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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 2:03 AM
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
North Loop has come and gone a few times as well.

Then there is NE Central with Carousel, North Burnet has some spots still, and the far far East (Govalle) is the new hot spot.

I think if you've been in Austin long enough you've come to expect change to be the norm.
What made Austin fairly unique, along with a small group of cities is that our entertainment venues were centralized in the core, not spread out around the city. That is the point I'm trying to make and that we are losing. I don't want to be like most other cities in that respect. It means we've lost an important part of our city's culture.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in. I want to be able to go to as many bars and clubs as I can without having to get into a car. That's how it was and granted still is to an extent, but for how long? I have no idea what is up north in terms of hot spots other than the Domain area and not likely to ever check them out because it's too far and not convenient from my perspective. We shouldn't just say well let's just build highrises DT because that is where they belong without making sure we continue to keep and nurture music/entertainment venues DT. I was asked how to implement a requirement a few posts up, I think it was by ATX if I'm not mistaken, well like any ordinance or requirement, have a certain amount of ground or second floor space specific designed for music/entertainment uses. I see a lot of restaurant or retail with projects but unless that includes entertainment venues as part of the definition, then there can only be so much "retail or restaurant" space to the point of oversaturation. It shouldn't be that hard to incorporate a mixture of uses such as music venues into highrise developments.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 4:35 AM
enragedcamel enragedcamel is offline
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in.
Okay, but you realize that with today's insane traffic and horrendously insufficient transport infrastructure, the only thing a centralized entertainment hub does is shut out most of the city's residents from taking advantage of that entertainment, right? You mention SXSW, yet most locals I know avoid Downtown like the plague during SXSW for that very reason!

I mean back in the day you could get from one end of the city to the other in 10-15 minutes. My neighbor, an Austin native, says he used to call Austin a "Twelve Minute Town" for that reason. Today though? Yeah...
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 5:25 AM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
What made Austin fairly unique, along with a small group of cities is that our entertainment venues were centralized in the core, not spread out around the city. That is the point I'm trying to make and that we are losing. I don't want to be like most other cities in that respect. It means we've lost an important part of our city's culture.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in. I want to be able to go to as many bars and clubs as I can without having to get into a car. That's how it was and granted still is to an extent, but for how long? I have no idea what is up north in terms of hot spots other than the Domain area and not likely to ever check them out because it's too far and not convenient from my perspective. We shouldn't just say well let's just build highrises DT because that is where they belong without making sure we continue to keep and nurture music/entertainment venues DT. I was asked how to implement a requirement a few posts up, I think it was by ATX if I'm not mistaken, well like any ordinance or requirement, have a certain amount of ground or second floor space specific designed for music/entertainment uses. I see a lot of restaurant or retail with projects but unless that includes entertainment venues as part of the definition, then there can only be so much "retail or restaurant" space to the point of oversaturation. It shouldn't be that hard to incorporate a mixture of uses such as music venues into highrise developments.
But like, the oldest bar being closed here is less than 10 years old
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 6:51 AM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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I get what Jdawgboy is saying, but I wonder how realistic it would be to expect an organic music and club scene to emerge in the pristine confines of downtown new construction. That just doesn't conform to the way that these places usually come together. The original bar scenes on 6th Street, the Warehouse District, Red River, and finally Rainey St. happened because there were plenty of almost derelict and highly affordable venues there for the taking. Even the scene on W. 6th Street emerged out of somewhat similar (admittedly requiring larger investments) circumstances. Those days are gone. I have a feeling most new venues trying to open in the first or second floor of a new office building or mixed use complex would require huge capital investments for very risky undertakings. It would be sad to see all the action move out of downtown, but I think we are many years away from that becoming anything close to a reality. The current construction boom will most certainly subside at some point. When the dust settles there will still be a lot of entertainment options downtown. What happened in in the nightlife industry in downtown Austin from the mid 1980s until very recently was an almost unique set of circumstances. The resultant nightlife and the emergence of SXSW helped create a brand for Austin. There is no denying any of that, but Austin is now known for other things as well that might not be so compatible with a noisy booming club scene in the center of the city. All those people living in zillion dollar condos and high-rent highrise apartments need their beauty sleep so they can get out there and earn those 6 figure salaries needed to live downtown.

Last edited by austlar1; Dec 4, 2019 at 6:16 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 7:33 AM
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It's not about any one bar; I think Jdawgboy is making a larger point about how Austin is seeing so many places of interest/entertainment venues knocked down and replaced by far less interesting/active uses.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 2:49 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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It's not about any one bar; I think Jdawgboy is making a larger point about how Austin is seeing so many places of interest/entertainment venues knocked down and replaced by far less interesting/active uses.
Sure, and I think actionable policy and district overlays make sense in certain areas, but the reason lots of these places existed we're because the areas were low rise and under-developed. No one wants a punk bar in the first floor of their condo building and it's pretty decidedly un-punk to boot.

I'm all for protecting districts that have historic value (dirty 6th, red river, warehouse, south congress, maybe even West 6th) but forcing music venues to exist is how you get little Italy
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 4:17 PM
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I modeled it at 550 feet.



























Boardwalk view - that's Ikon Austin (formerly, One Austin) on the far right. 60 East Avenue is immediately to its left.











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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 4:48 PM
urbancore urbancore is online now
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great work Kev, thanks.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 5:16 PM
urbancore urbancore is online now
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ABJ has an article with a rendering.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...tml#i/11546504

Lake Flato and 527' to the roof.

Not too shabby on the height, and LF is legit.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancore View Post
ABJ has an article with a rendering.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...tml#i/11546504

Lake Flato and 527' to the roof.

Not too shabby on the height, and LF is legit.
Just saw that. The T.O.P. is just slightly taller than the roofline - so, this one is maybe 528'-530' officially.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 6:03 PM
Austin1971 Austin1971 is offline
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[

Last edited by Austin1971; Jan 25, 2020 at 12:38 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 6:27 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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Cut n cap 35 and voila you have your next iteration of the Austin bar scene.....
Couldn't agree more. It's the perfect spot for less dense development.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 6:35 PM
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Here's the elevation from the ABJ article. It'll have a presence similar to the Fairmont as one drives through downtown on I-35.

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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 7:24 PM
Sigaven Sigaven is offline
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The fact that it's Lake Flato gives me hope for this project. Their work is super high quality and I have no doubt that they are well of the importance of street interaction in this district and won't cheap out on that. I'm not aware of LF having done a skyscraper before - anyone know of any precedents?
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 7:40 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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So it looks like our new plateau is about 500-550 ft or so. It's amazing how many of this next gen are falling into that category.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 7:47 PM
solmadrid solmadrid is offline
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Originally Posted by Sigaven View Post
The fact that it's Lake Flato gives me hope for this project. Their work is super high quality and I have no doubt that they are well of the importance of street interaction in this district and won't cheap out on that. I'm not aware of LF having done a skyscraper before - anyone know of any precedents?
Nothing on this scale. They have a 21 story hotel being built down in SA. https://www.lakeflato.com/hospitalit...el-san-antonio
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM
IluvATX IluvATX is online now
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Are the only renderings elevations? I think I like this one. Can the mods give it a better name/description?
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by IluvATX View Post
Are the only renderings elevations? I think I like this one. Can the mods give it a better name/description?
There are no renderings yet. The name/description is whatever the developers are calling it - usually from the site plan which is the case on this one.
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2019, 11:20 PM
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Looks like Northshore.
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 1:48 AM
papertowelroll papertowelroll is offline
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IMO we should definitely protect Red River and Dirty. Warehouse is already gone and West 6 I don't think needs any special protection beyond the CVC.

Rainey.. I don't know. I could go either way on that. Probably development is inevitable.

A problem with Austin is that downtown is just too small. We made a huge mistake not upzoning Plaza Saltillo, as that could have been an extension of downtown. As is downtown is bordered by UT and a bunch of SFH neighborhoods, and eventually we are going to have to develop every lot we can. (Or Sprawl into multiple nodes like Houston and DFW).
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