Is Arizona the new Texas?

[Pedestrian]

Intel is spending $20 billion to build two new chip plants in Arizona
PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 23 2021
Kif Leswing

Intel announced on Tuesday that it will spend $20 billion to build two major factories in Arizona.

The news comes amid a worldwide chip shortage that is snarling industries from automobiles to electronics and worries the U.S. is falling behind in semiconductor manufacturing.

https://www.cnbc.com/

Phoenix okays development deal with TSMC for $12 billion chip factory
By Stephen Nellis
Nov 18, 2020

(Reuters) - City officials in Phoenix, Arizona on Wednesday unanimously voted to authorize a development agreement with chipmaker Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co that would provide $205 million in city funds for infrastructure such as roads and water improvements for a planned $12 billion semiconductor factory in the city.

TSMC is the world’s biggest contract chipmaker and manufactures semiconductors for Apple Inc, Qualcomm Inc and a range of other technology companies. The company in May disclosed its intentions to build a 5-nanometer chip factory in Arizona, which would be its first advanced manufacturing facility in the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN27Y30E

Could Phoenix land another massive semiconductor plant? Samsung seeks home for $17B factory
Russ Wiles
Arizona Republic
Feb 8, 2021

The technology sector of metro Phoenix could get a major boost if Samsung Electronics decides to locate a $17 billion semiconductor plant here.

The South Korean maker of cellphones, computers, televisions, appliances and more is considering sites in the Valley as well as Texas, upstate New York and Korea for the chip factory and its planned 1,800 high-paying jobs. The company hasn't made a decision, though some press reports indicate the Austin area, where Samsung already has operations, might have the edge.

The metro Phoenix sites under consideration are located in Goodyear and Queen Creek, according to media reports.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...nt/4435424001/

[sloppy toppy]

No. Arizona and Texas are both the new Colorado.

[James Bond Agent 007]

It is 100% insane to have so much development in a desert.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It is 100% insane to have so much development in a desert.

1. AZ has abundant solar and, potentially, wind energy (I believe making chips is pretty energy intensive).

2. While much of the state is desert (not all), it has decent underground aquifers and it has a share of Colorado River water which is of such low quality that in Tucson where I am they don't put it in peoples' pipes, they pump it into the ground to replenish the aquifer. Underground apparently Mother Nature cleans it up. But I bet it could be used for chip-making.

Anyway, I wonder how much water making chips uses vs Arizona's traditional industries like mining which are very water intensive and what's worse, the retention ponds of used water at mine sites pollute the underground water supplies.


https://www.google.com/search?rls=en...V_PWdngLLBjUlM

[JManc]

I'd like to see that Samsung chip plant in Upstate NY. The county they are looking at is really depressed.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Who knows? Water and climate change are always going to be issues. Unchecked growth out along the fringes of The Valley isn't sustainable although the development in Central and Midtown Phoenix, Tempe and to lesser a extent Mesa are somewhat encouraging.

[jbermingham123]

Soon-to-be-breaking news:

-Beijing requests to build a new consolate in Phoenix: "The Chinese people have always had a very special connection to.. *checks notes* ..Arizona," a CCP spokesperson says

-Huawei proposes deal to provide 5G internet access to the new semiconductor plants at below market value: "nah we won't record any of their data.. we promise" they said

-Chinese tourism in Phoenix doubles in the span of a single year: "Its very strange, they all seem to be from beijing and nowhere else," says local customs official

-Chinese space agency launches new "climate research" satellite into geostationary orbit at Arizona's longitude: "The mojave desert is like super neat, with a lot of very nice sand and rocks and such. Definitely not looking at anything other than the desert" the agency says.

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

1. AZ has abundant solar and, potentially, wind energy (I believe making chips is pretty energy intensive).

2. While much of the state is desert (not all), it has decent underground aquifers and it has a share of Colorado River water which is of such low quality that in Tucson where I am they don't put it in peoples' pipes, they pump it into the ground to replenish the aquifer. Underground apparently Mother Nature cleans it up. But I bet it could be used for chip-making.

Anyway, I wonder how much water making chips uses vs Arizona's traditional industries like mining which are very water intensive and what's worse, the retention ponds of used water at mine sites pollute the underground water supplies.


https://www.google.com/search?rls=en...V_PWdngLLBjUlM

Sheer population growth is depleting the water tables, despite any rosy news used to attract said industries. I live in the Verde Valley and any well drilling along the Verde River itself, requires going 120-150 ft. down. Farther up, to the source of the Verde, Big Chino Wash, in Paulden, new wells are now having to drill 300 ft down!

That wash supplies the water for most of Yavapai County and it's going away fast. Cottonwood has purchased water rights in the Black Hills, and they claim they have 100 years of water if the Verde runs dry, but I don't ever want to get near that point.

The Valley, despite all the new reclamation methods, still flaunts it's water usage WAY too much. It was much more sustainable when it was under 1 million people in the metro, where both surrounding agriculture and the cities could use mostly what was provided from the Salt, Gila, and Verde Rivers.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

https://www.cnbc.com/


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN27Y30E


https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...nt/4435424001/

Phoenix and Austin have a long history of US chip plants. When I did a short stint for Motorola in the mid 1989s, I believe they employed 20K in Phoenix and a large number also in Austin in their chip factories. I believe Phoenix is attracting a lot of electric car companies as well.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

Soon-to-be-breaking news:

-Beijing requests to build a new consolate in Phoenix: "The Chinese people have always had a very special connection to.. *checks notes* ..Arizona," a CCP spokesperson says

-Huawei proposes deal to provide 5G internet access to the new semiconductor plants at below market value: "nah we won't record any of their data.. we promise" they said

-Chinese tourism in Phoenix doubles in the span of a single year: "Its very strange, they all seem to be from beijing and nowhere else," says local customs official

-Chinese space agency launches new "climate research" satellite into geostationary orbit at Arizona's longitude: "The mojave desert is like super neat, with a lot of very nice sand and rocks and such. Definitely not looking at anything other than the desert" the agency says.

Well, that would be purely scientific

The southwestern quarter of AZ, including Phoenix and Tucson, is in the Sonoran desert.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

1. AZ has abundant solar and, potentially, wind energy (I believe making chips is pretty energy intensive).

2. While much of the state is desert (not all), it has decent underground aquifers and it has a share of Colorado River water which is of such low quality that in Tucson where I am they don't put it in peoples' pipes, they pump it into the ground to replenish the aquifer. Underground apparently Mother Nature cleans it up. But I bet it could be used for chip-making.

Anyway, I wonder how much water making chips uses vs Arizona's traditional industries like mining which are very water intensive and what's worse, the retention ponds of used water at mine sites pollute the underground water supplies.

...

It's not the energy that makes me say that, it's the water. Civilization requires water. If you have to build extensive public works to ship in water from far away, and pump large quantities of it from underground just to supply millions of people in a city, then that tells you the location of that city isn't a terribly good idea.

Here in KC we get our water from the Missouri River, which basically never gets short of water and runs right through the city, and we get tons of rain. We basically have infinite supplies of water right at our doorsteop. THAT is a good place to put a big city.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

Soon-to-be-breaking news:

-Beijing requests to build a new consolate in Phoenix: "The Chinese people have always had a very special connection to.. *checks notes* ..Arizona," a CCP spokesperson says

-Huawei proposes deal to provide 5G internet access to the new semiconductor plants at below market value: "nah we won't record any of their data.. we promise" they said

-Chinese tourism in Phoenix doubles in the span of a single year: "Its very strange, they all seem to be from beijing and nowhere else," says local customs official

-Chinese space agency launches new "climate research" satellite into geostationary orbit at Arizona's longitude: "The mojave desert is like super neat, with a lot of very nice sand and rocks and such. Definitely not looking at anything other than the desert" the agency says.

yeah sonoran, but jinkees! you got me lookin behind my back

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It's not the energy that makes me say that, it's the water. Civilization requires water. If you have to build extensive public works to ship in water from far away, and pump large quantities of it from underground just to supply millions of people in a city, then that tells you the location of that city isn't a terribly good idea.

Here in KC we get our water from the Missouri River, which basically never gets short of water and runs right through the city, and we get tons of rain. We basically have infinite supplies of water right at our doorsteop. THAT is a good place to put a big city.

The Valley, despite all the new reclamation methods, still flaunts it's water usage WAY too much. It was much more sustainable when it was under 1 million people in the metro, where both surrounding agriculture and the cities could use mostly what was provided from the Salt, Gila, and Verde Rivers.

To some degree I agree with you--it certainly is a major issue to be handled. But on the other hand, I don't know why we would single out water; to use Missouri as an example, it imports most of its power generation, and I'm sure much of its food supply, both also requirements for civilization. And with water specifically, Arizona's water usage is still all about agriculture, which uses about 70% of the state's water supply. We used more water in the state when we were under 1 million people in Phoenix metro than we do now, due to decreased agriculture and better conservation. And given that Arizona is part of a large country with many agricultural regions, I don't see any reason why Arizona couldn't reduce its agricultural water usage further when necessary.

[Buckeye Native 001]

The Mohave is pretty barren and dry, but I don't think outsiders realize and/or appreciate how "wet" is the Sonoran Desert. It's fertile, but the last couple of monsoon seasons (or lack thereof) is concerning. Not sure how much the urban heat island effect has to do with that?

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Phoenix and Austin have a long history of US chip plants. When I did a short stint for Motorola in the mid 1989s, I believe they employed 20K in Phoenix and a large number also in Austin in their chip factories. I believe Phoenix is attracting a lot of electric car companies as well.

This. It's just further expanding in places where it already had its industry.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

The Mohave is pretty barren and dry, but I don't think outsiders realize and/or appreciate how "wet" is the Sonoran Desert. It's fertile, but the last couple of monsoon seasons (or lack thereof) is concerning. Not sure how much the urban heat island effect has to do with that?

The average annual rainfall in Tucson, 12 inches and a fraction, is 50% more than the average in San Diego at 8 inches and a fraction.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It's not the energy that makes me say that, it's the water. Civilization requires water. If you have to build extensive public works to ship in water from far away, and pump large quantities of it from underground just to supply millions of people in a city, then that tells you the location of that city isn't a terribly good idea.

Here in KC we get our water from the Missouri River, which basically never gets short of water and runs right through the city, and we get tons of rain. We basically have infinite supplies of water right at our doorsteop. THAT is a good place to put a big city.

If it were profitable enough, desalinization plants could be built on the Gulf of California (or the Pacific but the state of CA would surely find excuses to block that) and pump all the fresh water needed to run chip fabs or any other industry. And given the nearly relentless sun, they could be solar powered and green.

The fact is fonzi is wrong. Arizona has sufficient water for its people. It’s industry, including mining, and agriculture, that stress its water supplies so finding additional supplies should be part of the cost of bringing in new industry.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

This. It's just further expanding in places where it already had its industry.

Not much difference between that and what’s happening in Texas then.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

If it were profitable enough, desalinization plants could be built on the Gulf of California (or the Pacific but the state of CA would surely find excuses to block that) and pump all the fresh water needed to run chip fabs or any other industry. And given the nearly relentless sun, they could be solar powered and green.

The fact is fonzi is wrong. Arizona has sufficient water for its people. It’s industry, including mining, and agriculture, that stress its water supplies so finding additional supplies should be part of the cost of bringing in new industry.

Desalinization isn't a magic bullet. It has harmful environmental consequences (brine, emissions) and could potentially present health risks by introducing contaminants into the water supply.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

...
2. While much of the state is desert (not all), it has decent underground aquifers and it has a share of Colorado River water which is of such low quality that in Tucson where I am they don't put it in peoples' pipes, they pump it into the ground to replenish the aquifer. Underground apparently Mother Nature cleans it up. But I bet it could be used for chip-making...

Megafarms and deeper wells are draining the water beneath rural Arizona – quietly, irreversibly
Ian James and Rob O'Dell, The Republic | azcentral.com
Published 11:13 AM PST Dec. 5, 2019

...Arizona’s groundwater levels are plummeting in many areas. The problem is especially severe in unregulated rural areas where there are no limits on pumping. The water levels in more than 2,000 wells have dropped more than 100 feet since they were first drilled. The number of newly constructed wells is accelerating, and wells are being drilled deeper and hitting water at lower levels.

This free-for-all is draining away the water that homeowners also depend on, leaving some with dry wells.

As the groundwater is depleted, Arizona is suffering permanent losses that may not be recouped for thousands of years. These underground reserves that were laid down over millennia represent the only water that many rural communities can count on as the desert Southwest becomes hotter and drier with climate change...

Even urban areas of the state where protections exist are facing major challenges. Years of drought, rapid growth and cutbacks in Colorado River water are increasing the pressures on groundwater in areas that fall under state regulation.

In an unprecedented examination of the state’s groundwater, The Arizona Republic analyzed water-level data for more than 33,000 wells throughout Arizona, including some records going back more than 100 years, and nearly 250,000 well-drilling records.

The investigation found the water levels in nearly one in four wells in Arizona’s groundwater monitoring program have dropped more than 100 feet since they were drilled, a loss that scientists and water experts say is likely irrecoverable....

https://www.azcentral.com/in-depth/n...ls/2425078001/