Phoenix CityScape Thread

[loftlovr]

Soleri- I appreciate your opinions and I do not mistake it for negativity-
I think you're the biggest Downtown fan of us all-
You've just been around a bit longer and you've seen many of these types of projects fail in their attempts.... Maybe the young blood and the fact many of the people on this board are without long memories is a good thing!
At any rate- I think your thoughts are well supported.

As for my thoughts on Cityscape-
Smaller, nichier, artsier restaurants and retail usually means smaller wallets.
PF Changs, Borders etc may not be what any of us want- but they can survive a dismal year should they have to in the loading phase.
Kierland and Fashion Park and Mill have these places too.....
I wanted something like a Horton Plaza with some Towers.
It falls short.
I don't want to lose RED. I don't want to wait another 10 years for something else to come along. However- I wish RED would have turned the buildings outward a bit more.
What the hell was the pages and pages of rant on their forum if not to express the need of the buildings to face outward?
How hard is that?
I am no architect and I could have done that part right in my design.
That part practically can never be undone- if built as is- and if the 1 tower and small retail portion are all that get built- it could be another Colliers Center.
-I especially don't trust the residential portion right now- As Soleri calls out, "Based off of what demand?"
So maybe I am just restating portions of all of your thoughts....
I am confused.
I don't see why we can't get an interesting Horton Plaza type project.
We have so much to play with here!

I do have faith it will be more than a run of the mill dead beat project when built out...
I even think the AZ Center will be happening soon with all of the ASU students parading about.
-I wish RED could just play with the redesign a bit more, try to get another interesting tenant or two in that park area, maybe create a fitness center or something that plays with the crowd a bit more.... turn some buildings towards the street...

Truth is- it is an important piece of land- we don't need another Colliers.

But I think it has enough juice to be a little more of what we hope for it to be. The projected retail is about triple AZ Centers?
What is there right now is killing me!
-That doesn't mean we should give it to the first developer that shows us their titties.
-But ther should be another solution.

It is not a hard choice for me-

Cityscape as is?
or
Patriots Park as is?

I'll take Cityscape. Sad that is has to be that way- maybe RED will impress us all in the design.
The architect seems pretty bad ass any way....