Select US Airports by Nonstop Routes 5,000+ Air Miles

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

No, Montreal, Toronto and Halifax all had non-stop flight from LaGuardia. Of course, these have been halted with the closure of the border with Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaGuardia_Airport

Yes, I meant that the only flight to LGA from the Caribbean comes from the Bahamas.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

No, Montreal, Toronto and Halifax all had non-stop flight from LaGuardia. Of course, these have been halted with the closure of the border with Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaGuardia_Airport

The point is the runways at LGA are not long enough to support the larger long haul jets.

It's nothing more or less than that. I think it equates to a maximum flight distance that gets you to +/- Denver in the US. I'm pretty sure there are also no direct flights to LA or SFO from LGA.


There is also no customs clearance at LGA. If you're flying to LGA from Canada, you clear customs at your point of exit. Or at least, that's the way it was the last time I checked.

[Steely Dan]

^ according to wikipedia, Spirit now flies to LAX from LGA.

The newer models of 737s and A320 series planes can go quite a long distance from short runway airports like LGA. Not trans-oceanic far, but certainly farther than Denver.

I mean, Chicago's midway airport has even shorter runways than LGA and it has nonstop service all the way down to Cabo San Lucas and San Juan, PR on southwest.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The point is the runways at LGA are not long enough to support the larger long haul jets.

It's nothing more or less than that. I think it equates to a maximum flight distance that gets you to +/- Denver in the US. I'm pretty sure there are also no direct flights to LA or SFO from LGA.


There is also no customs clearance at LGA. If you're flying to LGA from Canada, you clear customs at your point of exit. Or at least, that's the way it was the last time I checked.

No, the runways are long enough for flights to the West Coast (Santa Ana SNA) has flights to East Coast destinations with a 5,300 foot runway. The reason why there are only very limited flights to West Coast destinations is because of the Perimeter Rule, which the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey imposes. This artificially distorts air service from the three major NY-area airports, reducing capacity and raising airfares.

[202_Cyclist]

With the A220 aircraft, you could get flights to Lisbon, Dublin, and London from LaGuardia.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ according to wikipedia, Spirit flies to LAX from LGA.

The newer models of 737s and A320 series planes can go quite a long distance from short runway airports like LGA. Not trans-oceanic far, but certainly farther than Denver.

I learned something new. The 1,500 mile rule doesn't apply on Saturdays.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

No, the runways are long enough for flights to the West Coast (Santa Ana SNA) has flights to East Coast destinations with a 5,300 foot runway. The reason why there are only very limited flights to West Coast destinations is because of the Perimeter Rule, which the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey imposes. This artificially distorts air service from the three major NY-area airports, reducing capacity and raising airfares.

I don't know if it reduces capacity. LGA already has way too much traffic. I also don't think anything larger than a 757 can land there, and it's fairly unpopular for airlines to fly an aircraft smaller than that nonstop coast to coast on a regular basis.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ according to wikipedia, Spirit now flies to LAX from LGA.

The newer models of 737s and A320 series planes can go quite a long distance from short runway airports like LGA. Not trans-oceanic far, but certainly farther than Denver.

I mean, Chicago's midway airport has even shorter runways than LGA and it has nonstop service all the way down to Cabo San Lucas and San Juan, PR on southwest.

The A321s can fly trans-Atlantic. We flew one from Lisbon to Newark in 2019.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't know if it reduces capacity. LGA already has way too much traffic. I also don't think anything larger than a 757 can land there, and it's fairly unpopular for airlines to fly an aircraft smaller than that nonstop coast to coast on a regular basis.

Yes, it absolutely restricts capacity (i.e. the number of seats) available at LaGuardia. There are only so many destinations that airlines can fly to within 1,500 miles of LaGuardia. This means there are both more frequencies (with fewer passengers on each plane) and smaller regional aircraft used to serve the smaller cities from LaGuardia.

Instead of flying a 737 to SFO, LAX, or Phoenix, you have flights every half hour on 80-seat aircraft to Charlotte.

[craigs]

By the way, for airplane junkies there's an app called FlightRadar24 that identifies what is flying over your house (or any location you pick). I've got a Turkish Airlines 777-3F2(ER) flying from LAX to IST almost directly over my house right now at 14,700+ ft. Just thirteen hours to go!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The A321s can fly trans-Atlantic. We flew one from Lisbon to Newark in 2019.

Oh yeah, for certain trans-atlantic routes, some of the newer long haul 737 and A320 series narrow bodies can now do those too.

And 757s having been doing trans-atlantic for decades.....

[ChiSoxRox]

Before Covid, the smallest US metro with a nonstop to Europe was surprising: Fairbanks!

We had a weekly Condor non-stop to Frankfurt.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Yes, it absolutely restricts capacity (i.e. the number of seats) available at LaGuardia. There are only so many destinations that airlines can fly to within 1,500 miles of LaGuardia. This means there are both more frequencies (with fewer passengers on each plane) and smaller regional aircraft used to serve the smaller cities from LaGuardia.

Instead of flying a 737 to SFO, LAX, or Phoenix, you have flights every half hour on 80-seat aircraft to Charlotte.

I think what would end up happening is that a SFO-LGA route would just displace other flights that are less lucrative. On a normal day, planes at LGA will easily spend an hour just taxiing to the runway for takeoff. I don't think there is actual capacity to support more planes in that airport.

What would help a lot, though, is a true high-speed connection in the northeast corridor. If they could convert the several dozen daily flights to Boston and D.C. from LGA to train trips, that would open up a lot o capacity for LGA to accept flights from the west coast during the week.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

There is also no customs clearance at LGA. If you're flying to LGA from Canada, you clear customs at your point of exit. Or at least, that's the way it was the last time I checked.

Correct. Intl. flights to LGA have to clear customs at the departure point.

There are only limited intl. flights to LGA, though. Just Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean in recent years, and it can't change unless they extend the runways (which is extremely difficult due to NIMBYs). So I imagine that most intl. flights to the NY region will always be traveling through JFK and Newark.

Some of the fringe airports do have customs clearance, so the budget airlines do use Stewart, MacArthur, etc. Spirit Air and the other cheapo airlines have MacArthur-Carribean flights, and the cheapo European airlines use Stewart.

Super long-term, Stewart has a potential to be a 4th major airport, as it's now owned by the Port Authority (which owns the other Big 3 regional airports) and has no NIMBYs and essentially unlimited room for expansion.

[mhays]

It's remarkable how constrained NYC's airports are. Expansions can be extremely tough and require many years of planning and lawsuits as well as billions in costs...but it seems like Teterboro or Westchester could have gone through a 20-year process by now.

Moving 100 acres of industrial use and tunneling an arterial would be a big deal, but are certainly doable.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mhays

It's remarkable how constrained NYC's airports are. Expansions can be extremely tough and require many years of planning and lawsuits as well as billions in costs...but it seems like Teterboro or Westchester could have gone through a 20-year process by now.

Moving 100 acres of industrial use and tunneling an arterial would be a big deal, but are certainly doable.

Westchester is surrounded by some of the most affluent, ultra-NIMBY suburbia in the U.S. Will never be expanded. Billionaires in Rye and Greenwich would go nuts. They routinely sue over very incremental improvements, like an upgraded hanger or something.

Teterboro is the busiest general aviation airport on earth, and surrounded by dense suburbia. It serves its purpose, as the regional hub for most corporate/private/charter flights. The non-commercial flight industry is pretty huge these days, and Teterboro serves that niche. Some of the terminals at Teterboro are really fancy and elaborate, but obviously aren't for the general public.

The Port Authority had plans for a gigantic new international airport in the Jersey swamps, but NIMBYs fought it for years, and it was cancelled in the 1970's. Would have been the largest regional airport, now it's the Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge. Again, wealthy NIMBYs are a tough adversary in this part of the country.

[mhays]

We spent decades to add another runway at Sea-Tac, fighting local cities, going through an interminable EIS and lawsuit process, and turning a valley into a plateau. Maybe NY/NJ/CT have tougher laws that make challenges insurmountable, or is it more about political will?

On the topic of long distance routes... Sea-Tac historically didn't have much connecting traffic. Before the new runway (a decade ago), we were restricted to a single runway 40% of the time, during any low-visibility, so it was too sketchy to add a bunch more flights. With the new runway, traffic rose from the 30m range to 50m, and international traffic doubled to over 5m.

Next, we're opening a new international arrivals facility later this year. The current facility is a terrible log-jam. I'm hoping this turns that 5m into something much larger, more like an international hub.

We still lack capacity as a region. One of the three local airports that Boeing uses recently started a little service. But there's now study of an all-new airport. The challenges are...astronimical.

[JManc]

Speaking of Sea-Tac, that airport is straight out of 1978.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Westchester is surrounded by some of the most affluent, ultra-NIMBY suburbia in the U.S. Will never be expanded. Billionaires in Rye and Greenwich would go nuts. They routinely sue over very incremental improvements, like an upgraded hanger or something.

Teterboro is the busiest general aviation airport on earth, and surrounded by dense suburbia. It serves its purpose, as the regional hub for most corporate/private/charter flights. The non-commercial flight industry is pretty huge these days, and Teterboro serves that niche. Some of the terminals at Teterboro are really fancy and elaborate, but obviously aren't for the general public.

The Port Authority had plans for a gigantic new international airport in the Jersey swamps, but NIMBYs fought it for years, and it was cancelled in the 1970's. Would have been the largest regional airport, now it's the Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge. Again, wealthy NIMBYs are a tough adversary in this part of the country.

Westchester has a locally-imposed cap of three million passengers per year. Teterboro is purely a general aviation airport.

The Port Authority owns and operates Stewart, which has plenty of land available but that is mostly for leisure flights to destinations in Florida.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by JManc

Speaking of Sea-Tac, that airport is straight out of 1978.

How so? They've spent billions on terminal expansions and upgrades, including three major projects just completing:
--North Satellite expansion/renovation
--International Arrivals terminal and new bridge from South Satellite
--Central Terminal grand hall renovation

Some of it's getting old, but a large percentage is pretty good.

It's also one of the few airports where you can walk off the property to your hotel or apartment.