancouver) - 16,281
#9 Credit Union Centre (Saskatoon) - 15,195
#10 Colisee Pepsi (Quebec City) - 15,127
#11 MTS Centre (Winnipeg) - 15,005
#12 Metro Centre (Halifax) - 10,595
#13 Civic Centre (Ottawa) - 9,862
#14 Budweiser Gardens (London) - 9,100
#15 Memorial Auditorium (Kitchener) - 7,268
#16 Save-on-Foods Centre (Victoria) - 7,006
#17 Moncton Coliseum (Moncton) - 6,554
#18 WFCU Centre (Windsor) - 6,500
#19 Mile One Centre (St. John's) - 6,247
#20 Harbour Station (Saint John) - 6,200

So, as it is, Moncton currently has the 17th largest arena in Canada. If a new 7,500 seat downtown events centre gets built, then we would move up on the list to number 15. If we went for a 10,000 seat arena, we would move up to #13.

I still think 7,500 seats is too small for major events. A bare minimum as far as I'm concerned is 9,000. I would still prefer 10,000. We would then be in the big leagues as far as a performance venue is concerned. I think you break a certain psychological threshold if a venue can seat 10,000 or more.

I completely agree with you. Also you can almost not even count #8 & #13 as there is newer venues in each of those cities. (Rogers Arena & Canadian Tire Place)
Lets also not forget that the MTS Centre has only 15,005 seats, yet hosts and NHL team. If they build it 10,000 with the possibility for expansion, maybe in 20 years Moncton can have an NHL team. (I can dream right?)

[Mattyyy]

Well, I'm sure this will be a confidence booster for all of us who would like to see more than 7,500 seats in the Events Center. Here is a section of the article from the T & T this morning.

Moncton mayor pushes for more seats in events centre
Cole Hobson

COLE HOBSON Times & Transcript
March 19, 2014

As Moncton city council prepares to discuss the details of a request for proposals for a possible multi-purpose downtown events centre, Mayor George LeBlanc said the city needs to “build and plan for the future, not the past.”

Council is set to discuss the parameters of the long-awaited downtown centre starting on Monday and a preliminary copy of the potential RFP details that the centre must have a minimum of 7,500 permanent seats, which is significantly lower than figures that have been discussed in the past and not much larger than the current maximum fixed-seat capacity of the Moncton Coliseum, which sits around 6,500.

But LeBlanc noted that the RFP is not yet a completed document and he’s going to be pushing to ensure the seating capacity of a possible new centre is higher and closer to figures that have been previously discussed.

“I personally believe that we need something in the range of 9,000 seats, plus suites and club seats, luxury boxes and things like that, which would bring the total capacity up to about 10,000 seats,” he said. “To my mind that’s where I think we should be going. From what I hear from people in the community, they certainly feel that way.”

At least 7,500 seats is not yet a done deal.

[Monctoncore]

You beat me to it Mattyyy, as it says 7,500 seats is the minimum requirement and after seeing that article it does boost my confidence in the project a bit more!

[josh_cat_eyes]

It's nice to see George knows what he's doing. He wants the entire capacity to be 10,000. 9,000 regular seats. This makes sense to me.

[BlackYear]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You don't build arenas based on the average attendance during regular season games…….

For the Wildcats, this would be 4,500-5,000. For the Miracles, this would be 1,500-2,000.

You build arenas so that they can handle capacity crowds during playoff runs and also for special sporting events and concerts.

The last two regular season Wildcats games were sellouts at around 6,800. Attendance remains strong during the playoffs. If by some miracle, the Cats made it to the President's Cup, you could be guaranteed attendance of 10,000 plus……

The higher the seating capacity, the more attractive the venue becomes for special sporting events like the Memorial Cup, the Brier or the World Junior Hockey Championships. The point was made some time ago that the minimum seating capacity that the organizers of the Brier would accept for a potential host venue is 10,000. The new downtown events centre therefore would appear to be out of the running for this particular event.

Concert promoters also would like to have as many bums in the seat as possible as well. The larger the venue, the more likely it is that we would attract entertainers of the highest quality.

7,500 seats just doesn't cut it, sorry……..

And you have guys like me who refuses to pay attendance for any sport or event at the Coliseum simply because of the seating arrangement. The seats are absolute poor quality and ridiculously so small that they are only made to fit a 5'4 150lbs human with short legs and 16" or under shoulder width.

I went to 1 Wild Cats game a couple of years ago and never again. I want to go, hell, I would even buy season tickets to show my support. But it will never happen, not at the Coliseum.

Built it right and don't cut corners. Make the attendees feel like they want to come back, and the 10k seats will fill in more than what people think.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Yeah between the Collisiuem and Metro Centre, they probably have the worst seats and worst sight lines in any arena in Canada. I'm really excited for this new arena. I envision it being as busy as London or Saskatoon. Maybe even more busy. When you think about it, what promoter is going to have a show at the metro centre when Moncton has a brand new arena the same size. I know Halifax really wants a new stadium, but they need to get their ducks in a row.

[JasonL-Moncton]

Our new arena has to have a minimum of 10,000 seats...I don't care if it's 10,000 even just that number has to be broken.

Let's look at something...using hockey numbers...really rough thinking and could be drilled down further by some of the mathletes in here.

Coliseum built in 1972 holds 6554

Metro Centre built in 1978 holds 10595

...both are now too small for their population requirements and 40-ish years old.

Moncton surrounding population about 135,000

Halifax surrounding population about 415,000

in 1971 the population of Halifax was 261,461, that is not that much higher than ours where we are now relatively speaking, Moncton during the same time period was in the 50,000 range...Moncton almost tripling it's population (will be by the time the arena is built). Does it not stand to reason that a 10,000 seat arena in Moncton is sustainable in Moncton for at lease two plus decades when we've had an almost 10% population growth between 2006-2011?

When event planners look for venues for major events they "start" at 10K...we build 100 million dollar 9,000 seat arena we've already kicked it in the nuts and made it non-sustainable.

In my opinion...

[MonctonRad]

Editorial from today's T&T regarding the events centre:

Build for the future
Thursday, March 20, 2014
Times & Transcript
http://22864.vws.magma.ca/index.php?&article_id=12562

Moncton City Council sits again this coming Monday morning in part to deliberate on the release of a Request for Proposals (RFP) on a downtown events centre. That RFP calls for a venue of 7,500 seats, reportedly with some modifications that will allow that number to expand, perhaps by as much as 1,500 seats, for non-hockey events. We would submit that since the Moncton Coliseum’s capacity is 6,554 seats, with the ability to expand to about 7,000 seats for certain non-hockey events, that the numbers are close enough to justify abandoning the events centre project. That is not to suggest we have changed our position on a downtown events centre. We still believe it is reasonable to surmise that a larger, newer, nicer venue located in the heart of the city is a far better economic generator than an older, cramped, absurdly out moded venue located on its fringes.

A report from Downtown Moncton Centreville Inc. was clear enough. A new centre, based on the original concept of seating in the 10,000 to 12,000 range with an ability to be expanded in the future, would cost $100 million or more, but would attract a far greater variety of events and thus generate the kind of entrepreneurial interest that would lead to at least another $100 million in related development. In time, $200-plus million worth of new property, located on prime real estate and thus commanding the highest returns via municipal property tax, would generate the municipal income to cover the City’s share of the costs for the events centre and then start being used for other municipal projects.

We don’t believe the Coliseum can do any of that, but we don’t believe a slightly improved imitation of same will do that either. The Coliseum has already been rejected by some concert acts as too small. A nice little ‘Coliseum 2.0’ won’t fare any better and will be outmoded in a few years in any event. If this council can’t embrace the future, it might as well cling to the past.

We Say:

City council should go big or stay home on downtown events centre.

Personal note - I couldn't agree more. We aren't just building an events centre for today, we're also building an events centre for 40-50 years down the road. What will Moncton look like in 2070? I'm willing to bet you the city will have at least 220-250,000 people. This hypothetical city of the future will be cursing us if we build an events centre with a paltry 7,500 seats. We need to do this right or not at all……..