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  #81  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 2:28 PM
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Coup de théâtre (spectacular turn of events) on this file yesterday.

The Ville de Gatineau has rejected all of the proposals filed by contractors to build the new arena, and smelling something fishy, has turned the file over to the UPAC, which is a pseudo-police force that investigates corruption and collusion and is the feeder for the highly publicized Commission Charbonneau.

The subsidy from Quebec for the arena is not in danger, though, and the mayor says if they can iron a few things out quickly there is still a good chance they can meet the deadline.

So stay tuned...
Good for them, this smells like a blatant case of BID RIGGING!!!!

Also, if they had a certain budget for the project, then why did they not make that a financial mandatory criterion - ie. Financial proposal MUST NOT be higher than $XX. So maybe this was a RFP fail too on the part of the city, which led to bid rigging...
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  #82  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 2:35 PM
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Good for them, this smells like a blatant case of BID RIGGING!!!!

Also, if they had a certain budget for the project, then why did they not make that a financial mandatory criterion - ie. Financial proposal MUST NOT be higher than $XX. So maybe this was a RFP fail too on the part of the city, which led to bid rigging...
Setting a price doesn't prevent bid-rigging. In most cases, it just tends to draw all bids into a narrow band just under that price.
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  #83  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 3:00 PM
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Setting a price doesn't prevent bid-rigging. In most cases, it just tends to draw all bids into a narrow band just under that price.
Setting a ceiling, not setting a price. They are free to bid at the max, or below. Might be good to go a bit lower than the max for example. Anyway, RFPs are tough for big projects, especially in construction.
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  #84  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 3:33 PM
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This morning, one of the companies that bid on the project (and the lowest bidder I think, so the likely winner of the process), has fired back at the city with a "mise en demeure" - sort of like a legal warning (do this or else we will undertake legal procedures against you).
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  #85  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 3:35 PM
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This morning, one of the companies that bid on the project (and the lowest bidder I think, so the likely winner of the process), has fired back at the city with a "mise en demeure" - sort of like a legal warning (do this or else we will undertake legal procedures against you).
Sounds like this is not going anywhere fast.
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  #86  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 3:42 PM
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Sounds like this is not going anywhere fast.
My guess is that Pomerleau (the company in question) are not too pleased about having their name associated with corruption/collusion, and as frustrated or more about putting together a bid for nothing (maybe) and having to restart the whole thing again.
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  #87  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 4:16 PM
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My guess is that Pomerleau (the company in question) are not too pleased about having their name associated with corruption/collusion, and as frustrated or more about putting together a bid for nothing (maybe) and having to restart the whole thing again.
I think that is bang on. That and they want the process to continue so they get the contract.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 4:17 PM
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Does anyone know how much the CT Centre cost?

The Gatineau one may end up costing between $50M and $65M.

Just trying to put things in perspective.
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  #89  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 4:31 PM
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According to Wikipedia, the Corel Centre cost 170 million in 1996, or 235 million in 2014 dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_Centre
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  #90  
Old Posted May 14, 2014, 5:18 PM
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Thanks J.OT13

So four times the price for four times the capacity. Makes sense.

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According to Wikipedia, the Corel Centre cost 170 million in 1996, or 235 million in 2014 dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_Centre
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 1:15 AM
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Proposal is officially dead... again. Hey maybe we will still talk about a proposed new arena replacing the BOB in Gatineau in 2050 or beyond. The BS is so incredible in this project. If I was the owner, I would threaten to move the Olympiques out of Gatineau so maybe it will force city councillors to get their heads out of you know what on this topic. Only chance to see a new arena and the Olympiques staying in Gatineau would be a P-3 similar to the arena at Nicolas-Gatineau High School in the east end

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...spot-1.3097413
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Last edited by Cre47; Jun 3, 2015 at 1:29 AM.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 1:33 PM
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This Citizen article seems to indicate that they're still committed to demo the Bob in 3 years. I'm not sure that's going to result in a more economical solution to build a new rink.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 5:15 PM
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The BAD thing is that the city is losing the subsidy of over $20M.

The GOOD thing is that as a taxpayer of Gatineau, I am not funding the Olympiques de Gatineau organization.

Let them leave the city.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 6:46 PM
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The BAD thing is that the city is losing the subsidy of over $20M.

The GOOD thing is that as a taxpayer of Gatineau, I am not funding the Olympiques de Gatineau organization.

Let them leave the city.
?

Why would you wish that they leave the city? They have been a pretty important local institution for 50 years.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 7:11 PM
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?

Why would you wish that they leave the city? They have been a pretty important local institution for 50 years.
I say leave the city only if you cannot be self sustaining.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 8:01 PM
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I say leave the city only if you cannot be self sustaining.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that there is a junior hockey team in Canada that plays in a facility that wasn't built with public money. Gatineau is unlikely to be the first.

The question for me is whether a spectator arena provides a public benefit for the citizens of Gatineau. To me, the answer is pretty clearly yes. If Gatineau was to demolish its existing arena as suggested, it would be in pretty scant company in terms of cities of that size without a public facility to allow it to host those the type of events envisioned for the Centre Multifonctionnel. Would that have an impact in terms of whether Gatineau is a desirable place to live, and its attractiveness to capital? I would say so, and that has a broader impact.

I suspect that the prospect of no arena means that some sort of PPP will end up being developed, and the city will put in funding in the way of guaranteed rental, land etc., but will have little say in the way the building is operated. Often that ends up being a worse deal for the taxpayers.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 12:04 AM
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Gatineau needs to build an arena, not for the Olympiques de Hull, but for the City. So much time has been wasted dithering on this file, we could have built the dam thing by now for much cheaper than it will ever be. This the bridge issue, or LRT again, if only on smaller scale.

I'm hopping Brigil (most likely) and the City of Gatineau can come up with a proper solution that can be planned and executed before the Bob gets torn down. Worse case scenario, they could do like the 67s in 67' and play across the river for half a season while a new building is u/c.

As for the Olympics in general, they are an important part of the community, not to mention a great source of NHL talent!
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 2:09 AM
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If they end up building a lebretton arena they can play there - it is less than 100m from Gatineau
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 4:59 AM
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If the Bob is demo'd and there is no arena built the city will not be keeping the Olympiques. No questions asked.

In terms of building a new events centre, Gatineau is now in the same position as Moncton in determining how much of an economic impact a new centre has. The Bob, because it's an old run-down barn, is only good for hockey. Most other facilities in the Q can be used for concerts, trade shows, events...all of which generate income and economic spinoff for local businesses and the city as a whole. Building a new hockey arena also opens up the possibility of hosting one-off events (Russian Super Series, Prospects Game) or tournaments (Memorial Cup, World Juniors, etc.). Not to mention non-hockey events, including curling, figure skating, or perhaps basketball or other indoor sports if one so chooses. If City Council thinks none of these provide for a solid economic investment then i'm not sure what else could be said to sway them.

Hull/Gatineau has been a tremendous franchise for a number of years and it would be a shame to lose them. If there are plans in place to build a new arena i'm sure they could play at Lansdowne during the construction phase, but if there are no concrete plans one would assume the team would be toast.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2015, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
If the Bob is demo'd and there is no arena built the city will not be keeping the Olympiques. No questions asked.

In terms of building a new events centre, Gatineau is now in the same position as Moncton in determining how much of an economic impact a new centre has. The Bob, because it's an old run-down barn, is only good for hockey. Most other facilities in the Q can be used for concerts, trade shows, events...all of which generate income and economic spinoff for local businesses and the city as a whole. Building a new hockey arena also opens up the possibility of hosting one-off events (Russian Super Series, Prospects Game) or tournaments (Memorial Cup, World Juniors, etc.). Not to mention non-hockey events, including curling, figure skating, or perhaps basketball or other indoor sports if one so chooses. If City Council thinks none of these provide for a solid economic investment then i'm not sure what else could be said to sway them.

Hull/Gatineau has been a tremendous franchise for a number of years and it would be a shame to lose them. If there are plans in place to build a new arena i'm sure they could play at Lansdowne during the construction phase, but if there are no concrete plans one would assume the team would be toast.
That is all very true. Not to mention the fact that Gatineau will be in the same position as any other suburb of Ottawa, incapable of hosting any major events of its own. I'm all for better integration of the metro area, but that would not be a great result for Gatineau.
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