Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[c_speed3108]

Well the west end locations certainly made no sense...who would build a bridge at the rivers widest point??? :-)


Hope it is Kettle it makes the most sense. The number one truck destination was the industrial park....might as well feed them right in. It just makes good transportation sense.

[Acajack]

Madeleine Meilleur, God bless her heart, appears to be vying for the grand prize for the greatest political overreaction ever. In today’s LeDroit she is quoted as saying that a bridge at Kettle Island would “destroy Manor Park”, or something to that effect.

She is blatantly playing to her electorate, as are others in that part of Ottawa. Fair game, I guess, but anyone who looks at the Kettle Island corridor on a map can see that there is tons of open space in that area to make the bridge land as far away as possible from any established residential areas, and plenty of room for huge buffer and mitigation zones.

Of course, given the history of this file, who knows if a new bridge will even be built in the lifetimes of anyone reading this thread?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Well the west end locations certainly made no sense...who would build a bridge at the rivers widest point??? :-)

How long have you been living here? I can think of plenty of people who would want to build a bridge where the river is widest... engineering companies, concrete suppliers, construction companies, people who do environmental assessments (more to assess), project managers at the City, MTO and NCC (more people to manage). Sheesh.

As an aside, building a bridge where a river is widest is not always the worst place; often the river is shallowest where it is widest so the footings can be easier to build, or sometimes even a causeway with occasional culverts and a main central span can be used. In the case of the Ottawa River, it's pretty deep at Lac Deschenes, but that's actually rather unusual.

Hope it is Kettle it makes the most sense. The number one truck destination was the industrial park....might as well feed them right in. It just makes good transportation sense.

Which industrial park? There's a factory (a pulp mill I think) at Rue St. Louis and Boul. Maloney but for the most part Gatineau's industrial area is in Hull in the area to the east of Rte 5, north of Rte 50 and west of the Gatineau River. From there, the most direct way into Ottawa is still going to be via the King Edward bridge. Ottawa's industrial area is south of the Queensway and west of the 417 past the split (i.e. straddling the old railway lines). A Kettle Island route certainly makes more sense than the Lower Duck Island route, but one would be hard pressed to say that a Kettle Island route will be the preferred choice of the trucking industry compared to a King Edward route. I can't help but think that eventually we'll find ourselves with a tunnel under one of King Edward, the Rideau River or the Vanier Parkway, in which case we might as well start looking into that now.

The above of course is assuming that the trucks are generally running between places in Ottawa and Gatineau. But if they're not and the purpose of this bridge is to convey trucks from Gatineau to the 417 so they can get to Montreal, then frankly the money would be better spent on a Quebec-side freeway to Montreal. If they're heading to Toronto, then this bridge at Kettle Island really isn't going to do much at all unless its use is mandated.

I fear what will happen is that this bridge will be built in the name of removing trucks from King Edward (that's how it will be "sold" even though the technical reports may say otherwise) but that few trucks will make use of it (at least without sanctions on the use of King Edward) while commuters from Gatineau will flood over the bridge, probably clogging up the Rockcliffe Parkway and turning the already-congested 417-174 'split' into a royal mess.

Meanwhile, the fact that none of the railyards in the region have an intermodal transfer facility goes unremarked (4th largest urban area in the country and we have no way of getting roadtrailers on or off railcars!) while a bridge that could conceivably handle a fair amount of the cross-river freight traffic goes unused. I don't really agree with Ms. Meilleur's solution - a crossing at Lower Duck Island - but I think she's on to something when she says we're designing a solution for the last 50 years and not the next 50. No one seems to have questionned why it is that so much of the freight in the Ottawa-Gatineau region arrives and leaves by truck rather than rail.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dado

How long have you been living here? I can think of plenty of people who would want to build a bridge where the river is widest... engineering companies, concrete suppliers, construction companies, people who do environmental assessments (more to assess), project managers at the City, MTO and NCC (more people to manage). Sheesh.

Sure, but these are mostly people who'd make tons of money off an expensive bridge, with someone else footing the bill..

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Dado

I can't help but think that eventually we'll find ourselves with a tunnel under one of King Edward, the Rideau River or the Vanier Parkway, in which case we might as well start looking into that now.

Except you can't have dangerous goods on trucks in a tunnel, so the tunnel option is out.

Originally Posted by Dado

The above of course is assuming that the trucks are generally running between places in Ottawa and Gatineau. But if they're not and the purpose of this bridge is to convey trucks from Gatineau to the 417 so they can get to Montreal, then frankly the money would be better spent on a Quebec-side freeway to Montreal. If they're heading to Toronto, then this bridge at Kettle Island really isn't going to do much at all unless its use is mandated.

One way or the other, both the trucking industry and the rest of the general population would gain from having trucks cross the river somewhere else. Trucks will save time and King Edward can live again.

Originally Posted by Dado

I fear what will happen is that this bridge will be built in the name of removing trucks from King Edward (that's how it will be "sold" even though the technical reports may say otherwise) but that few trucks will make use of it (at least without sanctions on the use of King Edward) while commuters from Gatineau will flood over the bridge, probably clogging up the Rockcliffe Parkway and turning the already-congested 417-174 'split' into a royal mess.

And what's wrong with having that as the Number One reason to build a new bridge? It's enough of a frikking disgrace to have our downtown core disfigured by the heavy trucking, I can't believe anyone would even legitimize continuing things as they are. When a new bridge is built for the EXPLICIT PURPOSE of ensuring truck crossings, then trucking can be banned from the MacDonald-Cartier Bridge. I'm pretty sure that the eastern crossings all involve a complete interchange between 417 and 174 so capacity will be added there... and as for the kind of congestion we're contemplating, in the big picture I'd rather have it on freeways than at Rideau and King Edward.

Originally Posted by Dado

Meanwhile, the fact that none of the railyards in the region have an intermodal transfer facility goes unremarked (4th largest urban area in the country and we have no way of getting roadtrailers on or off railcars!) while a bridge that could conceivably handle a fair amount of the cross-river freight traffic goes unused. I don't really agree with Ms. Meilleur's solution - a crossing at Lower Duck Island - but I think she's on to something when she says we're designing a solution for the last 50 years and not the next 50. No one seems to have questionned why it is that so much of the freight in the Ottawa-Gatineau region arrives and leaves by truck rather than rail.

Gatineau is planning an intermodal facility at the Gatineau Airport industrial park. And yes the Highway 50 extension will take some truck traffic out of any bridge crossing, but whatever remains has to go somewhere else. Ultimately, car traffic is not and should not drive this bridge, the reconquest of downtown by removing the truck route is and should.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dado

Which industrial park? There's a factory (a pulp mill I think) at Rue St. Louis and Boul. Maloney but for the most part Gatineau's industrial area is in Hull in the area to the east of Rte 5, north of Rte 50 and west of the Gatineau River. From there, the most direct way into Ottawa is still going to be via the King Edward bridge. Ottawa's industrial area is south of the Queensway and west of the 417 past the split (i.e. straddling the old railway lines). A Kettle Island route certainly makes more sense than the Lower Duck Island route, but one would be hard pressed to say that a Kettle Island route will be the preferred choice of the trucking industry compared to a King Edward route. I can't help but think that eventually we'll find ourselves with a tunnel under one of King Edward, the Rideau River or the Vanier Parkway, in which case we might as well start looking into that now.

The above of course is assuming that the trucks are generally running between places in Ottawa and Gatineau. But if they're not and the purpose of this bridge is to convey trucks from Gatineau to the 417 so they can get to Montreal, then frankly the money would be better spent on a Quebec-side freeway to Montreal. If they're heading to Toronto, then this bridge at Kettle Island really isn't going to do much at all unless its use is mandated.

I fear what will happen is that this bridge will be built in the name of removing trucks from King Edward (that's how it will be "sold" even though the technical reports may say otherwise) but that few trucks will make use of it (at least without sanctions on the use of King Edward) while commuters from Gatineau will flood over the bridge, probably clogging up the Rockcliffe Parkway and turning the already-congested 417-174 'split' into a royal mess.

We’ve had this discussion on the forum before.

There is a lot of talk of Montreal-Gatineau trucks going through Ottawa but the truth is that between two thirds and three quarters of the truck traffic on the bridges is local Ottawa-Gatineau truck traffic: Sealtest milk from Ottawa to Gatineau supermarkets, Slush Puppie syrup from Gatineau to Ottawa corner stores, printing jobs from St. Joseph Printing in east end Ottawa to government offices at Place du Portage…

It is true that there is a large industrial park off Autoroute 5 in the north of Hull, but it is 100% built up and most future industrial development in Gatineau will be east along the 50. Plus, the industrial area along the 5 is actually not that far from the intersection of Montée Paiement and the 50, which links up to Kettle Island.

There are significant industrial areas in west end Ottawa but they are generally turned towards southern Ontario and the U.S.

Economic links between Gatineau and Ottawa are more focused on points east, and thus are concentrated in the Innes/Star Top/Hawthorne area in the east end. Once again, the Kettle Island bridge route leads directly there.

Regarding commuters from Gatineau… not sure that many would opt to cross at Kettle Island to jam up the Queensway. The 174/417 split is probably worse than the 50, so it’s not really a logical route to get into downtown Ottawa. Sure, some Gatineau commuters would take the new bridge if they work at Montfort or La Cité collégiale, but if you compare the 50/Maisonneuve/Portage Bridge route into downtown Ottawa to a hypothetical Montée Paiement/Kettle Island/Aviation Parkway/Ogilvie/St. Laurent/Queensway route to the same destination, you’ll see that it would make no sense at all.

Oh, and there will be a direct, pseudo-freeway route through Quebec territory between Gatineau and Montreal as of 2010 or 2011. Though a major segment of it will be a super-2, I expect that much of the truck traffic between the Outaouais and Montreal will take the 50 once completed.

Finally, I agree 100% that as many goods as possible should be moved by rail.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Regarding commuters from Gatineau… not sure that many would opt to cross at Kettle Island to jam up the Queensway. The 174/417 split is probably worse than the 50, so it’s not really a logical route to get into downtown Ottawa. Sure, some Gatineau commuters would take the new bridge if they work at Montfort or La Cité collégiale, but if you compare the 50/Maisonneuve/Portage Bridge route into downtown Ottawa to a hypothetical Montée Paiement/Kettle Island/Aviation Parkway/Ogilvie/St. Laurent/Queensway route to the same destination, you’ll see that it would make no sense at all.

But enough commuters WILL use that route to make it unbearable, guaranteed.

On the Gatineau side, Montée Paiement is such a monument to poor planning. About 50 homes have driveways onto this road, and turning this into THE trucking route between the 50 and 417 would be a horror to them. I can't see how such a case would pass an environmental assessment without massive mitigation (or expropriation) if it were in Ontario.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

But enough commuters WILL use that route to make it unbearable, guaranteed.

On the Gatineau side, Montée Paiement is such a monument to poor planning. About 50 homes have driveways onto this road, and turning this into THE trucking route between the 50 and 417 would be a horror to them. I can't see how such a case would pass an environmental assessment without massive mitigation (or expropriation) if it were in Ontario.

Well, King Edward Avenue between Rideau St. and the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge, which is a designated interprovincial/intercity heavy truck route, has much more than 50 homes along it. And the last time I checked, it was located in Ontario.

Regarding Montée Paiement, though I don’t think that it is perfect, I do believe that it is already designated as a heavy truck route, so building a bridge at one end of it won’t necessarily require any additional approvals.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, King Edward Avenue between Rideau St. and the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge, which is a designated interprovincial/intercity heavy truck route, has much more than 50 homes along it. And the last time I checked, it was located in Ontario.

That was before environmental assessments were done, and King Edward was a temporary solution. If environmental assessments were conducted, either the Macdonald-Cartier bridge would have never been built, or the case for the Vanier Parkway completion would have won out because the sacrificing of a bit of greenspace in New Edinburgh far outweighs the impact of trucks on Lowertown the ByWard Market and Sandy Hill.

King Edward is a trucking route by accident, not by design. Because the Kettle Island bridge is being sold as a way to get trucks out of downtown, in essence a truck route is being deliberately designed as a permanent solution.

[kwoldtimer]

Let the games begin! Just build it, already!!!

[Suzie]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We’ve had this discussion on the forum before.

There is a lot of talk of Montreal-Gatineau trucks going through Ottawa but the truth is that between two thirds and three quarters of the truck traffic on the bridges is local Ottawa-Gatineau truck traffic: Sealtest milk from Ottawa to Gatineau supermarkets, Slush Puppie syrup from Gatineau to Ottawa corner stores, printing jobs from St. Joseph Printing in east end Ottawa to government offices at Place du Portage…

It is true that there is a large industrial park off Autoroute 5 in the north of Hull, but it is 100% built up and most future industrial development in Gatineau will be east along the 50. Plus, the industrial area along the 5 is actually not that far from the intersection of Montée Paiement and the 50, which links up to Kettle Island.

There are significant industrial areas in west end Ottawa but they are generally turned towards southern Ontario and the U.S.

Economic links between Gatineau and Ottawa are more focused on points east, and thus are concentrated in the Innes/Star Top/Hawthorne area in the east end. Once again, the Kettle Island bridge route leads directly there.

Regarding commuters from Gatineau… not sure that many would opt to cross at Kettle Island to jam up the Queensway. The 174/417 split is probably worse than the 50, so it’s not really a logical route to get into downtown Ottawa. Sure, some Gatineau commuters would take the new bridge if they work at Montfort or La Cité collégiale, but if you compare the 50/Maisonneuve/Portage Bridge route into downtown Ottawa to a hypothetical Montée Paiement/Kettle Island/Aviation Parkway/Ogilvie/St. Laurent/Queensway route to the same destination, you’ll see that it would make no sense at all.

Oh, and there will be a direct, pseudo-freeway route through Quebec territory between Gatineau and Montreal as of 2010 or 2011. Though a major segment of it will be a super-2, I expect that much of the truck traffic between the Outaouais and Montreal will take the 50 once completed.

Finally, I agree 100% that as many goods as possible should be moved by rail.

http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/2031Da...nd%20repdf.pdf

I found this map on the study’s website.

I support the Kettle Island option. However, even with a new bridge there, King Edward would remain the most attractive route for many trucks crossing the River. If trucks were banned from that street, there is a danger that some of them would divert to the Chaudiere Bridge, instead of Kettle Island. This would result in some negative community impacts. To prevent that, you'd need to impose even more restrictions on truck movements. This could result in some pretty circuitous truck movements.

Regarding rail as an alternative, I don't think CP or CN has shown any interest in providing intermodal rail service to/from the Ottawa region.

[Mille Sabords]

There is another eastern option than Kettle Island that will address trucking and will not recreate another King Edward along Montée Paiement: Lower Duck. Goes through the Greenbelt in Ottawa - so I hope the health of downtown and King Edward, and of Montée Paiement, can win the day over the little flowers and grasses.

[Acajack]

I just think that at the very least another bridge in the east end (wherever it is) will at a minimum give the option of doing something to restrict heavy truck traffic (maybe not all of it) on King Edward. At the moment, there is no such option.

Montée Paiement was recently upgraded to four divided lanes with significant setbacks and only has a handful of houses close to the road with driveways backing onto it. Think of Baseline Road where it is lined with townhouses east of Woodroffe, but way less dense and nowhere near for as long a distance.

Regarding Lower Duck Island, the area on the Gatineau side is initially undeveloped when you first reach the Quebec shore, but things then get tricky when you try and link up with the 50 north of Maloney. The road link to the 50 is boulevard Lorrain, a narrow two lane street which is actually the heart of an old village and resembles typical small town Quebec with houses very close to the road with little or no front lawns. Much more disruptive than routing via Paiement.

On the other hand, maps show there is enough open space in the area north of Maloney to build an entirely new road link to the 50 that would completely avoid any built-up areas. Not sure who owns the land, though.

Lower Duck Island is also quite a bit further out of the city core, and when compared to Paiement/Kettle wouldn’t provide as easy a link to the Hull industrial area off the 5, central areas of Gatineau, and the Plateau and Aylmer areas further west.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

There is another eastern option than Kettle Island that will address trucking and will not recreate another King Edward along Montée Paiement: Lower Duck. Goes through the Greenbelt in Ottawa - so I hope the health of downtown and King Edward, and of Montée Paiement, can win the day over the little flowers and grasses.

Except that the consultants already picked Kettle Island from the options.

Kettle Island and the Duck Islands are pretty neat places if you ever get a chance to get to them. They are riddled with blind channels full of turtles and fish, sheltered from the river's current. I took these photos earlier this year:





The river is surprisingly shallow in parts, and with some other very low islands in between like this one, with plants that do a great job of cleaning the river:

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Except you can't have dangerous goods on trucks in a tunnel, so the tunnel option is out.

Is that an actual fact? What's the rationale for not having dangerous goods trucks in a tunnel? That they might spontaneously blow up? (Ok, bad example considering we just had a bus do just that, but I digress). After all, the likelihood of an accident involving a dangerous goods truck (or anything for that matter) is far more likely on a road with many intersections and entrances than it is in a tunnel without any. Tunnels also now have all sorts of safety features (cameras, sprinklers, ventilation, shelters) to minimize the dangers. At any rate, even if they are banned from using a tunnel, what fraction of the truck traffic on King Edward do dangerous goods trucks represent? Whatever fraction it is could be diverted to the Chaudiere bridge or the Prince of Wales bridge on the back of a train.

One way or the other, both the trucking industry and the rest of the general population would gain from having trucks cross the river somewhere else. Trucks will save time and King Edward can live again.

I don't think the trucking industry is necessarily going to agree with you. It depends on where they're coming from and where they're going. Detours of 10 km are possible with the Kettle Island crossing. For some trips, the time taken by a Kettle Island routing will be more than by the McDonald-Cartier routing, and if the difference is enough the downtown route will be chosen by the driver.

And what's wrong with having that as the Number One reason to build a new bridge?

There's nothing wrong with it, but that's not exclusively why a bridge is being built, though it is being "sold" that way. The downtown truck issue is just one of many reasons that a bridge is being considered.

It's enough of a frikking disgrace to have our downtown core disfigured by the heavy trucking, I can't believe anyone would even legitimize continuing things as they are.

I hope you're not implying that that's what I'm doing. I simply looked at the possible sources and destinations of truck traffic and figured that a lot of truck traffic would continue to use King Edward if it could, hence my conclusion that a tunnel in that corridor might be worth examining. Anything heading to points west from Hull for example would be very unlikely to use the Kettle Island bridge.

When a new bridge is built for the EXPLICIT PURPOSE of ensuring truck crossings, then trucking can be banned from the MacDonald-Cartier Bridge.

Well that's the crux of the matter, isn't it? It's not being built explicitly for that purpose nor is there any mention of banning trucking from the McD-C Bridge.

Gatineau is planning an intermodal facility at the Gatineau Airport industrial park.

That's encouraging; now we need one on the Ottawa side as well (Walkley Yard being the logical place for one).

And yes the Highway 50 extension will take some truck traffic out of any bridge crossing, but whatever remains has to go somewhere else. Ultimately, car traffic is not and should not drive this bridge, the reconquest of downtown by removing the truck route is and should.

It should, but it isn't. And that's the point I keep trying to drive home.

From http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/background.html :

The different levels of government responsible for planning and managing the National Capital Region (NCR) have long been aware of the interprovincial transportation challenges. Previous planning studies (see links below) have identified the Region’s lack of sufficient interprovincial crossing capacity during peak hours as a key constraint to an integrated and efficient interprovincial transportation network.

"Crossing capacity during peak hours". Read it and weep. This bridge is for commuters' cars. If it was for trucks alone, a simple two-lane bridge would do it, but somehow I think it'll be much wider than that. And it gets worse... one of those 'previous planning studies' says this:

A new bridge to the east would permit truckers and commuters to bypass
downtown Ottawa and thereby reduce commercial vehicle traffic over the
Chaudières and MacDonald-Cartier crossings by about 25%.

http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/Documents...THE1999_en.pdf

Even if truck traffic is reduced disproportionately on the MacDonald-Cartier crossing, you're still not looking at 100% diversion or anything close to 100%.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Suzie

Regarding rail as an alternative, I don't think CP or CN has shown any interest in providing intermodal rail service to/from the Ottawa region.

Have you looked at their rail networks in the Ottawa region recently? Right, they don't have any.

From the Toronto side, CN has no easy way of getting here ever since they abandonned the line from Smiths Falls to Napanee (and the only reason the line from Ottawa to Smiths Falls still exists is because of VIA). For its part, CP can get to Smiths Falls from Toronto (and Brockville), but can no longer get to Ottawa, having abandonned both the line from Carleton Place and from Kemptville.

From Western Canada CN has no way in at all; they abandonned their lines through Algonquin Park in the 90s (bet they're teed off at themselves now that Chicago is one big congested railyard). CP can get to Pembroke and interchange with OCR there (which they do) or to Arnprior, except there's 250 m of missing track that no one has seen fit to build and now that the oh-so-rail-friendly City of Ottawa owns the line from there to Kanata via Carp it's probably a lost cause.

From Montreal, CN can (and does) interchange with OCR, but they no longer have a direct way in. CP's abandonment and selling of its corridors has had the same effect.

In other words, neither CN nor CP have a direct rail connection with the nation's capital and neither can secure good connections from all directions without using some of the other's trackage. So it's not too surprising that neither has an interest in doing anything.

In reality it would be up to the two (or rather five...) railway companies that exist here: the Ottawa Central and the Quebec Gatineau Railway. I say five because the NCC is also a railway and so is the City of Ottawa (Capital Railway), and VIA would have to be involved as well. In some ways this is fortunate because all the companies that would have to be involved to make both intermodal service to the NCR work and carry freight across the river are 'local' or are ultimately controlled from here. A little chatting up of some local federal ministers by the City of Ottawa to get some intermodal facilities constructed along with some track upgrading where needed could go a long way. Once that's done CP and CN would be quite willing to drop off intermodal cars at their current transfer points. But that's the kind of vision frequently lacking here in bus-and-road loving Ottawa - we'd just as soon carry on watching trucks rumble through downtown than work with a few private and public sector partners to address the issue.

[waterloowarrior]

all the info, including maps (confirms that kettle island is the recommended route)
http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/public...ion_no._4.html

the new 'split' looks interesting.... (figure 3)

[Kitchissippi]

Good points, Dado.

I've always thought that if the Vanier Parkway had been connected to the M-C bridge, trucking through downtown would be a non-issue today. And instead of talking about a new bridge which will probably cost over half a billion, we could be considering investing in better inter-provincial public transportation instead to relieve peak hour congestion.

It is not just trucking that is ruining King Edward and Lowertown, it is the sheer number of cars, which won't go away even if a new bridge were built. That avenue seriously needs to be decoupled from the bridge. The best solution would be a bridge across the Rideau and a partial cut-and-cover to the Vanier Parkway. Any new inter-provincial crossings should be attempted by LRT before anything else. I bet if someone dared to open a can of worms and do a proper big-picture analysis, that would end up being the cheapest and most logical approach.

[Deez]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

all the info, including maps (confirms that kettle island is the recommended route)
http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/en/public...ion_no._4.html

the new 'split' looks interesting.... (figure 3)

Oh god that thing's going to be a monster. I count at least 3 spots where there will be 3 levels of traffic (EB-NB over the WB-NB and the Transitway, NB-EB over the NB-WB and EB 174 and EB-NB over the SB Aviation and WB 174). MTO must be juicing. Blegh.

Also, how on earth is traffic NOT going to back up into the non-grade-separated Ogilvie intersection. The WB split can already be a crawl in the AM...what's going to happen when you throw in X-thousand Gatineau commuters eager to shave off 5 minutes from their commute? In my mind, this is the biggest reason why Kettle Island is the wrong choice...it offers far too much convenience for Gatinois who are looking for a new way to get downtown. It will invariable lead to more congestion on the queensway and more car dependence and the sprawl that goes along with it (and vice versa). In a perfect world the bridge would be tolled and/or be limited to truck traffic, but I'm telling you right now it's not going to happen.

[Suzie]

Originally Posted by Dado

Have you looked at their rail networks in the Ottawa region recently? Right, they don't have any.

From the Toronto side, CN has no easy way of getting here ever since they abandonned the line from Smiths Falls to Napanee (and the only reason the line from Ottawa to Smiths Falls still exists is because of VIA). For its part, CP can get to Smiths Falls from Toronto (and Brockville), but can no longer get to Ottawa, having abandonned both the line from Carleton Place and from Kemptville.

From Western Canada CN has no way in at all; they abandonned their lines through Algonquin Park in the 90s (bet they're teed off at themselves now that Chicago is one big congested railyard). CP can get to Pembroke and interchange with OCR there (which they do) or to Arnprior, except there's 250 m of missing track that no one has seen fit to build and now that the oh-so-rail-friendly City of Ottawa owns the line from there to Kanata via Carp it's probably a lost cause.

From Montreal, CN can (and does) interchange with OCR, but they no longer have a direct way in. CP's abandonment and selling of its corridors has had the same effect.

In other words, neither CN nor CP have a direct rail connection with the nation's capital and neither can secure good connections from all directions without using some of the other's trackage. So it's not too surprising that neither has an interest in doing anything.

In reality it would be up to the two (or rather five...) railway companies that exist here: the Ottawa Central and the Quebec Gatineau Railway. I say five because the NCC is also a railway and so is the City of Ottawa (Capital Railway), and VIA would have to be involved as well. In some ways this is fortunate because all the companies that would have to be involved to make both intermodal service to the NCR work and carry freight across the river are 'local' or are ultimately controlled from here. A little chatting up of some local federal ministers by the City of Ottawa to get some intermodal facilities constructed along with some track upgrading where needed could go a long way. Once that's done CP and CN would be quite willing to drop off intermodal cars at their current transfer points. But that's the kind of vision frequently lacking here in bus-and-road loving Ottawa - we'd just as soon carry on watching trucks rumble through downtown than work with a few private and public sector partners to address the issue.

Hi Dado,

CN and CP are the ones that offer domestic inter-modal services in Canada and they know the business better than anybody. If they saw real potential here, I’m sure they’d be cutting deals with the area’s shortlines to gain access. But they are not.

The only type of service that would be remotely practical for Ottawa would be one like CP’s Expressway. It can accept normal trailers (unlike RoadRailer) and the terminal could be pretty basic (as compared to what is required to handle containers). CP currently runs Expressway in the Montreal-Toronto-Windsor-Detroit corridor (i.e., Canada’s most heavily used and congested truck corridor by far). The twice-daily service has been able to capture a small fraction of the trailers that travel down this corridor every day.

The economics of a service to/from Ottawa with even Expressway would be extremely poor. The overall traffic levels and density are a small fraction of those in the Montreal-Toronto-Windsor-Detroit corridor so it would not be sufficient to support daily service. Without regular and convenient service, few if any truckers would use it. Further, the distance between Ottawa and Montreal is way too short to make any sort of inter-modal service viable (especially if you take drayage costs into account). Ottawa-Toronto is somewhat longer, but still shorter than Montreal-Toronto.

I, like most people, would like to see fewer trucks on our roads and highways. However, I don’t think inter-modal service to Ottawa is a realistic option. Even it were, based on the experience in the Highway 401 corridor, it would only capture a small fraction of the traffic.