What's Your City's Staten Island?

[Docere]

What struck me is the way a small town, like, say, Nutley, New Jersey, seems to have become (or always was?) a kind of Little Italy all its own. That when Italian Americans did their part in the great white flight to the suburbs in the decades following the Second World War, those in the New York area appeared to have taken a good part of the commerce and culture of their urban neighborhoods with them. (I realize I’m making some broad generalizations here.)

This phenomenon did not happen in California, even though the state had a number of Italian American urban neighborhoods that disappeared or drastically changed when Italian Americans moved out of the cities. Why does Italian American identity remain intact more recognizably in Eastern suburbs?

There are two straightforward answers: demographics and geography. California’s 1.5 million Italian Americans just don’t compare to the nearly 4.5 million in New York and New Jersey. Plus, New York’s relative nearness to Italy arguably allows for commerce and culture to move back and forth more easily.

However, there’s a more interesting possibility, one that requires much more careful study than is called for in a simple blog post: that is, the role of the (often-overlooked) second major wave of Italian immigration to the U.S. after the Second World War. Sure, California received its share of post-WW II immigrants (and they’re still coming today—Silicon Valley is full of Italians with H1-B visas), but not to the same degree as on the East Coast. Further—and yes, I’m being a little coy here—but I’ll take a wild guess that the influx of new immigrants in the post-war decades reinvigorated Italian American communities in greater New York in multiple ways: from customs around food, to the use of Italian and dialects, to all sorts of vernacular displays of culture.

Let’s get specific, or maybe I’m just turning to the mundane. For example, I was surprised at how much Neapolitan I heard walking around Nutley and at the ways the local Nutley supermarket, a Shop-Rite, caters to an Italian American clientele.

http://bloggers.iitaly.org/bloggers/...nian-goes-east

[Docere]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

This got me thinking: What is your city's Staten Island-equivalent? Basically, a less-dense, geographically isolated region that is economically favored but socially ignored or, even, slightly scorned?

Maybe we can form a support group.

Scarborough was suggested as the most "ignored" of the old boroughs of Toronto but it's also the least white and arguably most diverse area. Toronto doesn't really have predominantly white areas on its outer edges, unless you're counting the Etobicoke lakeshore or something which is still quite white and working class, but not particularly Italian and sort of a "hidden pocket" given its location south of the Queen Elizabeth Way. Less insular today though.

[The North One]

Does it have to be in city limits? Cause for Detroit it's definitely Grosse Ile. Which is a huge Island.

[craigs]

I don't see a San Francisco analogy to a Trumpy, cops 'n' nurses white ethnic enclave within city limits like Staten Island. You won't find a white ethnic enclave like that anywhere in the Bay Area, and you won't find that kind of socio-political enclave until you're way out in the Bay Area exurbs, like maybe Tracy.

[SFBruin]

Since we're on the topic of SF, could maybe St. Francis Wood count?

It's not really geographically isolated, but it does have an enclave feel to it, is uncharacteristically suburban for San Francisco, and is, if anything, wealthier than SI.

Ironically, the one person I have ever met from Tracy is very much not white, so I have this view of everyone in Tracy being non-white.

[Crawford]

Where do SF cops live? There have to be some moderately conservative cop-firefighter neighborhood in the core Bay Area. I don't think SF has residency requirements for municipal workers, right? Maybe some white, non-wealthy areas in Contra Costa? Places like Danville or Black Hawk?

I'm not even sure if SI is accurately characterized as a city employee enclave. NYC has no city residency requirements for municipal workers. A teacher or subway operator could live on the moon, for all they care. The South Shore of LI is probably more cop-firefighter than SI. Both areas will have a lot of contractors, small business operators, and people who don't work desk jobs.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Where do SF cops live? There have to be some moderately conservative cop-firefighter neighborhood in the core Bay Area. I don't think SF has residency requirements for municipal workers, right? Maybe some white, non-wealthy areas in Contra Costa? Places like Danville or Black Hawk?

Maybe if they are very well paid, high ranking officers, Danville and Blackhawk are rather wealthy areas.

I would say a better bet would be Dublin, Pleasanton(also fairly wealthy), Livermore, Mountain House and Tracy in that area.

And Brentwood and Oakley in far eastern Contra Costa.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Where do SF cops live?

There's been longstanding complaints about how SF cops live in outer suburbs and exurbs. One issue is that they are seen by some as unsympathetic to city residents, and another is that they can't help out if a disaster occurs in the middle of the night like they could if they were not 50 miles away.

There have to be some moderately conservative cop-firefighter neighborhood in the core Bay Area.

If there are, I cannot think of them.

I don't think SF has residency requirements for municipal workers, right? Maybe some white, non-wealthy areas in Contra Costa? Places like Danville or Black Hawk?

Danville and Blackhawk are fairly wealthy. SFPD officers make good money, but unless they purchased their home decades ago, not good enough to move into horse country.

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Maybe if they are very well paid, high ranking officers, Danville and Blackhawk are rather wealthy areas.

I would say a better bet would be Dublin, Pleasanton(also fairly wealthy), Livermore, Mountain House and Tracy in that area.

And Brentwood and Oakley in far eastern Contra Costa.

I would imagine SF cops these days live in places like Antioch, Vallejo, and Tracy. I don't think they are numerous or concentrated enough to impact the local politics. I knew a couple of firefighters who lived in Tracy.

[biguc]

In Berlin it's Spandau. It's isolated far off in the west, nobody goes there, the people are dumpy and drive everywhere, transit sucks and there's basically no plan to ever improve it, people call it the Spandau Suburbs. It feels as much a part of Berlin as Potsdam. Relative to the rest of the city it's even sort of an island, situated across the Havel and its chain of lakes.

[Crawford]

I spent a week in Kladow, near Spandau, as a kid, not long after reunification.

That area has a Germanic Staten Island-y feel. Remember long bus rides to the furthest subway terminal.