PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[Randomguy34]

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

I live in Northbank (the new development in Fishtown on the water). About 130 houses have settled so far and there a tons of out of state plates. The out of state plates are dominated by NY and NJ but also see Massachusetts, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Texas, California, Connecticut, Colorado, Washington (state), and the most random: Arkansas.

On another interesting note, the neighborhood thus far is skewing very Asian. About 60% of the settled homes thus far are owned by families with Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and/or Japanese surnames. Another 10% or so are South Asian.

There has been so much interest from Chinese buyers that the developer hired a Mandarin speaking sales person.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

I've been noticing an elevated level of out-of-state plates since at least 2016. I was a Temple student at the time, and I was working at a store that sold beer. At least 25% of all the licenses I checked were from out-of-state. After graduating in 2018, I lived in West Philly (Cedar Park) for a year before spending the next two years in Fairmount. I saw a lot of them in both areas.

Now that I've bought a house within a development in Roxborough, I'm noticing more of the same. I also see mostly New York and Jersey plates, but I've also seen California, Arizona, and even Oregon plates as well. People in a certain Facebook group love to act like the sky is falling in Roxborugh and Manayunk, but they are easily two of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city--the out-of-state plates help to make that case!

[Raja]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

Echoing what others have said, the most obvious influx has been NY. I've also seen quite a few CT, VA, and TX, plus a handful of CA, CO, OR, and WA. To your specific question, I haven't personally seen that many southern plates. What's your theory -- political or climate refugees, or is it more about economics?

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Misleading title to say outsiders like New Yorkers are raising the bar. Um...last I checked the Philly suburbs are really desirable, particularly ones with high quality school districts, or suburbs that have private and expensive private schools, i.e., Main Line. Even outside of the Main Line, various bedroom neighborhoods in the surrounding counties are commanding a premium selling price post pandemic, say 4 or 5 months ago before inflation and mortgage interest rate shot up. Lots of properties trades hands (e.g., people traded up in many instances) and they weren't all from people outside of this area.

I agree, the title is meh, but the bulk of the article portrays a better picture. Except one dumb part, the NYC area couple saying the Main Line was basically free because their new $4.7M house would have been $15M in the NYC burbs. It would be more like $7-8M, but I digress...

But yes, Philadelphia has some of the best suburbs in the nation, and the Main Line has long been a mainstay for money and is arguably the most desirable prestigious suburban enclave in the country.

IMO, the title signals Philadelphia being sandwiched between NYC and DC. To some clueless people (and NY Times reporters), their minds think: "Who would have thought a major region of 6M+ people would have desirable areas to live?", lol.

Either way I view the real estate trends in the region as largely good, and it shows everywhere, not just on the Main Line or in Philadelphia.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

In my area it's a lot of NY, CT, NJ, MD, VA, FL, TX, GA. Also a few Canadians as well and one from OH. I have the opportunity to interact with a lot of people and learn their stories and many are here for extended work stays. A few have purchased homes/moved into permanent rentals and plan to stay but a fair amount shared that they plan on returning home eventually or trying out another place.

In all of my years in the area this is the most transient I have ever seen it.

Originally Posted by Raja

Echoing what others have said, the most obvious influx has been NY. I've also seen quite a few CT, VA, and TX, plus a handful of CA, CO, OR, and WA. To your specific question, I haven't personally seen that many southern plates. What's your theory -- political or climate refugees, or is it more about economics?

Lots of FL in my area and most I have spoken to are here for work (medical field). All so far have told me that they like it here but do miss the FL weather and lifestyle and will eventually be moving back.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I agree, the title is meh, but the bulk of the article portrays a better picture. Except one dumb part, the NYC area couple saying the Main Line was basically free because their new $4.7M house would have been $15M in the NYC burbs. It would be more like $7-8M, but I digress...

But yes, Philadelphia has some of the best suburbs in the nation, and the Main Line has long been a mainstay for money and is arguably the most desirable prestigious suburban enclave in the country.

IMO, the title signals Philadelphia being sandwiched between NYC and DC. To some clueless people (and NY Times reporters), their minds think: "Who would have thought a major region of 6M+ people would have desirable areas to live?", lol.

Either way I view the real estate trends in the region as largely good, and it shows everywhere, not just on the Main Line or in Philadelphia.

Yep, the article just rubbed me the wrong way because it could imply Philly and burb folks aren't savvy enough about real estate to command a premium without New Yorkers. Like the people that write these articles have an inferior complex when it comes to comparing to NY folks and their perceived greatness or something.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Yep, the article just rubbed me the wrong way because it could imply Philly and burb folks aren't savvy enough about real estate to command a premium without New Yorkers. Like the people that write these articles have an inferior complex when it comes to comparing to NY folks and their perceived greatness or something.

Or the inferiority complex is found here. NY folks did drive up the prices quickly and prior to now Philly was not a cool place. Locals knew its secrets and its benefits and had a love for it but on the national scale, not really.

[iheartphilly]

^
Nah, the educated, smart and savvy and solid or well-to-do philly and burbs folks don't have an inferior complex here. Demand to move to the suburbs from the city and other parts of our State drove prices up. People trading up for more square footage or more yard or in-ground pool also drove prices up. Article made it sound like New Yorkers were the ones the drove prices up which is not the case. It was the aggregate of supply and demand in the housing market that drove up prices.

[MyDadBuiltThat]

I've been trying to buy a house in Mt Airy for over year. Anything nice has closed on the first day, well over asking, cash, no inspection. I can't play that game. I remember looking at house on day one and that evening they had 4 competing cash offers. It has slowed down somewhat recently but often turns out to be someone asking way too much given the condition.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
Nah, the educated, smart and savvy and solid or well-to-do philly and burbs folks don't have an inferior complex here. Demand to move to the suburbs from the city and other parts of our State drove prices up. People trading up for more square footage or more yard or in-ground pool also drove prices up. Article made it sound like New Yorkers were the ones the drove prices up which is not the case. It was the aggregate of supply and demand in the housing market that drove up prices.

But it is the case. What drove prices up so rapidly was an influx of people from places like NYC who were willing to pay way more than normally for the area, the same thing happened in other places like Miami. Just Philly and PA would not have been able to cause prices to increase that rapidly in that short amount of time.

And there would be no [or much less] supply/demand issues here without the sudden rapid influx of people. The same thing is happening in places like Harrisburg but there a lot of it is from an influx of people from other countries, namely Nepal; even the rental market in HBG is crazy right now:

Harrisburg ranked one of the 'toughest' rental markets in US

Harrisburg sits as the second most competitive rental market, just behind Miami-Dade County in Florida.
https://www.fox43.com/article/money/...8-b85009adf559

[iheartphilly]

If there's a way to look up residential real estate transactions from period x to period y for various local zip codes and determine where the buyers are from, that would be telling. I don't doubt New Yorkers have moved in as it has been well publicized but I would also not discount local moves that I think have also contributed to the the crazy 20-30% inflated selling prices during the pandemic and post-pandemic period.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

If there's a way to look up residential real estate transactions from period x to period y for various local zip codes and determine where the buyers are from, that would be telling. I don't doubt New Yorkers have moved in as it has been well publicized but I would also not discount local moves that I think have also contributed to the the crazy 20-30% inflated selling prices during the pandemic and post-pandemic period.

It's annecdotal, but I know of several people from upper MontCo who recently moved into Philadelphia. I also know someone from Philly who intended on moving to Bryn Mawr, but ended up in Fitler Square and is very happy with his choice.

[iheartphilly]

^
yep a couple of my neighbors moved to the next town over but within striking distance of each other. and the homes here on my cul-du-sac sold under 1 week and 50k over asking. for one couple it was a wash in sell and buy prices. for the other, they paid a little more on the new home.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

The same thing is happening in places like Harrisburg but there a lot of it is from an influx of people from other countries, namely Nepal;https://www.fox43.com/article/money/...8-b85009adf559

Come again?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Come again?

Harrisburg's Nepalese (Bhutanese) refugee population is now one of the largest in the U.S. and there continues to be a rapid influx. And because of Harrisburg's size it's very noticeable and entire neighborhoods have changed seemingly overnight, including my old ones. We sold my Dad's house last year and they jumped on it as well as the house behind his and many of my friends' houses, and it has been a big part of the tight rental market. It's been interesting to watch and there has been some culture clashes. Here's an article from last year that explains the situation:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/0...everybody.html

Why Harrisburg?

As the Bhutanese tell it, the Harrisburg area gained favor in the secondary migration for several reasons:

Strong job opportunities, especially for people who arrived without university degrees.
“A lot of folks are coming from different backgrounds, and all do not hold similar kinds of qualifications,” explained Luitel. “Our parents never got a chance to go to school back home. Now, they have to work here to support their families. So jobs at places like the warehouse and distribution centers have been a good fit for many Bhutanese.”

A fast-growing entrepreneur class also has opened businesses, from home health care services to groceries, that employ more Bhutanese.

A manageable cost of living, and a good strong health care safety net.
As has been documented many times, the cost of a home in southcentral Pennsylvania is far lower than in most major metro areas. And the word has gotten around to many Bhutanese that the social safety net, especially medical assistance for seniors, is comparatively good in Pennsylvania.

Physical reminders of home.
“It’s so much closer to the country that we lived in. If you look around, we like the mountains. We like the rivers. Green space, the air, everything is very attractive to us,” said Bishwa Chhetri, another community leader.

And now, the migration to central Pennsylvania has gained momentum, like a snowball rolling downhill.

Whether it’s in Lower Paxton, Swatara or Susquehanna townships on the East Shore, or Hampden Township on the West Shore, the Bhutanese have developed the kind of critical mass — including Hindu temples and Christian churches, social and sports organizations, and businesses — that draws more people here year after year.

“They look before they buy a house, they want to find whether or not there will be Nepali neighbors around,” said Chhetri, who is a real estate agent.

“We built an epicenter, and we expanded out. We are all the way out to Lebanon now. ... I sold the first house in Lebanon two years ago, and had to convince him to live five miles away from other Bhutanese. I said: ‘Look, be a leader. People will follow you.’ After two years, there are about 20 homes now in that neighborhood (owned by the Bhutanese).

“That’s our social security or whatever you call it. Support each other. We find safety in numbers,” Chhetri said.


And Harrisburg is home to the first Bhutanese pharmacist in the US:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/0...YSw2Nr_817m0Vg

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Harrisburg's Nepalese (Bhutanese) refugee population is now one of the largest in the U.S. and there continues to be a rapid influx. And because of Harrisburg's size it's very noticeable and entire neighborhoods have changed seemingly overnight, including my old ones. We sold my Dad's house last year and they jumped on it as well as the house behind his and many of my friends' houses, and it has been a big part of the tight rental market. It's been interesting to watch and there has been some culture clashes. Here's an article from last year that explains the situation:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/0...everybody.html

Why Harrisburg?

As the Bhutanese tell it, the Harrisburg area gained favor in the secondary migration for several reasons:

Strong job opportunities, especially for people who arrived without university degrees.
“A lot of folks are coming from different backgrounds, and all do not hold similar kinds of qualifications,” explained Luitel. “Our parents never got a chance to go to school back home. Now, they have to work here to support their families. So jobs at places like the warehouse and distribution centers have been a good fit for many Bhutanese.”

A fast-growing entrepreneur class also has opened businesses, from home health care services to groceries, that employ more Bhutanese.

A manageable cost of living, and a good strong health care safety net.
As has been documented many times, the cost of a home in southcentral Pennsylvania is far lower than in most major metro areas. And the word has gotten around to many Bhutanese that the social safety net, especially medical assistance for seniors, is comparatively good in Pennsylvania.

Physical reminders of home.
“It’s so much closer to the country that we lived in. If you look around, we like the mountains. We like the rivers. Green space, the air, everything is very attractive to us,” said Bishwa Chhetri, another community leader.

And now, the migration to central Pennsylvania has gained momentum, like a snowball rolling downhill.

Whether it’s in Lower Paxton, Swatara or Susquehanna townships on the East Shore, or Hampden Township on the West Shore, the Bhutanese have developed the kind of critical mass — including Hindu temples and Christian churches, social and sports organizations, and businesses — that draws more people here year after year.

“They look before they buy a house, they want to find whether or not there will be Nepali neighbors around,” said Chhetri, who is a real estate agent.

“We built an epicenter, and we expanded out. We are all the way out to Lebanon now. ... I sold the first house in Lebanon two years ago, and had to convince him to live five miles away from other Bhutanese. I said: ‘Look, be a leader. People will follow you.’ After two years, there are about 20 homes now in that neighborhood (owned by the Bhutanese).

“That’s our social security or whatever you call it. Support each other. We find safety in numbers,” Chhetri said.


And Harrisburg is home to the first Bhutanese pharmacist in the US:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/0...YSw2Nr_817m0Vg

Interesting indeed. I found that article before you posted it.

What's interesting is that the census results for the towns mentioned in the article still claim that the demographics are still only 3-5% Asian, even less for Dauphin County as a whole. One would think if the numbers as stated were correct (which I have no doubt they are), that it would show up in demographic data.

If Dauphin County had 25K Bhutanese Immigrants is should be at least 10% Asian. It's less than 5% Asian (per official records).

[Skintreesnail]

Very cool, PA has some really great small cities and i kind of get wanting to be in a more manageable place coming to a different country. I always was a big fan of that area as a lot of the cities seem really walkable, especially Lancaster and Harrisburg. They all have nice public market buildings too, which i think is great.

[iheartphilly]

^
Downtown Lancaster is super walkable and now very trendy with restaurants, shops and the Central Market. Even around F&M college is super walkable too.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Question: I haven't been back in Philly for several months, have you all noticed more out-of-state license plates? Over in Chicago, folks have been noticing many more license plates from the South. People in the Albany subreddit have also noticed an influx of Southeners, some even introducing themselves to the subreddit.

I live in northern Delaware and haven't really noticed any change here. I still see the usual Delaware plates with sometimes some PA and MD plates and rarely VA and NY plates but not really anything else.