Glendale/West Valley Development Thread

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

This is so far off in the future guys...think 30 years. No way this builds out any faster than that.

If the metro area is going to double in size again over the next 30 years - as MAG projections show it over 8M by 2050, then areas like this will emerge.

This is just north of Bill Gate’s investment in Belmont - so could be interesting to see how it evolves over time...

I want to know what kind of water rights go along with this land. Can’t be Colorado River water...

We still have a hundreds of miles of undeveloped land on this side of the White Tanks that projects like this should be going first before they ever think about developing this far out into open desert. Also, the Phoenix Metro can sustain well more than 8 million in the land we already have. There should be more focus on urban density, not gobbling up more land.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

We still have a hundreds of miles of undeveloped land on this side of the White Tanks that projects like this should be going first before they ever think about developing this far out into open desert. Also, the Phoenix Metro can sustain well more than 8 million in the land we already have. There should be more focus on urban density, not gobbling up more land.

Oh - that'll get filled in too.

However the West Valley is planning around Luke AFB so it isn't encroached on. This is partly what's shifting development out west.

From my perspective living in the north valley - new developments in Pinal County are equally as 'nutty'. But I do understand the economics that are driving this - cheap land, cheap homes - they'll sell like mad. With big time employers - i.e. Microsoft itself - setting up shop 20 min commute away in Goodyear - why not?

Phoenix will never have the urban density of any east coast town - likely not even LA - there's simply zero geographic barrier forcing it. The only thing really driving how far we spread out is water rights - of which this development has more than enough for almost 500k residents.

So, why not? I'm sure Collangelo and Gates himself did their homework.

[Mr.RE]

A statistic I heard recently is Maricopa County only has about 7 years of growth left in it at its current pace before its landlocked with other surrounding counties which would force vertical construction unless agreements are made with other counties for expansion. Considering we added the most people in net migration in the last 5 years (around 250k) id say we are getting closer to full capacity.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

This is so far off in the future guys...think 30 years. No way this builds out any faster than that.

If the metro area is going to double in size again over the next 30 years - as MAG projections show it over 8M by 2050, then areas like this will emerge.

This is just north of Bill Gate’s investment in Belmont - so could be interesting to see how it evolves over time...

I want to know what kind of water rights go along with this land. Can’t be Colorado River water...

Yeah it is the Hassayampa flows into the Gila then the Colorado

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

A statistic I heard recently is Maricopa County only has about 7 years of growth left in it at its current pace before its landlocked with other surrounding counties which would force vertical construction unless agreements are made with other counties for expansion. Considering we added the most people in net migration in the last 5 years (around 250k) id say we are getting closer to full capacity.

Its already a lot more landlocked than people think between state/federal land and Indian reservations

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Yeah it is the Hassayampa flows into the Gila then the Colorado

The head waters of the Hassyampa River are in the mountains just south of Prescott. Its dry 95% of the time - so it acts more or less as a wash during storms and during the spring snow melt (if they get enough snow). Its not a water source for anything.

Reading the website - they have almost 50k sq acre feet of water - which is technically enough for 500k people - but are planning for 300k (likely due to all the water features and waterfront they are planning). The water is assured by the state - delivered by City of Buckeye.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

A statistic I heard recently is Maricopa County only has about 7 years of growth left in it at its current pace before its landlocked with other surrounding counties which would force vertical construction unless agreements are made with other counties for expansion. Considering we added the most people in net migration in the last 5 years (around 250k) id say we are getting closer to full capacity.

I call BS on this -The county has tons of extra space. The entire area west of the White Tanks from Wickenberg to Gila Bend is wide open. Yes, state land - but almost zero Indian reservation and maybe a little federal land. This is exactly why the Hassaymapa River Valley is primed for growth - add in I-11 corridor and these two projects and there you go. It won’t be completed in 7 years by any stretch of the imagination. They’re on the 25-30 year build out plan.

Besides - growth of the metro into Pinal County has not forced vertical development in Maricopa County.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

I call BS on this -The county has tons of extra space. The entire area west of the White Tanks from Wickenberg to Gila Bend is wide open. Yes, state land - but almost zero Indian reservation and maybe a little federal land. This is exactly why the Hassaymapa River Valley is primed for growth - add in I-11 corridor and these two projects and there you go. It won’t be completed in 7 years by any stretch of the imagination. They’re on the 25-30 year build out plan.

Besides - growth of the metro into Pinal County has not forced vertical development in Maricopa County.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hassayampe river area become our equivalent of the inland empire.

Somewhat associated with Phoenix but generally its own independent set of cities.

The other areas that will get a lot of suburban sprawl in coming decades I/93 up to wikenburg, Far north Valley around lake Pleasant and the far southeast valley between Gateway airport and Gold Canyon which is all ope flat desert land.

Also Prescott/Prescott Valley is going to get quite full

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hassayampe river area become our equivalent of the inland empire.

Somewhat associated with Phoenix but generally its own independent set of cities.

The other areas that will get a lot of suburban sprawl in coming decades I/93 up to wikenburg, Far north Valley around lake Pleasant and the far southeast valley between Gateway airport and Gold Canyon which is all ope flat desert land.

Also Prescott/Prescott Valley is going to get quite full

Its filling in now - glad they are expanding the airport. Predictions for that area is about 800k residents - almost the size of ABQ. There is a stretch of available land up I-17 to Cordes Junction that can fill in along the way. The Prescott area is to be the northern most extent of the ‘Sun Corridor’ megapolitan area.

I can also see growth heading out west down I-10 past 2050 - but like I said before - a lot of that depends on water rights. As does the growth outside of Vegas in AZ along US-93/future I-11.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

Its filling in now - glad they are expanding the airport. Predictions for that area is about 800k residents - almost the size of ABQ. There is a stretch of available land up I-17 to Cordes Junction that can fill in along the way. The Prescott area is to be the northern most extent of the ‘Sun Corridor’ megapolitan area.

I can also see growth heading out west down I-10 past 2050 - but like I said before - a lot of that depends on water rights. As does the growth outside of Vegas in AZ along US-93/future I-11.

Might as well include Flag and Sedona then too

[ASU Diablo]

This is pretty cool...

https://ktar.com/story/2435311/phoen...ricane-harbor/

[Obadno]

Nice blue collar manufacturing plant coming to the west valley:

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...ture-west.html

Cives Corp. has bought 25 acres of land in the CenterPoint Logistics Park in El Mirage and plans to build the company’s eighth U.S. steel manufacturing facility in the West Valley city.

Georgia-based Cives bought the land for $3.66 million from John F. Long Properties and Novo Development LLC in Scottsdale. The parcel is part of the 1,400-acre business park, which was designed to contain more than 25 million square feet of industrial, warehouse and manufacturing space at buildout. The park spans from Peoria Avenue on the north to the Northern Parkway on the south and from Dysart Road to the west to El Mirage Road to the east.

The steel plant will be built in two phases. The first phase will be a 50,000-square-foot prefabrication facility that will employ 50 people, and the second will be a 100,000-square-foot facility with 150 additional workers.

“In our time marketing the park, we have gained significant momentum that currently includes 200 acres in negotiation for future development," Justin Miller of Novo Development said in a statement. "The support of the city of El Mirage, the existing skilled labor force and our ability to deliver services to sites have been instrumental in our success.”

Cives Steel specializes in structural steel and plate fabrication, and the El Mirage facility will focus on products serving the Southwest.

“The El Mirage location was chosen in large part due to the welcome received from the mayor, city council and city staff and their working relationship with the Long family,” Tim Hanenburg, Cives’ president and CEO, said in a statement.

The CenterPoint Business Park has available sites ranging from one acre to 500 acres. Pat Feeney, Dan Calihan and Rusty Kennedy of CBRE serve as exclusive sales agents for the park.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

This is pretty cool...

https://ktar.com/story/2435311/phoen...ricane-harbor/

Hmmmm, there’s a lot of land around there, maybe they could buy those baseball fields and golf courses and build an actual Six Flags? Not a bad place for it, a little cooler up there, cools off pretty fast at night on the other side of those hills.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Hmmmm, there’s a lot of land around there, maybe they could buy those baseball fields and golf courses and build an actual Six Flags? Not a bad place for it, a little cooler up there, cools off pretty fast at night on the other side of those hills.

I thought about that when I was hiking Thunderbird the other day. Plenty of space for expansion and I would not put it past Six Flags to consider something such as this. Phoenix is starved for an amusement park and has the population to support it.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I thought about that when I was hiking Thunderbird the other day. Plenty of space for expansion and I would not put it past Six Flags to consider something such as this. Phoenix is starved for an amusement park and has the population to support it.

Actually we don't.

I asked this question when I was at Universal Studios Theme Park corporate for a work related visit. They said that Phoenix isn't quite where it needs to be to support it. You need at least 5 million visitors per year to support a sizable amusement/theme park these days. So that means more or less everyone in town would need to visit a Six Flags every year at least once. Which isn't very likely.

What we could see happening here is them expanding the water park with more water rides - by a bit.

Personally - I wish the park had stayed in private hands. It looks like not only are prices going up - but now there's tons of new BS like, 5 different tiers of season pass holders, 3 different tiers of parking and new 'skip the line' tickets. It sounds to me like its going to ruin what was otherwise a fun park to be at.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

Actually we don't.

I asked this question when I was at Universal Studios Theme Park corporate for a work related visit. They said that Phoenix isn't quite where it needs to be to support it. You need at least 5 million visitors per year to support a sizable amusement/theme park these days. So that means more or less everyone in town would need to visit a Six Flags every year at least once. Which isn't very likely.

What we could see happening here is them expanding the water park with more water rides - by a bit.

Personally - I wish the park had stayed in private hands. It looks like not only are prices going up - but now there's tons of new BS like, 5 different tiers of season pass holders, 3 different tiers of parking and new 'skip the line' tickets. It sounds to me like its going to ruin what was otherwise a fun park to be at.

•The city of Phoenix hosted nearly 44 million visitors in 2017

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by Obadno

•The city of Phoenix hosted nearly 44 million visitors in 2017

Also, while I wouldn't go as far to say that a new Six Flags would bring people in from all over the country, having something of that caliber in the valley would no doubt lead to a bump in tourism.

By comparison, only 3.6 million people attended Ohio's Cedar Point in 2016.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

Actually we don't.

I asked this question when I was at Universal Studios Theme Park corporate for a work related visit. They said that Phoenix isn't quite where it needs to be to support it. You need at least 5 million visitors per year to support a sizable amusement/theme park these days. So that means more or less everyone in town would need to visit a Six Flags every year at least once. Which isn't very likely.

What we could see happening here is them expanding the water park with more water rides - by a bit.

Personally - I wish the park had stayed in private hands. It looks like not only are prices going up - but now there's tons of new BS like, 5 different tiers of season pass holders, 3 different tiers of parking and new 'skip the line' tickets. It sounds to me like its going to ruin what was otherwise a fun park to be at.

Universal is quite a different park compared to Six Flags. Louisville supported a Six Flags with Kings Island only a 70 minute drive away in the middle of a 3.1 million metro area (including Dayton). New Orleans had a Six Flags before the hurricane destroyed it. Kansas City has it's own park. Salt Lake City even has a small amusement park. Not as big as Six Flags, but it's large enough with some decent rides. Phoenix can support a Six Flags.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by xymox

Its filling in now - glad they are expanding the airport. Predictions for that area is about 800k residents - almost the size of ABQ. There is a stretch of available land up I-17 to Cordes Junction that can fill in along the way. The Prescott area is to be the northern most extent of the ‘Sun Corridor’ megapolitan area.

I can also see growth heading out west down I-10 past 2050 - but like I said before - a lot of that depends on water rights. As does the growth outside of Vegas in AZ along US-93/future I-11.

You were definitely talking to the wrong people. Universal has two theme parks in the whole country in destinations people go strictly for the theme parks. San Antonio and shoot OKC has a Six Flags. Denver has a pretty awesome theme park right next to their downtown and the Denver metro has a lot less people than our metro. I remember when I was 12 years old and my parents and I vacationed in San Antonio cause I had heard of the River Walk and the Alamo from watching basketball in the mid ‘90s and after hearing they had a Sea World and Six Flags we were sold. When people vacation, if the city has a theme park, that plays a big roll. Phoenix is definitely missing out on some tourism by not having a theme park. And it’s just an idea, this probably isn’t the best spot for a theme park and will probably get opposition from the neighborhood, I think by Talking Stick Resort Casino in Native Land would prob be best. I was also seeing that Six Flags is building multiple Theme Parks in China so they must be investing pretty heavy.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Universal is quite a different park compared to Six Flags. Louisville supported a Six Flags with Kings Island only a 70 minute drive away in the middle of a 3.1 million metro area (including Dayton). New Orleans had a Six Flags before the hurricane destroyed it. Kansas City has it's own park. Salt Lake City even has a small amusement park. Not as big as Six Flags, but it's large enough with some decent rides. Phoenix can support a Six Flags.

Including Dayton? The 3.1 Mil must be Cincinnati and Dayon, OH, not Louisville, KY.