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  #1201  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 1:01 PM
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I still say bring this sucker by me. Building it right over the tracks in the south end of grant park. Screw those LSE people, we'll take fewer exposed tracks in the south loop anytime.
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  #1202  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 1:36 PM
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Now THAT'S Nimbyism



Garfield Ridge housing plan slammed
DEVELOPMENT | Residents cite congestion, 'Section 8' fears

June 7, 2007
BY FRAN SPIELMAN AND DAVID ROEDER fspielman@suntimes.com/droeder@suntimes.com

http://www.suntimes.com/business/417...dway07.article

Concerned about traffic congestion and neighborhood safety and fearful of subsidized housing, Garfield Ridge residents are mobilizing to block a developer's plan to build 212 homes on a predominantly vacant 5-acre tract just outside Midway Airport.

Working independently and through the Garfield Ridge Civic League, the residents are signing petitions and calling local officials to press their argument that the project should be scrapped or drastically downsized. Many criticize their alderman, Michael Zalewski of the 23rd Ward, for supporting the project over their objections.

"We don't mind single-family dwellings, but this is a joke. It would bring in 500 to 800 people" into a small area alongside an active railroad line, said Frank Hartman, whose home is near the parcel.

Developer Glenn Azuma has asked the city for a zoning change that would let him build a dozen townhomes and 200 condominiums no higher than three or four stories. The property runs from 55th to 59th streets two blocks west of Central Avenue, which is Midway's western boundary.

The land includes unused right-of-way of the Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad and an active line of the Belt Railway Co. of Chicago.

Richard Techman, president of the Garfield Ridge Civic League, said adding so many homes into a small space raises concerns for an area dominated by single-family housing. He said rail crossings already limit the neighborhood's access to police and fire services.

Subsidized housing isn't a part of the plan, but residents of the middle-class area on Chicago's southwestern edge tend to distrust any plan for multifamily housing.

Azuma previously told the Sun-Times he plans to market the condos to senior citizens who want to stay in the neighborhood but give up their single-family homes.

Garfield Ridge resident Carla Bowen said, "Parking is a huge issue. Section 8 [the former name of the federal government's housing subsidies] is a huge issue. We don't want it. This is a nice neighborhood. We want to keep it that way. . . . I already can't send my children to the public schools in this area. They're not safe."

Zalewski said the Section 8 argument is a "scare tactic" and that the rumors often attach themselves to any residential development in his ward.

He insisted Garfield Ridge residents have legitimate concerns about parking and traffic congestion. If city planners determine that the neighborhood can't handle the influx of homes, the development will be "scaled way down," the alderman said.

"No one is trying to hide anything or sneak anything by. Nothing is going to happen overnight until everybody looks at it to make sure it fits right. But just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea," he said.

Rose Campbell, a member of the civic league's board, said residents voiced their opposition to Zalewski in 2005 when he first suggested a zoning change for the property. Zalewski "just does not listen to the residents of the Garfield Ridge community," she said in an e-mail to the Sun-Times.

The development would be just a couple blocks from 55th and Central, where a skidding Southwest Airlines jet crashed through the airport fence in December 2005 and hit a car, killing a 6-year-old boy.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 2:49 PM
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This is unfortunate but it doesn't surprise me....they are rather cloistered down there...most development is of the outer neighborhood / suburban variety....just look as cicero around that area...strip mall hell

Quote:
Garfield Ridge resident Carla Bowen said, "Parking is a huge issue. Section 8 [the former name of the federal government's housing subsidies] is a huge issue. We don't want it. This is a nice neighborhood. We want to keep it that way. . . . I already can't send my children to the public schools in this area. They're not safe."
Read oh no....that would mean there might be black people...oh for heavens sake that would be intolerable


disgusting


and just what does the below have to do with this development
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The development would be just a couple blocks from 55th and Central, where a skidding Southwest Airlines jet crashed through the airport fence in December 2005 and hit a car, killing a 6-year-old boy.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 2:51 PM
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^ Good grief. I'd upzone it just to spite them.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 2:58 PM
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not chicago but chicago land....I thought mega-malls were dinosaurs

link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...l=chi-news-hed

Other than just being resistant to such developments....& I thought the age of the suburban mega-mall had subsided......
...my fear over this is that it will canibalize DT Joliet which I thought had been having a bit of a renaissance over the past decade....I really think this could spell trouble for Joliet's DT.
DT Joliet could use this investment....instead it is being stuffed in some bland POS that allegedly is "ped" friendly......really.....hmm.....how does one get to the ped friendly mall?
answer: Of course one drives, each to his own single occupancy vehicle

This development is wasteful in so many ways.....why can't joliet place a decentralized development that would approach these space characteristics in its DT
Major mall proposed in Joliet
Upscale, 'pedestrian friendly' center would be located near I-55 and I-80

By Dennis Sullivan
Special to the Tribune
Published June 7, 2007

The 1.7 million-square-foot shopping center planned for Interstate Highways 55 and 80 in Joliet would dwarf the existing Westfield Louis Joliet Mall and mirror the upscale Oakbrook Center, the California-based developer said.

Chris Shane, vice president of acquisitions for O&S Holdings Inc., said the firm initially would mix entertainment and restaurants with "big box" retailers, national department stores, specialty stores and a no-frills hotel in a "pedestrian friendly" environment. In the future, the development could be expanded by 1.2 million square feet to accommodate offices and a hotel-convention center, he said.

Shane told the City Council's Public Service Committee this week that the firm has contracts on 15 contiguous parcels, or about 320 acres.

"I'd like to be moving dirt next year," he said, adding that the mall could open as early as 2009. "This is a hard corner and a major intersection; you can't do better."

O&S, with 80 developments in its portfolio, has pushed plans for developing the Joliet site as a "mixed-use, open-air lifestyle center" for about a year, but with little public fanfare.

City Planning Director Don Fisher said the proposed "super regional mall" would be nearly twice the size of the 950,000-square-foot Westfield Louis Joliet Mall. He termed the O&S project a "modern version" of the roughly 2 million-square-foot Oakbrook Center in Oak Brook, with "a major hotel and conference center, and major movies."

Fisher said the project's upscale nature and visibility translate into "our best chance of getting corporate offices in the city of Joliet."

The proposal came to light recently at hearings on a controversial proposal to build a highway through the Joliet Junior College campus that would connect I-55 with Houbolt Road. City Manager John Mezera said revisions to the east-west connector plans accommodate concerns about safety, security, land use and environmental impact.

Mezera said the retail-office project could produce as much as $15 million to $20 million a year in sales tax revenue.

Joliet would provide some infrastructure improvements but won't otherwise subsidize the development, he said. The city also wants 50 percent of sales taxes earmarked to pay back bonds for Houbolt Road access improvements. The rest would go into general revenue, he said.

Some council members expressed concerns, including Finance Committee Chairman Tony Uremovic, who noted the developer is touting the location on its Web site "without our approval."

But Fisher noted that O&S has "to bring all the retailers in themselves to investigate" whether the site meets their expectations. "They have to market themselves and they have to market the site."
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  #1206  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 6:07 PM
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The Garfield Ridge project is exactly the type of development we need in this city. It's near a transit line and it would cater to middle class families. The opposition to it is outright sickening.

About the Joliet mall: Malls aren't a thing of the past. Woodfield-style (confusing, and mostly indoor) malls are a thing of the past. Expect this thing to be along the lines of street of woodfield or deer park town center with some pomo or neo-classical fascade, a few benches and fountains, and the typical occupants (potbelly's, ann taylor loft, gap, barnes & noble, etc.). Here are some pics of deer park town center constructed 5 years ago or so. I'm thinking it will look something like this:


Don't forget the parking


As for draining the life out of downtown, that doesn't have to be the case. It seems to me the most successful way of revitalizing downtown has been to allow for development along the highways (eg this kind of mall) and use the tax revenue to subsidize the downtown core (through TIF or otherwise). In fact I can't think of any suburb that has successfully revitalized its downtown without implementing some variation of this model.

Last edited by Marcu; Jun 7, 2007 at 6:14 PM.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...089&TM=82911.7
Mary Zavett, who lives at Michigan and Van Buren, said she cannot understand why some residents are so adamantly against having the Children's Museum in Grant Park.

"I have grandchildren in the city, and I think it would be wonderful not to have [the museum] tied up with the commercialism of Navy Pier," Zavett said. "In the long run I think it will be excellent."
this is the best remark i've heard to date.
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  #1208  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
. It seems to me the most successful way of revitalizing downtown has been to allow for development along the highways (eg this kind of mall) and use the tax revenue to subsidize the downtown core (through TIF or otherwise). In fact I can't think of any suburb that has successfully revitalized its downtown without implementing some variation of this model.
well, evanston was able to revitalize its downtown without the aid of "development along the highways", but then evanston doesn't have any highways that run through it to begin with.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 7:14 PM
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well, evanston was able to revitalize its downtown without the aid of "development along the highways", but then evanston doesn't have any highways that run through it to begin with.
I stand corrected. But then again Evanston has the stripmall belt around Dodge and McCormick with a Target, Sams's Club, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. so Evanston gets plenty of tax revenue from similar sources.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
Woodfield-style (confusing, and mostly indoor) malls are a thing of the past.
Strange...how Woodfield is doing so well as a mall........I do not like malls...but had to call you out on your false statement.

Expect this thing to be along the lines of street of woodfield

Streets of Woodfield SUCKS....

And you need to give us examples of citiese that rebuilt strong thriving downtowns cores by allowing for developement along the highways and "used the tax revenue to subsidize the downtown core." Give us some examples please.
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  #1211  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 9:50 PM
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I stand corrected. But then again Evanston has the stripmall belt around Dodge and McCormick with a Target, Sams's Club, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. so Evanston gets plenty of tax revenue from similar sources.
Downtown Evanston redeveloped "dispite" these other stores. I never knew Evanston had diverted taxes from these stores to create downtown....please share with the room.
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  #1212  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
I stand corrected. But then again Evanston has the stripmall belt around Dodge and McCormick with a Target, Sams's Club, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. so Evanston gets plenty of tax revenue from similar sources.
Come on you are reaching here to stress your point that strip mall along dodge is dreadful.....it really is two separate demographics between that mall and DT evanston.....to imply that this mall is responsible for the resurgence of DT evanston is disingenous
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  #1213  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2007, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
The Garfield Ridge project is exactly the type of development we need in this city. It's near a transit line and it would cater to middle class families. The opposition to it is outright sickening.

About the Joliet mall: Malls aren't a thing of the past. Woodfield-style (confusing, and mostly indoor) malls are a thing of the past. Expect this thing to be along the lines of street of woodfield or deer park town center with some pomo or neo-classical fascade, a few benches and fountains, and the typical occupants (potbelly's, ann taylor loft, gap, barnes & noble, etc.). Here are some pics of deer park town center constructed 5 years ago or so. I'm thinking it will look something like this:


Don't forget the parking


As for draining the life out of downtown, that doesn't have to be the case. It seems to me the most successful way of revitalizing downtown has been to allow for development along the highways (eg this kind of mall) and use the tax revenue to subsidize the downtown core (through TIF or otherwise). In fact I can't think of any suburb that has successfully revitalized its downtown without implementing some variation of this model.
I see this more along the lines of the way that large mall and the big boxes in & around Lasalle-peru sucked the life out of it DT to a large extent in the past

Joliet is alot larger than lasalle-peru : 100K vs about 20K but I think there is a certain parallel there perhaps ad joliet really only recently has become a "suburb" of chicago, it has for most of its existence been a semi-major regional center for commerce, in parallel with the way Lasalle-Peru operatesin its region
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  #1214  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 2:16 AM
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Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman View Post
Come on you are reaching here to stress your point that strip mall along dodge is dreadful.....it really is two separate demographics between that mall and DT evanston.....to imply that this mall is responsible for the resurgence of DT evanston is disingenous
^ True.

But along these same lines, to compare Evanston to a "typical" Chicago suburb isn't really fair either. It's got real mass transit, a historic core built around a downtown, existing housing, student population, etc. It's really a Chicago neighborhood with its own government.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 4:52 AM
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Both Louis Joliet Mall and this new proposal are so unrelated to downtown Joliet that they may as well be in another county. The story in that part of the world is Plainfield--and some nearby areas that Joliet has annexed, far west of the old downtown. The area west of I-55 is developing like crazy, with middle-class homeowners. They want places to shop and to take the wife for a nice dinner on Saturday night.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 6:43 AM
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Both Louis Joliet Mall and this new proposal are so unrelated to downtown Joliet that they may as well be in another county. The story in that part of the world is Plainfield--and some nearby areas that Joliet has annexed, far west of the old downtown. The area west of I-55 is developing like crazy, with middle-class homeowners. They want places to shop and to take the wife for a nice dinner on Saturday night.
Well thats not quite true....Joliet to Plainfield is like 7 - 10 miles......perhaps even less in spots..perhaps a touch more in others

I live in RP and that is like 9 miles + to DT Chi.....it doens't stop me from going DT

so I guess you arfe tellling me is that these people are satisfied even gratified w/ chain banality

I guess if you live in a beige vinyl house you like beige vinyl food
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  #1217  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman View Post
I live in RP and that is like 9 miles + to DT Chi.....it doens't stop me from going DT
Because you find something when you get there.

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so I guess you are tellling me is that these people are satisfied even gratified w/ chain banality I guess if you live in a beige vinyl house you like beige vinyl food
Let's just say that downtown Joliet is not meeting these new residents' needs, either for family-friendly places like Chili's and Applebee's or for white-tablecloth places to take a date. A taqueria with fluorescent lights humming over the Formica tables and mystery meat in the tortas might be an adventure for a single young urban-dweller, but it's not a suburban family's idea of fun. Could downtown Joliet be redeveloped like Naperville has been? Possibly. But Joliet is not exactly booming (in any category other than new houses in its far west reaches), nor is its downtown surrounded by high-income residents.

Last edited by Mr Downtown; Jun 8, 2007 at 5:51 PM.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 5:52 PM
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To respond to all the hostile remarks…

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Originally Posted by Chicago3rd View Post
Strange...how Woodfield is doing so well as a mall........I do not like malls...but had to call you out on your false statement.

Expect this thing to be along the lines of street of woodfield

Streets of Woodfield SUCKS....

And you need to give us examples of citiese that rebuilt strong thriving downtowns cores by allowing for developement along the highways and "used the tax revenue to subsidize the downtown core." Give us some examples please.

I’m not sure I ever said Woodfield is doing poorly. I simply said that Woodfield-style malls are to passé for an average suburb and the streets of woodfield type thing is in.

As for examples of towns that rebuilt their downtowns while allowing redevelopment along highways, Champaign (where I went to school) comes to mind. The downtown was a total dump. The city was in no position to outright subsidize downtown so they allowed for all the development along Prospect and for a mall of Neil Street near the highway. The downtown was then TIFed and has experienced a tremendous rebirth, coincidentally, since the construction of the mall. Champaign is now a model for other downtstate towns as they are attempting to rebuilt their downtowns.

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Originally Posted by Chicago3rd View Post
Downtown Evanston redeveloped "dispite" these other stores. I never knew Evanston had diverted taxes from these stores to create downtown....please share with the room.
Evanston has allowed for the construction of several mega-strip malls conveniently along town borders with Skokie, Chicago, and Wilmette.

At the same time, Downtown Evanston is covered by several TIF districts (eg the old Sherman Garage was demolished under a TIF). If you are unaware of how TIFs work, they essentially divert future tax revenue from the city. The money has to come from somewhere, so as with most towns (besides Chicago which still refuses to acknowledge that TIFs divert money), the city council has to allow for future tax revenue from other sources. In the case of Evanston, the brand new Sam’s Club on the Skokie border.

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Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman View Post
Come on you are reaching here to stress your point that strip mall along dodge is dreadful.....it really is two separate demographics between that mall and DT evanston.....to imply that this mall is responsible for the resurgence of DT evanston is disingenous
It really isn’t. The same northwest students and yuppies that live downtown also shop at Target. It’s naïve to think if we simply didn’t allow for the Target to be constructed the students would simply shop at the downtown boutiques. The only rpactical solution is to allow for both. Sure we will be taking shopping away from downtown, but it wouldn't havebeen there anyway.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 6:02 PM
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Because you find something when you get there.



Let's just say that downtown Joliet is not meeting these new residents' needs, either for family-friendly places like Chili's and Applebee's or for white-tablecloth places to take a date. A taqueria with fluorescent lights humming over the Formica tables and mystery meat in the tortas might be an adventure for a single young urban-dweller, but it's not a suburban family's idea of fun. Could downtown Joliet be redeveloped like Naperville has been? Possibly. But Joliet is not exactly booming (in any category other than new houses in its far west reaches), nor is its downtown surrounded by high-income residents.
I was being facetious w/ the juxtaposition btw Joliet & Chi
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  #1220  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 6:19 PM
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Because you find something when you get there.



Let's just say that downtown Joliet is not meeting these new residents' needs, either for family-friendly places like Chili's and Applebee's or for white-tablecloth places to take a date. A might be an adventure for a single young urban-dweller, but it's not a suburban family's idea of fun. Could downtown Joliet be redeveloped like Naperville has been? Possibly. But Joliet is not exactly booming (in any category other than new houses in its far west reaches), nor is its downtown surrounded by high-income residents.
here is a partial list of dining options in Joliet.......

http://www.cityofjoliet.info/Dining/dining.htm

it is hardly devoid and simply the realm of "taqueria(s) with fluorescent lights humming over the Formica tables and mystery meat in the tortas"



for more on Joliet's city center: http://www.cityofjoliet.info/About-J...ity-Center.htm


Maybe I am wrong....but I just think this mall thing could spell doom for Joliet's DT
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