Barrhaven LRT | Proposed - Page 4

J.OT13 · #61 Posted **Jun 19, 2018, 1:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Yes and no. Helping Gatineau residents commute to Ottawa isn’t but helping Ottawa residents commute to Gatineau is. In the end it is best if we cooperate with Gatineau and have both agencies fill vehicles that would otherwise be deadheading with the other’s residents. That’s why I like the idea of having STO run trains across the Alexandra Bridge to Rideau and having OC Transpo run across the Pow Bridge to Chadier. Both primarily target their own residents but are also useful to the other’s.

Agreed. Crossing Trillium to the Zibi site is important, not only for Ottawa commuters to Terraces de la Chaudière, but also to facilitate Gatineau residents' movement to a future arena at LeBreton Flats. That extension, if the Feds take on PoW (interprovincial crossings should always be Federal jurisdiction IMO) would be relatively cheap compared to Confederation Line extension to Kanata and Barrhaven. Gatineau hopefully crosses the Royal Alexandra (crossing once again should be paid by the Feds) and tunnel under Sussex or Mackenzie to connect with Confederation's Rideau Station.

OCCheetos · #62 Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 5:42 PM**

Jim Watson has said that he wants to include the Barrhaven extension as part of Stage 3 (along with the Kanata/Stittsville extension).

Reecemartin · #63 Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 6:39 PM**

[Deleted]

corynv · #64 Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

So then what all is included in Stage 3 atm?

Currently nothing. It's all under initial planning, and there's no 100% guarantee when or where stage 3 will happen. There is the Kanata EA that has been completeled, and there's also the Barrhaven EA that recently got approved to do. and that's about what it is right now (some people are hoping stage 3 will include a crossing into gatineau, but with gatineau now wanting to do its own LRT system, that might not be needed/wanted by the time stage 3 starts)

JHikka · #65 Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corynv

Currently nothing. It's all under initial planning, and there's no 100% guarantee when or where stage 3 will happen. There is the Kanata EA that has been completeled, and there's also the Barrhaven EA that recently got approved to do. and that's about what it is right now (some people are hoping stage 3 will include a crossing into gatineau, but with gatineau now wanting to do its own LRT system, that might not be needed/wanted by the time stage 3 starts)

Or improved service in the Central part of the city.

roger1818 · #66 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 1:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corynv

Currently nothing. It's all under initial planning, and there's no 100% guarantee when or where stage 3 will happen. There is the Kanata EA that has been completeled, and there's also the Barrhaven EA that recently got approved to do. and that's about what it is right now (some people are hoping stage 3 will include a crossing into gatineau, but with gatineau now wanting to do its own LRT system, that might not be needed/wanted by the time stage 3 starts)

Exactly. Nothing is officially in or out for Stage 3. We don't even know if it will happen.

lrt's friend · #67 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 2:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Or improved service in the Central part of the city.

Why would we consider that? Just transfer to the Confederation Line. Problem solved.

corynv · #68 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 2:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why would we consider that? Just transfer to the Confederation Line. Problem solved.

That doesn't mean someone can't wish for there to be better/more service in the central part of the city (especially if the confederation line doesn't really serve where they need to go/live)

I know i've seen quite a few people on here hoping for a bank street subway eventually, and that can help service to that area too. (especially if we reopen union, and have the gatineau LRT there, the bank street line, and maybe even adding a 4th station in the tunnel (if that's possible, i personally don't know) or connection to rideau station there.

lrt's friend · #69 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corynv

That doesn't mean someone can't wish for there to be better/more service in the central part of the city (especially if the confederation line doesn't really serve where they need to go/live)

I know i've seen quite a few people on here hoping for a bank street subway eventually, and that can help service to that area too. (especially if we reopen union, and have the gatineau LRT there, the bank street line, and maybe even adding a 4th station in the tunnel (if that's possible, i personally don't know) or connection to rideau station there.

Oh I agree. My comment was a bit of my sarcasm.

roger1818 · #70 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corynv

That doesn't mean someone can't wish for there to be better/more service in the central part of the city (especially if the confederation line doesn't really serve where they need to go/live)

I know i've seen quite a few people on here hoping for a bank street subway eventually, and that can help service to that area too. (especially if we reopen union, and have the gatineau LRT there, the bank street line, and maybe even adding a 4th station in the tunnel (if that's possible, i personally don't know) or connection to rideau station there.

Not sure if you caught it, but lrt's friend was being factious.

While I don't disagree with you, I highly doubt if we will see that for stage 3. Part of the problem is cost. Tunnelling the 2.7km from Lansdowne Park to Parliament Station would likely cost as much if not more than the 6.4km from Moodie Drive to Terry Fox. The current 2.5km tunnel and stations (ignoring track work) cost $681 million (in 2013 dollars), and the Kanata LRT EA says the Moodie Drive to Terry Fox station will cost $710 million all in (in 2017 dollars). Assuming both will be used equally (in the long run I suspect they would be), which is better value?

http://www.ssd-ottawa.ca/latest-news...lcostestimates

lrt's friend · #71 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Not sure if you caught it, but lrt's friend was being factious.

While I don't disagree with you, I highly doubt if we will see that for stage 3. Part of the problem is cost. Tunnelling the 2.7km from Lansdowne Park to Parliament Station would likely cost as much if not more than the 6.4km from Moodie Drive to Terry Fox. The current 2.5km tunnel and stations (ignoring track work) cost $681 million (in 2013 dollars), and the Kanata LRT EA says the Moodie Drive to Terry Fox station will cost $710 million all in (in 2017 dollars). Assuming both will be used equally (in the long run I suspect they would be), which is better value?

http://www.ssd-ottawa.ca/latest-news...lcostestimates

I just made a similar and more general comment on another skyscraper board regarding the priority of suburban and urban transit improvements. Cost has to be a consideration and I also pointed out that our cities have fallen behind on building transit in recent decades. At this time, considering cost and benefit, it makes the most sense to build to the suburbs, especially given that road expansion even in the suburbs is finite. The challenge in building urban transit is the enormous cost, although I support it in principle. Given that congestion is only going to get worse, at some point we are going to have to bite the bullet. But when? Not likely very soon.

roger1818 · #72 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I just made a similar and more general comment on another skyscraper board regarding the priority of suburban and urban transit improvements. Cost has to be a consideration and I also pointed out that our cities have fallen behind on building transit in recent decades. At this time, considering cost and benefit, it makes the most sense to build to the suburbs, especially given that road expansion even in the suburbs is finite. The challenge in building urban transit is the enormous cost, although I support it in principle. Given that congestion is only going to get worse, at some point we are going to have to bite the bullet. But when? Not likely very soon.

If you look at the Kanata EA, the costs per km beyond Terry Fox jump significantly (for significantly less benefit). At that point, they become comparable to a downtown tunnel. As a result, once we get to Barrhaven and Terry Fox, a second route downtown should be our priority.

lrt's friend · #73 Posted **Jun 28, 2018, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

If you look at the Kanata EA, the costs per km beyond Terry Fox jump significantly (for significantly less benefit). At that point, they become comparable to a downtown tunnel. As a result, once we get to Barrhaven and Terry Fox, a second route downtown should be our priority.

We need to make any plan for a second route downtown as flexible as possible for future extension. It also considers that no one route can justify Confederation Line service.

For example, a Bank subway needs to extend to Billings Bridge at a minimum in Phase 1, which can be extended to the airport (replacing the SE Transitway) and might be extendable to Gatineau and/or Rideau/Montreal and even keep possibilities open for a Carling or Baseline route.

We need to maximize direct service from downtown and create more cross connections inside the Greenbelt. With a double track line, we can easily interline as many as 5 routes and still offer 10 minute service on each branch. For example, Bank-Carling, Bank-Baseline, Bank-Airport, Bank-Riverside South, and from the north, Bank-Aylmer, Bank-Montreal Road, Bank-Plateau, Bank-Rapibus replacement. At some point, I would even consider replacing the remainder of the SE Transitway creating a Baseline-Hurdman route and possibly South Keys-Hurdman.

I know this is very wishful thinking but consider what this would accomplish for Ottawa in the long-term as far as ease of moving around the city.

1overcosc · #74 Posted **Jun 29, 2018, 5:32 PM**

As expected, Lisa MacLeod was named to Cabinet today, for the newly formed Ministry of Children, Community, and Social Services, a merger of the Ministry of Children & Youth (that oversees CAS, the crown ward program, adoption, children & adolescent mental health programs, and social service programs aimed at children) and the Ministry of Community and Social Services (that oversees social assistance programs and disability services). This isn't the sort of position where she's in a spot to promote LRT, so the effect of her going to cabinet might not be as big a booster for this project as we thought.

Edit: Interestingly, much of the Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration (now abolished) is being moved into Children, Community, and Social Services as well. Lisa MacLeod's new ministry is now the province's third largest after Education and Health, with a budget of $16 billion a year, after all these mergers.

zzptichka · #75 Posted **Jun 30, 2018, 2:16 AM**

Yup. In other news, our new Transportation Minster is John Yakabuski from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.
Subway to Renfrew anyone?

Marcus CLS · #76 Posted **Jun 30, 2018, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yup. In other news, our new Transportation Minster is John Yakabuski from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.
Subway to Renfrew anyone?

Hopefully he can influence the continued 4 laneing of HWY. 17 up the valley. The MTO long term HWY plan shows nothing for HWY. 17 for eastern Ontario outside Ottawa for the next 5 years. With the exception of Ontario the Trans-Canada HWY is a 4 lane divided highway across the rest of the country.

McC · #77 Posted **Jul 1, 2018, 1:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus CLS

. With the exception of Ontario the Trans-Canada HWY is a 4 lane divided highway across the rest of the country.

No it isn’t.

roger1818 · #78 Posted **Jul 1, 2018, 2:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McC

No it isn’t.

We are way off topic, but that is correct. Throughout much of BC the Trans-Canada Highway is 2 or 3 lanes. In fact, in Nanaimo, it turns into a city street (Stewart Ave).

IMHO, far more important than widening Hwy 17 would be to build a second highway between Thunder Bay (or maybe a bit further west) and Nipigon. Apparently a stretch of that is the only road in Canada that connects the eastern and western provinces. According to Wikipedia, in 2016 the Nipigon River Bridge suffered a mechanical failure, forcing all traffic to detour south of Lake Superior. That is a big detour!

J.OT13 · #79 Posted **Jul 1, 2018, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Subway to Renfrew anyone?

That's more likely to happen than a subway under Bank-Rideau-Montreal.

Truenorth00 · #80 Posted **Jul 1, 2018, 9:43 PM**

Bank St. subway is a non-starter. There's no business case for it. For comparison, the same money can be used to twin track the entire Trillium Line and extend it and build a proper airport spur. So let's drop that fantasy.

The Barrhaven extension makes sense. There's just no justification to extend into Kanata and not reach at least Fallowfield in Stage 3. Especially given how far they are going into Orleans in Stage 2.