Cities with the "Je ne sais quoi" factor.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

perhaps i think its that tension that manifests itself and then suddenly can become totally cloaked is what i can’t explain about los angeles. all suddenly is forgiven in the southern california violet hour

Very true. Los Angeles can disgust me one minute and have me absolutely in love with it the next. I often experience this even just driving or walking around the city. You can be on a gross commercial corridor with tons of strip malls and fast food places, turn off one block into a residential neighborhood, and find yourself in an extremely pleasant environment with beautiful buildings and lush, diverse landscaping. I've also found the light in LA to be one of those intangible things that make the place special. Maybe it's because it's almost always sunny, and you get trained to recognize more gradation in light the more you're around it. But I find myself noticing the angle of the sun, tone of the light, and obviously the sunsets and golden hours way more than I did in other cities I've lived.

[Omaharocks]

I think Athens fits the bill. Like a combo of Berlin and L.A., on the adriatic.

Kind of ugly, but gritty, creative, fun, cheap. You can walk down a street of 60's apartments and suddenly come across ruins from the byzantine, or take a quick subway ride from the acropolis to the coast, where you can hop on any number of ferries to the most beautiful places on earth.

Oh and I'd echo Sarajevo, amazing place, especially since it's pretty small. Tirana, well...I lived for a summer in Tirana and it definitely is memorable and walks to its own beat.

I've heard Tbilisi is incredible, anyone spent time there?

[MolsonExport]

Marseille has this strange appeal, despite having a lousy reputation. But I sort of like the gritty angles, interspersed with narrow alleyways full of history and great food.


wikipedia, monumentsdemarseille.

Naples too. One of the most run down cities I have ever visited in a developed country. But I totally loved the place. Walking through the Spanish Quarter at dusk surely quickens the pulse.


redbubble

[jbermingham123]

I definitely agree with LA. The level of decentralization means that there is no rhyme or reason to the urban area and so its impossible to know what to expect from a street or neighborhood. Constant surprises around every corner. One minute you could be surrounded by strip malls and then suddenly youre surrounded by skyscrapers again. and then suddenly youre driving through an... oil field?? Throw in some scattered farmland and a rocket factory and some high tech arms manufacturers and maybe an amusement park or.. 4.. and you're all set. Oh and that doesnt even include the entertainment biz.

Whats also hilarious about LA is that the urban form actually really does reflect the culture and people there. LA is a total clusterfuck of different people with literally nothing in common, but who all manage to collectively work together to come up with the best directions to various places.

The main thing about LA (IMO) that really influences the feel of the place on a social level is the fact that youre surrounded by all the most physically attractive people on the planet. That giant sucking sound you've been hearing for half a century? Its all the most attractive people from every corner of the world being pulled to Los Angeles, USA... and then being followed by an order of magnitude more people who want to be attractive or famous... So when youre in nice areas or very public areas of LA, theres a palpable, semi-unconscious pressure to look good and make good impressions. Its almost the exact opposite of the sort of "Fuck you" attitude of east coast cities.. everyone knows theyre being constantly judged, and giving a shit about what others think of you is completely socially acceptable

LA's energy is a perfect balance of exciting and anxiety-provoking. The popularity contest is an ever-present white elephant in every interaction. You cant avoid it, no matter how much you might hate it. It keeps you self-conscious and on your toes. It keeps you creative.

[Shawn]

You guys all nailed Tokyo. I don't need to expand on any of it.

But the thing is, after you've lived here for half your life (or all your life because you're Japanese), you realize Tokyo is literally "generic Japan." It's flavorless in the context of overall Japaneseness, or wabisabi, or however you want to qualify it. It's not that Tokyo lacks any specific, discernible quality and thus has je ne sais quoi; instead, it's that Tokyo's only real quality is being the definition of a Japanese city. In Kanto, I'd argue that Yokohama actually has a mild hint of je ne sais quoi, but really that's just the slightest remnants of 19th century bohemianism mixed with more spacious planning than you'll find in Tokyo.

For me, Osaka is the real je ne sais quoi destination of Japan. Think Tokyo is ugly? Osaka is uglier. But it's also substantially more alive and uniquely flavored. In Tokyo, you know you're in Japan; in Osaka, you know you're in a specific place in Japan. The je ne sais quoi is some sort of amalgamation of Kansai-ben, brash-by-Japanese-standards citizenry, more intensely-flavored cuisine, a faster-paced claustrophobic geography and built environment, Boston-level adoration of local professional sports and propensity for pumping out sarcastic comedians, and a lack of pretentiousness. But CHRIST is it ugly.

[kool maudit]

Napes is amazing. A true metropolis.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Shawn

But the thing is, after you've lived here for half your life (or all your life because you're Japanese), you realize Tokyo is literally "generic Japan." It's flavorless in the context of overall Japaneseness, or wabisabi, or however you want to qualify it. It's not that Tokyo lacks any specific, discernible quality and thus has je ne sais quoi; instead, it's that Tokyo's only real quality is being the definition of a Japanese city. In Kanto, I'd argue that Yokohama actually has a mild hint of je ne sais quoi, but really that's just the slightest remnants of 19th century bohemianism mixed with more spacious planning than you'll find in Tokyo.

I'm not sure about Yokohama... Based on one visit, mind you, I spent my time walking around thinking, "I love this city..." but I knew why. Victorian houses, a big Victorian cemetery, art deco everywhere, a big shopping mall in a set of huge Victorian warehouses, flower gardens, Dutch ceramic tiles set into the sidewalks. I knew exactly why Yokohama delighted the hell out of me. It was basically what every American city should aspire to, what with historic preservation, fascinating historic architecture to preserve, interesting topography, density, superb transit, good food, and abundant ice cream. But Tokyo... The appeal was there in spades, but the closest I ever came to being able to explain why the appeal was there came whenever we toured a park like the Imperial Gardens or the patches of forest around some of the bigger shrines. Those places just exuded peace, even in the middle of the biggest city on earth, with the metropolis hammering away just beyond their borders.

[kool maudit]

Victorian houses in Yokohama! I never knew. Time to Street View...

[kool maudit]

Wow. Except for a few peculiarities of proportion and detailing, this could be a doctor's house in Utica c. 1910.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Wow. Except for a few peculiarities of proportion and detailing, this could be a doctor's house in Utica c. 1910.

Right down to the sleeping porch. For real fun, try tooling around the Foreigners Cemetery, or the Yokohama Red Brick Warehouse complex where the mall is located.

[Centropolis]

the shanghai bund is a strange one. at night it just felt like a post-cataclysm 25th century holideck representation of like a mid-21st century city wherein they didnt really have the details anymore. some strong art deco forms surrounded by towers of neon. restaurants full of people speaking english from around the planet eating duck confit.

[Centropolis]

i think most major pacific ocean port cities have this dissociative feel of peering into the heart of the century.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Shawn

You guys all nailed Tokyo. I don't need to expand on any of it.

But the thing is, after you've lived here for half your life (or all your life because you're Japanese), you realize Tokyo is literally "generic Japan." It's flavorless in the context of overall Japaneseness, or wabisabi, or however you want to qualify it. It's not that Tokyo lacks any specific, discernible quality and thus has je ne sais quoi; instead, it's that Tokyo's only real quality is being the definition of a Japanese city. In Kanto, I'd argue that Yokohama actually has a mild hint of je ne sais quoi, but really that's just the slightest remnants of 19th century bohemianism mixed with more spacious planning than you'll find in Tokyo.

For me, Osaka is the real je ne sais quoi destination of Japan. Think Tokyo is ugly? Osaka is uglier. But it's also substantially more alive and uniquely flavored. In Tokyo, you know you're in Japan; in Osaka, you know you're in a specific place in Japan. The je ne sais quoi is some sort of amalgamation of Kansai-ben, brash-by-Japanese-standards citizenry, more intensely-flavored cuisine, a faster-paced claustrophobic geography and built environment, Boston-level adoration of local professional sports and propensity for pumping out sarcastic comedians, and a lack of pretentiousness. But CHRIST is it ugly.

You talked about lack of pretentiousness and it reminded me of Hamburg. They're a lot like that, people are easy-going, not snob or feeling their city is somehow special.

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the shanghai bund is a strange one. at night it just felt like a post-cataclysm 25th century holideck representation of like a mid-21st century city wherein they didnt really have the details anymore. some strong art deco forms surrounded by towers of neon. restaurants full of people speaking english from around the planet eating duck confit.

I loved that description. I'm fascinated by those cyberpunk representations of real places.

[Segun]

Something about seeing those ancient structures in the middle of the city of Rome made it stand out for me. The renaissance influence is strong enough to stand on its own, but the Colosseum and other BCE structures really caught me in a “s**t you don’t see often” moment.

I’ve never been to Mexico City, but I can imagine it has a similar sense of shock with the Aztec remnants, and of course there’s Cairo, where structures from 5,000 years ago loom over the city in the distance.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Segun

Something about seeing those ancient structures in the middle of the city of Rome made it stand out for me. The renaissance influence is strong enough to stand on its own, but the Colosseum and other BCE structures really caught me in a “s**t you don’t see often” moment.

I’ve never been to Mexico City, but I can imagine it has a similar sense of shock with the Aztec remnants, and of course there’s Cairo, where structures from 5,000 years ago loom over the city in the distance.

There's a place not many tourists bother to check: the Roman Forum overview from the back of Capitoline Hill.

I was very charmed by Rome already by the reasons you described, but when I saw all the ruins from there and the Colosseum on the background it really blew me away. To think how those structures were in their apogee 2,000 years ago, right in the heart of a massive empire spanning over three continents.

[jbermingham123]

So have you guys heard of this place called Athens

[Segun]

^ That’s another place I’d like to visit.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Segun

Something about seeing those ancient structures in the middle of the city of Rome made it stand out for me. The renaissance influence is strong enough to stand on its own, but the Colosseum and other BCE structures really caught me in a “s**t you don’t see often” moment.

I’ve never been to Mexico City, but I can imagine it has a similar sense of shock with the Aztec remnants, and of course there’s Cairo, where structures from 5,000 years ago loom over the city in the distance.

Istanbul has this too.



It's not only the Roman stuff, though, but also stuff like the seraglio, which isn't that distant in time but culturally it's completely alien. Can you imagine if, say, the White House had a hall for captive prostitutes attached?

That shit is done off the books now

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Can you imagine if, say, the White House had a hall for captive prostitutes attached?

That shit is done off the books now

Yeah its all off the books now

They dont do anything in the White House anymore cuz its too risky. Nowadays everything happens in the back of a pizza place in DC.. they use kids as sex slaves and do satanic rituals and stuff.

..But thank god theres a guy named Q who knows all the secrets and posts them all online for everyone to see. Most people would sell that info for a lot of money to spies, foreign governments, etc, but not Q.. hes such a good guy that he posts it all online so that the good people of the United States can see all the same stuff that the top level officials and spies and foreign governments do. what a class act fella. We need more people like him at the top.. people with pure, altrusitic intentions and no ultierior motives

[niwell]

New Orleans. So much so that my now-wife wanted to get married there after our first visit. Which we did, and included a second line through Bywater to one of our favourite bars, whereupon the bartender immediately proceeded to hand me a gigantic bag of weed and MDMA plus two overfilled shots as a "wedding gift". Wasn't particularly interested in the first two (though they found a good home amongst my friends and other patrons at the bar) but happily imbibed in the latter. Planning a group trip there as soon as we can, I think.

Also Johannesburg, for me - it just clicked immediately the first time I visited. Lots of things going against it (definitely not a looker) but something nice about sitting alone at the bar and ending the night having friends you still talk to on the regular. Which is not an uncommon occurrence there.