Bank Street Subway | Fantasy

[Clinton Desveaux]

Here is the article with the full interviews of people speaking in favour of the Bank Street O-Train Tunnel:

https://clintondesveaux.medium.com/o...l-f95a3116bb85

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

If I was the king, I would convert the whole Colonel By Driveway into a transitway linking the Hog's Back area, UCarleton, TD place (with a pedestrian overpass/underpass), U of O and Rideau Centre. It would be a giant improvement for urban transit that would cost very little, but we can forget about that because of the NCC.

I love it.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I love it.

Now if I WAS King I would do the same but it would be grass lined tramway. No cars on Colonel By, only park, path and tram.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Here's a massive version of the same fantasy image. For further details, I suggest contacting it's author, Antoine Sauvé, who posts over at https://www.railfans.ca.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Now if I WAS King I would do the same but it would be grass lined tramway. No cars on Colonel By, only park, path and tram.

We would face the same issue Calgary has however. "LRT paralyzed for 2 hours during rush hour because of collision involving a pedestrian".

I still believe that the Bank subway is worth studying since it might be needed eventually, but it's not going to be built anytime soon.

[Brannwagon]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

I still believe that the Bank subway is worth studying since it might be needed eventually, but it's not going to be built anytime soon.

We should study it soon so that maybe it can be built when we actually need it, rather than 2-3+ decades too late. But maybe that’s wishful thinking.

Regardless, something needs to be done in the interim to help transit along Bank St. Anyone who commutes on routes 6 or 7 can tell you that it’s hell. My old 25km, 45 minute commute from Kanata to downtown, where my bus was at least moving the whole time, was almost more desirable than my 4km commute from Old Ottawa South up Bank St, which takes 35 min at peak and is mostly spent sitting idle.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

We would face the same issue Calgary has however. "LRT paralyzed for 2 hours during rush hour because of collision involving a pedestrian".

Sure, but it's such a rare occurrence that it doesn't really count as a good argument against surface transit. Having lived in Montreal for a while, I can tell you that even grade-separated systems aren't immune from delays caused by, erm, "interactions with persons on the tracks".

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by Brannwagon

We should study it soon so that maybe it can be built when we actually need it, rather than 2-3+ decades too late. But maybe that’s wishful thinking.

That is a very good point - a sign of good leadership is to speak with community members now throughout Ottawa South and the various Bank Street communities, speak with engineering & construction organizations to understand if it's doable and so on.

Doing these steps and inviting the public to take part ensures when the time is right it won't be delayed because of poor planning that should have happened in the past. It's also important to remember that Ottawa Gatineau's population is heading toward 1.8 million by 2029/2031.

As the Gatineau rail system happens, how will that work with existing Bank Street population and sports & entertainment events?

The planning really needs to start now.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

But where are we going to find $10-15 billions ?

We were able to get about $3.4B so far within 10 years, and we may very well get another $5B for Stage 3 within 5 years. Why would it not be realistic to expect another $10B-$15B over the following 20-30 years?

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The Feds and Queen's Park aren't going to agree if they were only willing to fund about half of the $4.6B for stage 2.

The GTA has been getting 100% funding for years, and the trend has been picked-up in Quebec with lines in Quebec City, Montreal and Gatineau projected to be 100% funded by upper levels as well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Brannwagon

We should study it soon so that maybe it can be built when we actually need it, rather than 2-3+ decades too late. But maybe that’s wishful thinking.

Regardless, something needs to be done in the interim to help transit along Bank St. Anyone who commutes on routes 6 or 7 can tell you that it’s hell. My old 25km, 45 minute commute from Kanata to downtown, where my bus was at least moving the whole time, was almost more desirable than my 4km commute from Old Ottawa South up Bank St, which takes 35 min at peak and is mostly spent sitting idle.

My partner and I were having dinner on Elgin Sunday. Very little traffic in the city. We see one articulated bus go by, packed! A few seconds later, another articulated, nearly empty. Even with the absolute best conditions, bus service in the urban core is still completely unpredictable.

This is pretty standard everywhere in the urban core. Pre-Covid, we would walk Bank and see 3-4 buses, same route, following one another. Same with Vanier, where the 15 minute bus comes in "platoons", to quote Uhuniau, after 45-60 minutes.

The reason ridership is relatively low along this fantasy Line 5 is that transit is so unreliable that it's easier and faster to just walk. Density along Bank and Rideau, and at a lesser extent Montreal road, is comparable to some TO neighbourhoods served by subways. In 20 years, the same will be true for Carling based on recent proposals.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The reason ridership is relatively low along this fantasy Line 5 is that transit is so unreliable that it's easier and faster to just walk. Density along Bank and Rideau, and at a lesser extent Montreal road, is comparable to some TO neighbourhoods served by subways. In 20 years, the same will be true for Carling based on recent proposals.

No way would Bank be able to generate the same ridership Toronto's subways can. For one thing, Toronto has a fairly effective feeder system connecting much of the city via bus to the subway network. For another, the Subway is fed at Union by the Go Network and at the far edges by the bus networks of other cities.

While unpalatable ATM, cutting off N-S vehicular traffic past the Rideau River and running a streetcar-like LRT in the middle, with wider sidewalks and bike lanes alongside would save the city a ton of money with an impactful improvement for transit on the corridor.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by silvergate

No way would Bank be able to generate the same ridership Toronto's subways can. For one thing, Toronto has a fairly effective feeder system connecting much of the city via bus to the subway network. For another, the Subway is fed at Union by the Go Network and at the far edges by the bus networks of other cities.

While unpalatable ATM, cutting off N-S vehicular traffic past the Rideau River and running a streetcar-like LRT in the middle, with wider sidewalks and bike lanes alongside would save the city a ton of money with an impactful improvement for transit on the corridor.

I'm not suggesting that a Bank subway would be able to generate anywhere near the same ridership as the TTC subway, or even that we should build a TTC subway type system. I would imagine something more akin to Vancouver's Skytrain (Broadway subway or Canada Line).

[Brannwagon]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm not suggesting that a Bank subway would be able to generate anywhere near the same ridership as the TTC subway, or even that we should build a TTC subway type system. I would imagine something more akin to Vancouver's Skytrain (Broadway subway or Canada Line).

I’ve always assumed “Bank St. subway” to mean something similar to, or exactly the same as, the downtown tunnel portion of Line 1 (i.e. underground, low floor LRVs). I agree that a heavy rail metro line would be overkill. I also wouldn’t be against surface LRT but Glebe NIMBYism and the temporary impact on businesses would make that unpalatable.

[JHikka]

From OCCheetos at UT. It's a few years old and predates this thread IIRC.



https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread....28872/page-86

[OCCheetos]

Posted here too (in some form) a couple of years ago!
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...26#post8160805

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Posted here too (in some form) a couple of years ago!
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...26#post8160805

Makes sense! I recognize the fuller scale one but don't recall seeing the line-specific diagram before. It's very nice.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Brannwagon

I’ve always assumed “Bank St. subway” to mean something similar to, or exactly the same as, the downtown tunnel portion of Line 1 (i.e. underground, low floor LRVs). I agree that a heavy rail metro line would be overkill. I also wouldn’t be against surface LRT but Glebe NIMBYism and the temporary impact on businesses would make that unpalatable.

The low floor LRTs made sense for a long, suburban centric line with steeper hills to go up and down, sharper turns and more seats, but a Bank (and/or Rideau/Montreal) subway would benefit from high-floor models that offer more configuration options thanks to a large, flat floor areas. We could also build shorter platforms since these vehicles offer more capacity per meter.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The low floor LRTs made sense for a long, suburban centric line with steeper hills to go up and down, sharper turns and more seats, but a Bank (and/or Rideau/Montreal) subway would benefit from high-floor models that offer more configuration options thanks to a large, flat floor areas. We could also build shorter platforms since these vehicles offer more capacity per meter.

Low floors make sense if boarding is directly from the sidewalk. It never made sense in any of Ottawa’s projects, none of which have sidewalk boarding.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Low floors make sense if boarding is directly from the sidewalk. It never made sense in any of Ottawa’s projects, none of which have sidewalk boarding.

We'll say "one could argue", but ultimately, I agree low-floor was not a good choice. Skytrain or REM technology would have been better adapted for what the Confederation Line ultimately is, which is a light-metro.

[Clinton Desveaux]

Well I hope you have enjoyed part 1 & 2 of my Bank Street O-Train Tunnel 5 Part Series.

Part 1: the idea
Part 2: community political support

Upcoming Parts

Part 3: station locations, Ottawa Gatineau pop forecast and Ottawa South

Part 4: construction/engineering & tunnel depth, vehicle emission particulate matter, safety, congestion, and noise

Part 5: community businesses & groups and tourism