Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

A and B are still my favourites out of the five. I showed the designs to my mother and she likes A the best. She also thinks a Walmart is coming to Lansdowne for some reason.

I really like the "bringing in the canal" part of A, but B has really nice overall features and less open fields which I despise. I'd rather see gardens or proper woodland in the park instead of the oh-so-typical grass field and a few trees that happens in Ottawa far too often.

[AuxTown]

Interesting article from the Citizen today. I think he put it best when he said: "I don't think the Glebe should dictate the terms of the development," Murray says. Lansdowne Park "should be a destination site as opposed to a park that one encounters on a pleasant walk. But I think it has to be done sensitively, as a good neighbour."

from www.ottawacitizen.com

Lansdowne plan a hard sell in '70s
Architect recalls 'rambunctious' dinner with then-NCC chairman

By Don Butler, The Ottawa Citizen May 24, 2010


Tim Murray and his brother, Patrick, produced a master plan for Lansdowne Park in 1972. They won a design award for their efforts, but the plan was never implemented. Murray hopes something happens with the site in his lifetime.Photograph by: Bruno Schlumberger, The Ottawa CitizenOTTAWA — One boozy evening in the early 1970s, Tim and Patrick Murray got into it with Douglas Fullerton, the late, legendary chairman of the National Capital Commission.

The City of Ottawa had commissioned the brothers' firm, Murray & Murray Architects, to develop a master plan for Lansdowne Park. A key element of their 1972 plan -- highly praised, but never implemented -- was a proposal to extend the Rideau Canal into the park.

Over dinner at the now-defunct Cercle Universitaire d'Ottawa, the Murrays tried to convince Fullerton to embrace their vision.

"We had a pretty rambunctious dinner," recalls Tim Murray. "There was a fair amount of drinking and a lot of eating."

But Fullerton couldn't swallow the Murrays' arguments about redirecting the canal. "He fought that tooth and nail. He really dug his heels in."

Murray, whose brother Patrick died in January, still believes it makes great sense to direct water from the canal into the park. "You have this opportunity 24 feet from the edge of the park. Why would we not capitalize on it?"

With council set to vote next month on the latest plan for Lansdowne, Murray fears history is repeating itself. "We're getting the bureaucratic runaround about how you can't touch a heritage element."

At least one of the five finalists in Lansdowne's urban park competition agrees with Murray. Its design shows a breach in the canal wall to create a lagoon in the park.

The Rideau Canal's designation by UNESCO as a world heritage site makes it hard, if not impossible, to alter it. And Parks Canada has been adamant: thou shall not alter the canal in any way.

But Murray calls that "a bureaucratic cop-out. I would wager that no one has actually tested the feasibility of that with the people who are in charge of the (heritage) designation."

When Lansdowne Park was developed in the 19th century, a large lagoon from the canal extended into its grounds. It was gradually filled in to expand the park, but the canal's current alignment wasn't set until well into the 20th century.

The Lansdowne Partnership Plan, the current proposal to revitalize the park, does envisage links with the canal. Its guiding principles say the "park experience" should extend to the canal edge, with docking facilities and boat access to Lansdowne. It also calls for "water features that will reflect the historic extension of the canal into the site."

That's a step in the right direction, Murray says. It just doesn't go far enough. Just imagine, he says, watching boats from distant ports sail down the canal and into Lansdowne Park. "That has the element of surprise and entertainment. I'm at a loss to know why, with help from the bureaucrats, people have said that's a non-starter."

Nearly four decades ago, the Murray & Murray plan for Lansdowne won a national design award. But with a price tag of $80 million, it was too rich for the city council of the day.

"I think it was Charlotte Whitton who said, 'The Murrays think we own the Bank of Canada'," Murray recalls. "That was in the paper."

The fact that Lansdowne has languished ever since is "a crying shame," he says. "It's an eyesore. It's just a sea of asphalt.

"I think it's been a sad waste of opportunity. Had they at least worked to an overall master plan, they would have realized some of it by now."

He's encouraged by the involvement of Minto Group Inc. CEO Roger Greenberg in the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, the company that has partnered with the city in the current development plan.

Minto, he says, has "a very sound track record. They're just decent people with transacting business. There'll be a lot of that percolating into the development."

He's also optimistic that Barry Hobin and Ritchard Brisbin, the two Ottawa architects OSEG has hired to design the commercial portion of the park, are up to the task.

"I have great faith in Brisbin and Hobin. I think they have the elements to be successful there. They could pull it off."

The tenant mix will be important, he says. "What would be fatal would be to have a lot of trinket shops and collectibles."

Murray questions whether the sections of the park designed by the OSEG architects will fit coherently with those designed by the five firms in the urban park competition, whose proposals were made public Thursday.

The process that has been adopted, he says, "seems to fragment the approach."

Once a design has been chosen for the urban park, the winning firm will work closely with OSEG's architects to bring cohesion to the overall design, proponents say.

That gives Murray some comfort, but, he adds, "I don't think it's quite as strong as one party doing a master plan."

Though residents of the Glebe have led the opposition to the current plan, "I don't think the Glebe should dictate the terms of the development," Murray says.

Lansdowne Park "should be a destination site as opposed to a park that one encounters on a pleasant walk. But I think it has to be done sensitively, as a good neighbour."

He hopes this latest effort can overcome the budgetary concerns that sank his firm's plan nearly four decades ago.

"We've got to rise above that and sometimes just take a leap of faith," says Murray, who celebrated his 80th birthday earlier this month.

Will it happen within his lifetime?

"I would certainly hope so," he says fervently. "It would be nice."

- - -

The Lansdowne Project

Read articles, blogs and opinion pieces, and see graphics and photo galleries of Lansdowne Park on The Lansdowne Project, our minisite at ottawacitizen.com/Lansdowne

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[umbria27]

I voted B because it:
-kept some form of neighbourhood park
-had a pedestrian bridge
-made judicious use of the water in the park (rather than flooding half of it and turning it into Dow's Lake II)
-had a more formal layout than the others, with tree lined straight lanes. This is differentiates it from Ottawa's other parks, and seems well suited to the idea of an "urban" park.

[YOWetal]

I voted for E with A a close second. The canaal is the key to this area and I think skaiting or boating directly into the park would be great. I would have voted for C based on the great commerical link with the water but I fear this part would be cut out anyway.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by reidjr

jemartin
Ottawa has over 800 parks in this city is not in any way lacking in parks.What ottawa is lacking is arenas and sports fields.I am not aginst parks but at the same time you can't turn everything into parks which some seem to want.

I'm not sure whether I'm disagreeing or agreeing, but I think that the local belief that Ottawa has a lot of parks uses a very narrow definition of "park". Ottawa has a lot of fields (greenbelt, experimental farm), and a lot of lawns (around the parkways, canals, rivers, federal buildings, etc.) and a lot of parkettes, but Ottawa has few parks in the sense that term is used in most of the world. Most cities have large parks that support a range of activities (Central Park, Grant Park, Golden Gate Park, Hyde Park, Tiergarten, Villa Borgese, Stanley Park, High Park, Mount Royal Park). Ottawa has nothing equivalent - the closest would probably be Jacques Cartier Park in Gatineau. Maybe Lansdowne is not the place for a real park, but it would be nice if at least one of the many redevelopment projects floating around central Ottawa would include a sizeable park.

[rodionx]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I'm not sure whether I'm disagreeing or agreeing, but I think that the local belief that Ottawa has a lot of parks uses a very narrow definition of "park". Ottawa has a lot of fields (greenbelt, experimental farm), and a lot of lawns (around the parkways, canals, rivers, federal buildings, etc.) and a lot of parkettes, but Ottawa has few parks in the sense that term is used in most of the world. Most cities have large parks that support a range of activities (Central Park, Grant Park, Golden Gate Park, Hyde Park, Tiergarten, Villa Borgese, Stanley Park, High Park, Mount Royal Park). Ottawa has nothing equivalent - the closest would probably be Jacques Cartier Park in Gatineau. Maybe Lansdowne is not the place for a real park, but it would be nice if at least one of the many redevelopment projects floating around central Ottawa would include a sizeable park.

With Ottawa parks, I think sizeable is part of the problem. Put 20 people in a really big "park" and it's still a field. Put 20 people in a small park and you get interaction. The two really successful urban parks I can think of in Ottawa are Dundonald Park at Bay and Somerset and Strathcona Park along Range Road in Sandy Hill. The former is tiny and the latter is long and skinny. Each has natural nooks, but everyone can see everyone else most of the time. Both attract regulars, like parents and dog walkers, (ok, and park bench drinkers too), but community groups like to use them as gathering places as well. I saw an honest to goodness drum circle in Dundonald Park over the weekend. Skinny hipsters and Africans in national dress all grooving on a park bench. It's hard to plan for that kind of synergy.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by rodionx

With Ottawa parks, I think sizeable is part of the problem. Put 20 people in a really big "park" and it's still a field. Put 20 people in a small park and you get interaction. The two really successful urban parks I can think of in Ottawa are Dundonald Park at Bay and Somerset and Strathcona Park along Range Road in Sandy Hill.

Minto Park off Elgin is a pretty happenin' spot.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

The only potential downside to wetlands would be mosquitoes. Have they come up with anything to prevent them from laying eggs?

Get the NCC to put up signs telling them not to?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by reidjr

jemartin
Ottawa has over 800 parks in this city is not in any way lacking in parks.What ottawa is lacking is arenas and sports fields.I am not aginst parks but at the same time you can't turn everything into parks which some seem to want.

What Ottawa is lacking in is Ottawa.

I have yet to meet a city that was made more interesting through more trees and grass.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by m0nkyman

I've avoided getting into an argument with you about this because it is apparent that you have no wish to listen to the other side of a debate. Please don't quote me again unless you actually have a point to make either in disagreeing with a point or agreeing. Landscaping is more expensive than you think unless your goal is to replace the stadium with a barren and windswept field in the winter and an empty field of burnt and unwatered grass in the summer. That may be your goal. It is not mine.

None of the plans offered here are remotely realistic.

Cost is the bottom line and what is being proposed under the Lansdowne Park Conservancy model is zero taxpayer costs.

For a cash strapped city that is an attractive option.

And if you think design doesn't include cost you are sadly mistaken.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by reidjr

jemartin
Ottawa has over 800 parks in this city is not in any way lacking in parks.What ottawa is lacking is arenas and sports fields.I am not aginst parks but at the same time you can't turn everything into parks which some seem to want.

The Lansdowne Park Conservancy keeps all the buildings, including the arena, and adds more playing fields where the south stands would have been.

Trees and grass are added throughout the park for absorption, lowering of micro climate, and to add places to relax under the hot sun.

A grass amphitheater adds cultural and the arts opportunities.

For the Ex, it will mean a much more enjoyable experience.

And Trade shows would stay and would not need a new location.

And yes, rent out the hockey arena all summer long, it could be booked all the time in summer as well, if it isnt already.

But at zero taxpayer cost using existing site revenue, in fact increased site revenue due to more rentable options.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Dude, since you hijacked the other Lansdowne thread I've stopped posting in there. Please keep your negative and baseless comments out of this thread as this is a place to discuss the re-development of Lansdowne. No one asked for your opinion regarding some long lost Lansdowne Park that never existed. Either you are 110 years old or you have never seen a Lansdowne without a significant stadium and I hope you never will. We have plenty of beautiful greenspace and nature areas within Ottawa's boundaries and don't need any more of them. If it turns out that your motive for this rabid opposition is that you live in the Glebe then I suggest your move because this is going to pass and it will be spectacular!

No one has hijacked anything. I offer my viewpoint and will answer all commentary as I choose. That is the beauty of a discussion forum.

In fact there was a last option that incorrectly assumed "status quo" when in fact adding simple landscaping methods is both effective and inexpensive.

The re-development of Lansdowne must include a narrative on affordability and viability, both of which are connected at the hip, and none of what has been offered meets the pair.

That you are a fan of spending taxpayer money is too bad since the likelihood of any of these plans passing is low due to exorbitant cost.

And yes I live in the Glebe and have no problem stating my position. To somehow be of the mistaken belief that those most affected by a plan have no say is spurious. The next thing you will say is that those in North Gower have no say on wind turbines in their back yard.

Design involves cost and budget. To think otherwise leaves out probably the most important factors.

As Mayor O'Brien famously said, "anyone can draw a pretty picture", and so far thats all these are.

But what does make sense is simply adding beauty to the site under a model that will gradually and holistically improve her and not boot out all the things that people love such as trade shows and the Ex, or changing Sylvia Holden Park that has nothing wrong with it. And do so simply using existing site revenue and the support of membership under a Conservancy model.

Cost will be the deciding factor and until then all ideas that refer to the re-development of Lansdowne in a sensible and sensitive manner have merit and from those in the Glebe or elsewhere.

This is Ottawa's park, and to completely ignore the tradition of the Ex, the open vistas and rural flavour that started the park, as the 5 designs have done, is truly to ignore the essence of the Park.

[RTWAP]

I would love to see a skating connection between the Canal and a large winter outdoor skating surface in the Park, but the Parks Canada position pretty much rules out any horizontal connection.

So why not go vertical?

Have a chair-lift pick people up from the Canal skating surface (in skates no less), lift them up over the QED and then deposit them on the skating surface in the Park.

I was originally imagining a winter-only connection, but there's no reason you couldn't run it during all seasons. If a floating boardwalk occupied the Canal-side pick-up point, and each end of the loop was engineered to support adjusting the height in spring and fall, then it would be great.

Can you imagine the views that would be offered as people reached the top of the ride over the QED?

It could even be a signature piece, kind of like the eye of London.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by RTWAP

I would love to see a skating connection between the Canal and a large winter outdoor skating surface in the Park, but the Parks Canada position pretty much rules out any horizontal connection.

So why not go vertical?

Have a chair-lift pick people up from the Canal skating surface (in skates no less), lift them up over the QED and then deposit them on the skating surface in the Park.

I was originally imagining a winter-only connection, but there's no reason you couldn't run it during all seasons. If a floating boardwalk occupied the Canal-side pick-up point, and each end of the loop was engineered to support adjusting the height in spring and fall, then it would be great.

Can you imagine the views that would be offered as people reached the top of the ride over the QED?

It could even be a signature piece, kind of like the eye of London.

Fun idea Peter.

[waterloowarrior]

Lansdowne revitalization: Mixed-use development and stadium renewal unveiling

Ottawa – Mayor Larry O’Brien and Councillor Peter Hume, Chair of the Planning and Environment Committee will join Roger Greenberg of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) to unveil the highly anticipated mixed-use and stadium designs for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park.

Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010
Time: 1 to 2:40 p.m.
Location: Bell Theatre, Minto Centre, Carleton University, 1125 Colonel By Drive

OSEG architects Ritchard Brisbin, Barry Hobin and Cannon Design architect Rob Clairborne will provide a detailed explanation of the designs for the mixed-use development and stadium renewal.

[waterloowarrior]

Citizen: Modernist feel proposed for Lansdowne retail

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Moderni...013/story.html

!!

[waterloowarrior]

City website for stadium/mixed use area
http://ottawa.ca/residents/public_co...esigns_en.html

The Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) has unveiled the designs for the stadium and mixed-use area for the proposed redevelopment of Lansdowne.

The goal of architects Ritchard Brisbin, Barry Hobin and Robert Claiborne of Cannon Design in Toronto, was to create an urban space that reflects Lansdowne’s long history as a city, regional and national meeting place.

The design respects the 150-year history of the site, create a lively urban space and fits into its Glebe neighbourhood.

The design includes:
-A refurbished Frank Clair Stadium for CFL football, professional soccer and concerts, featuring a wooden veil that would reflect Ottawa’s history as a lumber town.
-An expansion of the Glebe’s grid street system into Lansdowne to accommodate a mix of commercial space, residential development and public squares.
-The Horticulture Building is given a prominent and historically significant location on the east side of the Aberdeen Pavilion, within Lansdowne’s new urban park, where it could become the site of the Ottawa Farmers’ Market and the location of a Parks Canada Agency interpretation centre for the Rideau Canal.

Residents will be able to provide their comments on the proposed designs beginning June 1 until June 13. The feedback received will be collected and reviewed by the Lansdowne Strategic Design Review and Advisory Panel and City Council.

The designs are also on display from May 28 until June 13 at City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave. W, across from information desk.

[waterloowarrior]

I would love to see a site plan and/or overall aerial

[blackjagger]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I would love to see a site plan and/or overall aerial

I was just thinking that. Looks interesting, but I can't really tell what is going on. Too many different angles each showing very little of the site.

Josh

[phil235]

Originally Posted by blackjagger

I was just thinking that. Looks interesting, but I can't really tell what is going on. Too many different angles each showing very little of the site.

Josh

Ditto. I wonder why they would release it this way, without an overall plan.<

That render showing the stadium and a bit of the development on Bank St. looks great, but you can't tell what the whole picture will look like. Why not provide an elevation of the Bank St. fascades?