PHILADELPHIA | The Arbour House @ 708 Sansom | 414 FT | 35 FLOORS

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Larry King

And new apartments/restaurants in the curtis center.

When is that actually opening? Ever? That PJ Clarke's announcement was 2 years ago...Maybe something is happening on the inside but I have not noticed it.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by Londonee

When is that actually opening? Ever? That PJ Clarke's announcement was 2 years ago...Maybe something is happening on the inside but I have not noticed it.

I think the apartments are open. The restaurant has had significant delays but supposedly is still happening. I think the vibrations from construction damaged the 'dream garden' painting in the lobby and that may have held things up a bit.

[ebuilder]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

The Saint James was the only tower East of the “Broad Street Divide” to reach the sky.
This is yet another example of a missed opportunity.

it's about demand and available sites. Until recently new residential development east of broad wasn't all that common, especially when talking about anything beyond midrise or rehab projects. How many ground up high rise residential projects went up between St. James and the recent stuff like 1213 Walnut? Not many

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

This tower reminds me of New York but its short; I don't know why but it does.

It looks very much like Time Warner to me.


Source: Glassdoor.com

[iheartphilly]

The crown of the Toll Bros highrise on Jewelers Row is probably the best feature. Different than anything that we got at the moment.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

The City does have those tools, and I don't believe Toll actually wanted to build taller. I think they determined this number of units meets current demand. I suppose they could have built a taller, slimmer tower. But I don't think there's anything that would have gotten them to build an attractive one.

Tools? How so? So you think Toll cut the height and number of units just as a matter of responding to market conditions? If Toll, or whoever, is not requesting a variance, meaning the proposed building fits within the areas zoning and meets the building and other codes, I don't know how the City can approach a private party a suggest a deal. As much as I would like something in this case such a "tool" would be open to great misuse and favoritism. I guess the City through one of its departments could approach Toll and let it be known that the City would look positively on a request for a variance if Toll would do X Y and Z.

The civic design review is suppose to address points having to do with how a building looks and works, but we all know how toothless that process is. Toothless to the point of being meaningless.

[nemesisinphilly]

The city has enough "tools" like councilmanic prerogative to disrupt and obstruct development. I'd rather not have them interfere in by right projects as well.

[ebuilder]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Tools? How so? So you think Toll cut the height and number of units just as a matter of responding to market conditions? If Toll, or whoever, is not requesting a variance, meaning the proposed building fits within the areas zoning and meets the building and other codes, I don't know how the City can approach a private party a suggest a deal. As much as I would like something in this case such a "tool" would be open to great misuse and favoritism. I guess the City through one of its departments could approach Toll and let it be known that the City would look positively on a request for a variance if Toll would do X Y and Z.

The civic design review is suppose to address points having to do with how a building looks and works, but we all know how toothless that process is. Toothless to the point of being meaningless.

In what fair and transparent way could the CDR be give actual veto power over projects? I can't think of any. Not sure when people came up with the idea that people (no matter how few) should be able to stop buildings they don't personally like from being constructed. Zoning codes and building regulations are the "teeth" that guide development. The CDR process is just an opportunity for the City and developers to possibly improve planned product for the public good. I would say in general the fact that the information is so public and so widely covered has made developers and architects try a bit harder. But giving 5 people on a panel the power to stymie development based on their personal whims is a bad idea and ripe for abuse. There are architects on the panel- should they really be empowered to shut down projects designed by competitors? If the CDR had the power to demand expensive changes that could lead to stalled or cancelled projects would that be considered a victory?

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by ebuilder

In what fair and transparent way could the CDR be give actual veto power over projects? I can't think of any. Not sure when people came up with the idea that people (no matter how few) should be able to stop buildings they don't personally like from being constructed. Zoning codes and building regulations are the "teeth" that guide development. The CDR process is just an opportunity for the City and developers to possibly improve planned product for the public good. I would say in general the fact that the information is so public and so widely covered has made developers and architects try a bit harder. But giving 5 people on a panel the power to stymie development based on their personal whims is a bad idea and ripe for abuse. There are architects on the panel- should they really be empowered to shut down projects designed by competitors? If the CDR had the power to demand expensive changes that could lead to stalled or cancelled projects would that be considered a victory?

I've got no answer and doubt that there is a perfect one, and your points about the present panelists are valid. I doubt that the present CDR process is nothing more then just a very small speed bump for developers and as they learn how to game the process I expect the CDR to become even more meaningless. I don't know how it would work but when a project needs a variance, that is a chance for the City to exercise some control, control in many different areas. But it could also be a time where that control is abused. I hope the City keeps trying to find a way to encourage a better quality of building. If one method doesn't work, then try something else. In general gov't needs to find ways of being more fluid.

[TechTalkGuy]

That sounds like you are describing the dictatorship of an individual who had too much control over city development. An individual named Ed Bacon.

It took a brash developer by the name of Willard G. Rouse III to challenge the corruption to allow skyscrapers in the city of Philadelphia, affecting the entire commonwealth.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

That sounds like you are describing the dictatorship of an individual who had too much control over city development. An individual named Ed Bacon.

It took a brash developer by the name of Willard G. Rouse III to challenge the corruption to allow skyscrapers in the city of Philadelphia, affecting the entire commonwealth.

This Ed Bacon sounds like villainous scoundrel and this Willard G. Rouse sounds like a dashing hero. I've never heard such a tale. Could you share more?

[ebuilder]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I've got no answer and doubt that there is a perfect one, and your points about the present panelists are valid. I doubt that the present CDR process is nothing more then just a very small speed bump for developers and as they learn how to game the process I expect the CDR to become even more meaningless. I don't know how it would work but when a project needs a variance, that is a chance for the City to exercise some control, control in many different areas. But it could also be a time where that control is abused. I hope the City keeps trying to find a way to encourage a better quality of building. If one method doesn't work, then try something else. In general gov't needs to find ways of being more fluid.

Many seem to believe that the government has the right or obligation to tightly control how every new building looks. I don't think that is the case. When dealing with budgetary issues, neighborhood group issues, site constraints, economics, etc there are a lot of things that affect how tall a building is going to be or how it's laid out. What happens in a case where the immediate neighbors push for something that hard core urban design folks hate? Who should win that battle? Concessions in design are made for a host of reasons, it's not always about a developer or architect not caring about a building's surroundings. At no point in time has everyone liked or approved of every building that has gone up in this city. 60 years ago they wanted to tear down City hall because it's architectural style was so obsolete and it's design made the building inefficient. In fact, many were critics of the building shortly after it was completed. Back then folks were asking "how did anyone let the City build this monstrosity?" Now it's a registered landmark and prominently featured as a symbol of the City.

[JohnIII]

Originally Posted by PHL10

It looks very much like Time Warner to me.


Source: Glassdoor.com

That's the building I was thinking of near Columbus Circle. I've eaten at the Mandarin Oriental a few times; it has great views of Central Park.

702 Can have the very same affect on Washington Square and Independence Mall if they make the tower tall enough. If they make the tower 400 - 600' they can add more units as well as a Boutique Hotel at the top. There is potential for much more in this tower.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

That's the building I was thinking of near Columbus Circle. I've eaten at the Mandarin Oriental a few times; it has great views of Central Park.

702 Can have the very same affect on Washington Square and Independence Mall if they make the tower tall enough. If they make the tower 400 - 600' they can add more units as well as a Boutique Hotel at the top. There is potential for much more in this tower.

They could, but hotels are hard to accomplish in the Philly market, and the Public Ledger Building across the street looks to be getting one (it is definitely getting condo or apartment units, and hotel was in the original plan). And I think this is by right now, so they are not going to mess around with requiring a variance on this very controversial project.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by allovertown

This Ed Bacon sounds like villainous scoundrel and this Willard G. Rouse sounds like a dashing hero. I've never heard such a tale. Could you share more?

Ed Bacon was a dark lord of the Sith.
He was so powerful and so wise, he could prevent skyscrapers from being built in his hometown.

Legend has it that his statue was being built to replace the statue of William Penn atop of Philadelphia City Hall. His secret plan was called the Death Star. It had the power to destroy an entire skyscraper from a single blast.

Bacon’s attempt to rename City Hall as his Sith Temple failed when a dashing Jedi named Willard G. Rouse the Third came into town.

A light saber battle took place between the two.
It was a public display of passage for Rouse, who eventually defeated the evil Sith Lord to usher in skyscrapers into the City of Philadelphia.

Jedi Master Rouse the Third died from smoking Death Sticks.
The End.

[Philly Fan]

Nice. ^ ^ ^

But you forgot the whole chapter on Sir Kevin:

[Knight Hospitaller]

"Jewelers' Row tower needs more work, city board says"

http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/...ity-board-says

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

"Jewelers' Row tower needs more work, city board says"

http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/...ity-board-says

No shit it does. Such a lazy project. Not optimistic that Toll will go to much effort to design a better building, though. Any improvements in response to CDR are likely to be marginal.

[summersm343]

CDR Re-submission:

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/pr...%20Webpage.pdf

[ebuilder]

Can anyone tell if anything has been changed? They don't outline any specific changes in response to the first hearing. It seems that the top of the tower has been updated.