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  #1941  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 10:04 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
By the way, I was studying M.T.O.'s proposal of Highway 17 Matawa Bypass the other day. What I noticed was that the North-Bay-bound lanes would utilize the ROW of Ottawa Valley Rail. That said, once the bypass is built, the ship really will have sailed for rail transportation in Upper Ottawa Valley.
I'm just looking forward to twinning 17 to Renfrew first. I doubt there will ever again be train tracks up the Valley beyond what still exists to Arnprior.
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  #1942  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
I doubt there will ever again be train tracks up the Valley beyond what still exists to Arnprior.
I agree. The track isn't coming back. My point was more that if the ROWs were publicly owned, one of the 3 ROWs may have been preserved.
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  #1943  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 2:52 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I agree. The track isn't coming back. My point was more that if the ROWs were publicly owned, one of the 3 ROWs may have been preserved.
The best ROW was the one that went through the northern part of Algonquin Park (CN) but park officials were intent in getting rid of it. I think it was removed in 1996.
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  #1944  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 11:07 AM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The best ROW was the one that went through the northern part of Algonquin Park (CN) but park officials were intent in getting rid of it. I think it was removed in 1996.
Why was that (the CN route via Brent) the best alignment when it virtually avoided any population between Pembroke and Thunder Bay, while the CP route (i.e. the one which served communities like Petawawa, Chalk River, Deep River and Mattawa and therefore saw passenger service past 1978 - when it was abandoned on your prefered CN line - and until 1990)?
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Disclaimer: I am employed by VIA Rail. However, the opinions expressed here are my own and VIA is in no way liable or responsible for their content. Comments and figures posted by me here should be treated as the work of an enthusiastic University student currently researching part-time on related topics and not in any way be linked to my employment at VIA Rail.
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  #1945  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 1:40 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I agree. The track isn't coming back. My point was more that if the ROWs were publicly owned, one of the 3 ROWs may have been preserved.
I think the best we could ever hope for someday is a commuter train from Arnprior and even that’s a stretch.
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  #1946  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The best ROW was the one that went through the northern part of Algonquin Park (CN) but park officials were intent in getting rid of it. I think it was removed in 1996.
I wouldn't underestimate how the issues resulting from a rail line bisecting a Provincial (or National) park.

The other problem with the old Canadian Northern ROW is that it crosses the Ottawa river twice.

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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
Why was that (the CN route via Brent) the best alignment when it virtually avoided any population between Pembroke and Thunder Bay, while the CP route (i.e. the one which served communities like Petawawa, Chalk River, Deep River and Mattawa and therefore saw passenger service past 1978 - when it was abandoned on your prefered CN line - and until 1990)?
You are looking at it from a passenger perspective. Passenger service along this route will unlikely ever be viable. From a freight perspective, not having mile long freight trains (potentially caring dangerous goods) rumble through town, isolating parts of town from emergency services, is a good thing (just look at the issues Bellville is having with CP's Bellville Sub).
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  #1947  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
Why was that (the CN route via Brent) the best alignment when it virtually avoided any population between Pembroke and Thunder Bay, while the CP route (i.e. the one which served communities like Petawawa, Chalk River, Deep River and Mattawa and therefore saw passenger service past 1978 - when it was abandoned on your prefered CN line - and until 1990)?
It was the most direct route to the Sudbury area. I was looking at it from a freight perspective as an alternative connection to Northern Ontario and the west and with the understanding that at the time of the elimination of all rail service in the Ottawa Valley, that there was no freight customers left.
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  #1948  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 3:44 AM
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Okay I know we’re digressing quite a bit, but the area around where Ottawa Valley Rail used to go between Deux Rivières and Bissett Creek, what’s the typology there like? Is it like swamps/muskegs sandwiched between mountains?
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We'll soon begin work to extend Highway 417 to Renfrew, first replacing the intersection of Calabogie Road with an interchange!

On va prolonger l'Autoroute 417 jusqu'à Renfrew à bientôt, tout en remplaçant l'intersection du Chemin Calabogie à un échangeur d'abord!
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  #1949  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
It was the most direct route to the Sudbury area. I was looking at it from a freight perspective as an alternative connection to Northern Ontario and the west and with the understanding that at the time of the elimination of all rail service in the Ottawa Valley, that there was no freight customers left.
The CN route was not any more direct than the CP route, The difference is in the the grades and the curvatures. The CP route has steeper grades than CN particularly the Deux Rivieres section compared to Brent n the CN line.

Even with the loss of business in the Ottawa valley there was enough bridge traffic to keep one line open for joint use by both CN and CP. This would have allowed an alternative route during blockades and less interference from CN freights for Via trains on the lakeshore route.
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  #1950  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Would there even be close to enough ridership to support an Ottawa Valley line sans some very heavy subsidies?
We subsidize private automobile and truck transportation, so I don't see why we shouldn't also subsidize rail transporation, especially considering it's much better for the planet.
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More like HYPE-rloop amirite?
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  #1951  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
We subsidize private automobile and truck transportation, so I don't see why we shouldn't also subsidize rail transporation, especially considering it's much better for the planet.
Sure. But if the ridership can only fill a coach bus every hour, why would you build a rail line?
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  #1952  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Sure. But if the ridership can only fill a coach bus every hour, why would you build a rail line?
We're not talking about building a rail line, merely not destroying it
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More like HYPE-rloop amirite?
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  #1953  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 1:06 AM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
We're not talking about building a rail line, merely not destroying it
Agreed, but in order to justify preserving a ROW by continuously paying for its upkeep only makes sense if there is any traffic which requires this ROW. And if both CN and CP conclude that accepting a 250 km detour over the almost 5000 km distance between Montreal and Vancouver is cheaper than keeping tracks in the Ottawa valley active, then this is a rational business decision.

Maybe if week-long blockades become a yearly occurrence, this calculation might change, but I’d assume that It would be much cheaper for them to use the HFR route via Hevelock (by night, presumably) and to pay VIA (or whoever is going to own these tracks) for the excessive tear and wear caused by operating freight trains over tracks where the superelevation has not been optimized for slower freight traffic than to rebuild a formerly existent ROW which is progressively severed by urban developments or highway expansions...
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Disclaimer: I am employed by VIA Rail. However, the opinions expressed here are my own and VIA is in no way liable or responsible for their content. Comments and figures posted by me here should be treated as the work of an enthusiastic University student currently researching part-time on related topics and not in any way be linked to my employment at VIA Rail.
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  #1954  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 2:43 AM
roger1818 roger1818 is online now
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
We're not talking about building a rail line, merely not destroying it
It’s a bit late for that. All three lines through the western Ottawa Valley have been torn up.
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  #1955  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2020, 4:16 AM
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Not specifically about VIA Rail, but it is interesting that Canadian Pacific has re-acquired the railway through Maine that they had disposed of in 1994. The latter disposal was the reason why passenger service was discontinued on that route to Saint John. This gives Canadian Pacific Atlantic port access at both Saint John and Searsport Maine.

https://www.cpr.ca/en/media/cp-compl...quebec-railway
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