CHICAGO | General Developments

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

^^^ TUP has a point though, the building code and city red tape make it almost pointless to rehab old buildings. I am wrapping up a rehab of a beautiful old six flat with a corner turret right now and spent nearly $600k doing it. For that price I could have razed the old shell and built an all-new happy brick six flat. I'm glad I didn't because I wouldn't have been able to ever get the quality of brickwork, crazy architectural features, and 12' ceilings my old building has, but at the end of the day it's just depressing to have poured so much cash into a building that could have easily been sufficently rebuilt for half that cost if the city just let me use modern building materials and didn't decide I needed $25k in steel to replace the old spine beam or $18k in fire windows on a fire escape that has been there for 130 years, etc etc etc.

are the codes here an undue burden moreso than other cities, and if so why?

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Glad the Duck was saved but I still want that 1970s turd of a building its north to bite it in the worst way.

That was the plan actually IIRC. A developer used the threat of the Black Duck's demolition as leverage to get a zoning change for a taller building in place of the turd. The strategy didn't work; Ald. Michelle Smith basically told them they would never get their re-zoning under any circumstance. She is still very scarred after the Childrens Memorial debacle and lawsuit, unfortunately anybody who would challenge her is even more rabidly NIMBY.

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

are the codes here an undue burden moreso than other cities, and if so why?

Protectionism and over-reaction to perceived problems.

Many other cities, especially in the Sunbelt and the West, allow less expensive building systems like PEX water supply lines, PVC drain lines, non-metallic electrical lines (Romex), etc.

In reality, the restrictions exist because they help keep cheaper, less-skilled workers out. For example, electricians love metal conduit - it means they complete jobs more slowly, but it also means that regular joes can't start doing electrical work at a cheaper price and underbidding them. That lack of competition allows them to keep prices high.

Also, when tragedies happen, the city always over-reacts with new building codes. After the deadly porch collapse in 2003, the city tightened restrictions on porches and basically doubled the cost of construction. No doubt the many porch builders across the city were elated to hear that they could now charge twice as much....

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by ardecila

In reality, the restrictions exist because they help keep cheaper, less-skilled workers out. For example, electricians love metal conduit - it means they complete jobs more slowly, but it also means that regular joes can't start doing electrical work at a cheaper price and underbidding them. That lack of competition allows them to keep prices high.

but what incentive does the city have to encourage this? or is it simply the result of union lobbying?

[the urban politician]

^ There is no quicker way to leave the Democratic Party than to buy a couple of old Chicago buildings.

There's no other way to put it. You have to just experience how awful the Government is from a visceral, personal standpoint to get it. Otherwise, die hard and well-meaning "Government is the answer" types like yourself will never really appreciate what we are saying.

[Via Chicago]

sorry but im not voting trump.

also, everyone here seems to bow down before Rahm and were vigorous supporters of him during the last election, but it seems to me hes done nothing to streamline the permitting/code process and is fine with the status quo

[the urban politician]

^ LOL, not saying that. Earlier I was talking about zoning, not building codes, but LVDW is totally right. But even zoning just makes you mad. You are disallowed from adding living space to a building. It's ridiculous....old buildings need all the help they can get to financially buy a new life, and here come these 9-5 assholes who don't give a shit making it that much harder.

Let's not forget how much zoning plays a role here--building codes aside

[Vlajos]

Chicago is simply a union town. And we pay dearly for it. CTU will be striking in a few weeks very likely. Though there is no money and all that will happen if the union doesn't give is that there will be larger classrooms, more schools closed and less teachers.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

sorry but im not voting trump.

also, everyone here seems to bow down before Rahm and were vigorous supporters of him during the last election, but it seems to me hes done nothing to streamline the permitting/code process and is fine with the status quo

Who said anything about voting Trump?

Of course Rahm wouldn't propose such a thing, he enjoys strong union support. But neither would Chuy Garcia, Gery Chico, or anybody else. As a political issue, code and permitting reform doesn't get anybody riled up except developers and landlords, but most people hate developers and landlords.

It's very easy to make vague claims about how the building code keeps people safe, but it's difficult to convince people how the building code makes housing much less affordable and impairs the reuse of historic buildings. Considering the issue means essentially putting a value on human life, which people don't like to do.

The zoning code is a separate issue, and Rahm has actually done good work there by implementing and then expanding TOD zoning, expanding the downtown zoning area, and adding more flexibility to the affordable housing ordinance.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Of course I had to get a zoning change to retain the retail space in my building which had been there for 130 years. Hurray for the government protecting the people from my tyrany of leaving things exactly as they were!

Then after I got the zoning change I luckily was allowed to wait literally 365 days for the city to review and approve my plans. It's not like the city was simultaneously charging me $2000 every six months for the privilege of not coming and tearing my property down or something.

I mean you really have to appreciate all the city does for us when the buildings department just totally shuts down for like six months because the buildings commissioner doesn't like the guy jonesing for a deputy buildings commissioner post (after all he's willing to be pragmatic about interpreting the code, can't have that can we!) and decides to tell everyone he is taking bribes from developers. I mean makes sense right? Why else would a city employee actually do their job? Who could have seen that political infighting would bring the processing of permits grinding to a total halt for a few months? It's not like it matters anyhow, there aren't any people out there staking their livelihood on getting old properties redeveloped or anything.

Also, it's not like the city comes and demands improvements totally beyond the scope of the plans they reviewed and approved (I mean who expects them to actully read the plans, they only had a year) on a regular basis. It's just your friendly neighborhood building inspector, sticking it to the man on behalf of the little guy!

[Skyguy_7]

^LOL. I had to deal with an inspector just this week who, surprisingly, absolutely despises all this Government overreach that we've become so accustomed to. I let him go off on a 20-minute tangent about the parking meter deal and rising costs of water services, and he passed us!

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^LOL. I had to deal with an inspector just this week who, surprisingly, absolutely despises all this Government overreach that we've become so accustomed to. I let him go off on a 20-minute tangent about the parking meter deal and rising costs of water services, and he passed us!

Rather strange seeing as the water service taxes were increased to pay government worker pensions.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Rather strange seeing as the water service taxes were increased to pay government worker pensions.

Are you referring to the additional fees slapped on our water bills (hey everyone, now you need to pay $15/mo per unit to have the garbage picked up, I'm sure you won't pass this cost on to your tenants!)? I think Skyguy is referring to the out of control tap fees. Nothing like being told you must upgrade your service and that it will be at least $14,000.

In case you are wondering that's nearly $1000 per foot of water line. But you know, costs like that are super easy to stomach, particularly in the ghetto where you paid $20,000 for an old 2 flat. Why would anyone tear an old greystone down when the city forces you to make an improvement that costs as much as the building is worth?

[the urban politician]

^ Yeah, new water service just got ridiculously expensive.

Also, building inspectors should have some oversight. They should not be allowed to be the walking mini-dictators that they are now. It's silly that they can fail you despite the fact that your work is consistent with reviewed and stamped plans.

Problem is too much Government. There is no point in complaining to the Chicago City Council--you'll never fix this problem with more laws and more policies, which is all they know how to do and all they will ever propose. The more 9-5 employees (who absolutely don't care) you add to the process, the worse. The city simply needs to employ way less people.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ The solution is quite simple actually, just adopt the IBC like virtually every other major city on earth and toss the Chicago Building Code out the window. Then layoff half of the buildings department. Actually lay them all off and start totally fresh. There is a culture of unaccountability that permeates the city government and it is totally toxic. Maybe they learn it from the alderbeasties who don't have to answer to anyone, but unless you retain your local alderbeast to smack some skulls together, you will get nowhere with the city.

I've said it a million times, if Rahm actually wanted to jumpstart growth in Chicago and particularly our poorer neighborhoods, he would propose exactly what I said above. Total revamp of the building code eliminating all the bullshit union handouts and backassward laws that require you to use hundreds of years old technology over brand new building products that will likely last thousands of years if well maintained. Like how anyone can argue for cast iron over PVC is beyond me. I see what 100 year old cast iron looks like on a daily basis and it's usually bubbling with rust. Today's PVC should last virtually forever and supply lines made out of Pex should do the same. Why are we filling our city with outdated technology that will fail much sooner than the alternative? Why are we using materials that appeal to scrapers and encourage them to trash vacant buildings? There is literally no logic at play here besides "let's mandate the most time consuming methods possible so the union workers get extra hours".

If you replaced the CBC with the IBC I am willing to bet construction costs, particularly on rehabs, would be halved overnight. You would suddenly see many more neighborhoods where gut rehabs make sense and you would see a proliferation of affordable, well maintained, middle class housing in those areas. You would see places like Garfield Park, Washington Park, Little Village, be totally renovated overnight as they are on the cusp of where rehabilition makes sense. You might even see it spread into the likes of Austin, Englewood, Lawndale, etc. But given the current laws, you would have to be insane to pour six figures into a two flat in those areas. Unless you can do the work illegally, there's no reason to even try to repair a building in those neighborhoods right now.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Who said anything about voting Trump?

Of course Rahm wouldn't propose such a thing, he enjoys strong union support. But neither would Chuy Garcia, Gery Chico, or anybody else. As a political issue, code and permitting reform doesn't get anybody riled up except developers and landlords, but most people hate developers and landlords.

It's very easy to make vague claims about how the building code keeps people safe, but it's difficult to convince people how the building code makes housing much less affordable and impairs the reuse of historic buildings. Considering the issue means essentially putting a value on human life, which people don't like to do.

The zoning code is a separate issue, and Rahm has actually done good work there by implementing and then expanding TOD zoning, expanding the downtown zoning area, and adding more flexibility to the affordable housing ordinance.

Yea, I'm thinking that nobody is going to be campaigning in the next mayoral election to make developer's lives easier even if it has the effect of helping to preserve historic building stock.

When it comes to zoning the aldermen are only going to give up just so much control. The system as is benefits them greatly. Until the city council is reformed (shrank) I don't see that changing. I never actually thought we'd have TOD, be able to simply buy FAR, and a transit TIF among other things. The mayor should get at least a modest amount of credit for those few feats

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Yeah, new water service just got ridiculously expensive.

Also, building inspectors should have some oversight. They should not be allowed to be the walking mini-dictators that they are now. It's silly that they can fail you despite the fact that your work is consistent with reviewed and stamped plans.

Problem is too much Government. There is no point in complaining to the Chicago City Council--you'll never fix this problem with more laws and more policies, which is all they know how to do and all they will ever propose. The more 9-5 employees (who absolutely don't care) you add to the process, the worse. The city simply needs to employ way less people.

Stop with the big government garbage please. While things could be better balanced, I'm betting that you're glad regulations keep the water clean.

[the urban politician]

^ What does clean water have to do with excess red tape? Also, if that is your point of view then stop complaining about Aldermanic control over zoning.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Even Helmut Jahn is jumping on the bandwagon and moving his firm to a part of the city forever doomed to not be part of downtown:

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016...lers-auto-body

There is never any reason why companies should locate in the West Loop. I'm sure they will all change their minds in a few years and say "on second thought, let's not relocate to West Loop, tis a silly place"... /S

[ithakas]

After 10 years, Citizen Bar is closing in River North, as co-owner Danny McCambridge said its last night will be on Sunday. The bar, which maintained an every-man atmosphere, drew crowds due to a unique rooftop. But developers threatened that view with their plans to construct seven-story condo buildings on both sides of the bar.

http://chicago.eater.com/2016/9/28/1...-north-rooftop

I know the project next to Green Door Tavern is under construction, but have we seen anything for these?

[emathias]

I will say that cast iron is much quieter than pvc. I'm always annoyed in newer buildings when you can hear the water flowing after toilet flushes. I know there are ways around that, and it's probably not worth *requiring* iron for, but it is one advantage.