[Halifax] St. Joseph's Square (5450 Kaye) | 32 m | 9 fl | Completed

[Dmajackson]

Case 01325 Details

[Jonovision]

I would think they would at least be able to rotate their images. It is not that difficult. I didn't realize this was Kassner Goodspeed. Knowing that I have some faith that this could turn out quite nicely. The Paramount is one of my favorite recent buildings in Halifax and this seems to have a similar pallet.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

I would think they would at least be able to rotate their images. It is not that difficult. I didn't realize this was Kassner Goodspeed. Knowing that I have some faith that this could turn out quite nicely. The Paramount is one of my favorite recent buildings in Halifax and this seems to have a similar pallet.

Looks like another disappointing cookie-cutter precast wonder to me. Aside from the Paramount, I have been unimpressed with Kassner Goodspeed's work.

[someone123]

Yes, their buildings tend to have very cheap materials and look disappointing. At best they usually end up looking like they'd be okay if the developer had "splurged" (on a building where the condos average $500k or whatever...) and used something other than stucco for the fake cornices.

The Lexington in particular is one of those. It's not bad but the brickwork is a little sloppy in sections and there are bits of exposed concrete column and balcony. It's not unattractive, but they definitely cut corners.

Looking at building plans submitted to the HRM it's not hard to see why this happens. I had a look again at the elevations for the Vic apartments at Hollis and Morris the other day and they said things like "stone or stone veneer/stucco". I also remember back when the Marriott was being planned and there was talk of how the building would be brick with stone accents. When it actually went up it was a different story.

I know it's not economically infeasible to use good cladding materials because some affordable developments do it and some expensive ones do not. Exterior finishing and design quality seems totally uncorrelated with budgets and profits, which suggests to me that the city should be imposing higher standards.

[Dmajackson]

Both of these are from the project's detail page

[halifaxboyns]

While I don't like the concrete colour (assuming that is concrete), my only problem is the blank wall effect created as you go up the podium. If the building walls were some how articulated or broken up with say a window feature or something or even a becorative feature stretching up the building walls - I think that would fix that problem. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to buy one of the townhouse units, I think that would be a great spot to live.

[Keith P.]

Disappointingly (but not surprisingly), this got a rough ride at the hearing Thursday:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1179939.html

Highrise condos raise concern
North-end residents weigh in on proposal
By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter
Fri. Apr 30 - 4:54 AM

John Murphy’s family has lived on Russell Street in north-end Halifax for four generations.

"I’ve seen this neighbourhood deteriorate little by little," Murphy said Thursday night in addressing a public information meeting about a proposed condo complex on his street.

Sobeys-owned ECL Properties Ltd. wants to build an 11-storey condo tower surrounded by two-storey townhouses and commercial space on the site of St. Joseph’s Church. The complex would be called St. Joseph’s Square.

Traffic and congestion were hot topics at the public meeting that filled the gym of Ecole St. Joseph’s A. McKay School.

"We’ve got apartments sprouting up here like mushrooms," Alex McCleave said. "This looming project is going to dominate the community."

The entrance to the condo tower’s 94 underground parking spaces would be on Russell Street, where drivers could encounter children walking to the street’s two schools — St. Joseph’s and the Shambhala School.

The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

"I’m not going to be able to get out of my driveway," one resident complained.

The developer’s traffic studies estimate the complex would cause just a 2.5 per cent increase in peak morning traffic, or 22 trips in and out of the building.

McCleave also worried that condo residents would park underground for the duration of the winter parking ban but on the street the rest of the year, as happens in many areas of the city’s south end.

Another resident pointed out that the 36-metre condo tower would be just nine metres lower than the Macdonald bridge.

Patrick LeRoy, whose family owns a small investment property on Gottingen Street, urged the group to look favourably on the condo proposal.

"We need this type of density on peninsular Halifax," he said, explaining that urban sprawl is hard on city coffers.

A shade study suggested there will be little impact on area homes, but resident Mark Butler doesn’t like that the St. Joseph’s school playground will be blocked from the sun.

Butler said he is in favour of population density, but "the height to me seems excessive."

Landscape architect Rob LeBlanc told the meeting that the roofs of the townhouses would be designed to dissipate any wind-tunnel effect caused by the tower.

Murphy sat on the committee that sold the church property. The church will get $20,000 for each condo unit built, but Murphy said he was shocked to hear that the present proposal calls for 85 units. He was expecting 50 to 60 and is concerned that the project may now be too big for the neighbourhood.

Virginia Bond of ECL Properties said condo prices would be in line with north-end property values.

The site is zoned for institutional development and parks. For construction to go ahead, council would have to approve a zoning change.

It is estimated that construction would take five years, create 340 jobs, and bring in $2.5 million in taxes.

Murphy and other residents fear the lengthy construction period would lead to decreased enrolment at St. Joseph’s school, possibly resulting in its closure.

[someone123]

There was a wonderful quote in Allnovascotia from a resident suggesting he or she might have to attend the funerals of children struck by cars that would be present in this area because of the new development.

I wonder how it is that Sacred Heart still exists given the fact that it has a highrise right next door and three others on adjacent blocks. It's a miracle they didn't close down back when there was construction, and there must be constant carnage of uniformed kids mowed down by condo dwellers.

[fenwick16]

This quote is good also:

Murphy and other residents fear the lengthy construction period would lead to decreased enrolment at St. Joseph’s school, possibly resulting in its closure.

I didn't realize that condo owners were such evil people. Mowing down kids with their cars and forcing the closure of schools.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was a wonderful quote in Allnovascotia from a resident suggesting he or she might have to attend the funerals of children struck by cars that would be present in this area because of the new development.

I wonder how it is that Sacred Heart still exists given the fact that it has a highrise right next door and three others on adjacent blocks. It's a miracle they didn't close down back when there was construction, and there must be constant carnage of uniformed kids mowed down by condo dwellers.

seriously, i mean if that was the case nothing would ever get built.

The only funeral they should be concerned about is the death of the city.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I didn't realize that condo owners were such evil people. Mowing down kids with their cars and forcing the closure of schools.

My favorite quote is this one:

"The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

How is this the fault of this development? Sounds to me it is the fault of the school and/or the yuppie parents who are committing such dastardly acts.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

My favorite quote is this one:

"The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

How is this the fault of this development? Sounds to me it is the fault of the school and/or the yuppie parents who are committing such dastardly acts.

hey, we agree on something!
LOL

[halifaxboyns]

This is typical nimby at it's best. It's the developers fault for people illegally parking on the street (before the building even exists) - god I've heard that one before. Fine, call parking enforcement.

Playground in shade? Give me a break.
And as for the parking crossing a sidewalk - I love the comments some have brought up about sacred heart - I guess that will have to be shut down (or it can be used as great context to support this). Besides, there are ways to put warning measures up for pedestrians to alert them a vehicle is coming out (like an alarm or a flashing light or both). We have them in the downtown core of Calgary all over the place and they work very nicely.

You know, i'm sure that if this is built and you go back in say five years and ask these people why they didn't support it; they will have changed their tunes.

[mcmcclassic]

I really wish that people in this city would learn that 10-11 storeys is not an excessive height for a condo building. I also agree that the illegial parking by parents is a ridiculous excuse to prohibit the construction of a new building. The north end has fallen into disrepair in my opinion and moves to re-develop it should be welcomed, not scorned.

[someone123]

I don't think it's a matter of them knowing what is or isn't a reasonable height in the city - they know that buildings of 11 storeys exist in other neighbourhoods, and in their area, but they don't want one near them so they are reaching for ridiculous excuses. Making rational arguments doesn't work when you are dealing with somebody who is being irrational, and I can't think of any other way to explain some of these comments.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think it's a matter of them knowing what is or isn't a reasonable height in the city - they know that buildings of 11 storeys exist in other neighbourhoods, and in their area, but they don't want one near them so they are reaching for ridiculous excuses. Making rational arguments doesn't work when you are dealing with somebody who is being irrational, and I can't think of any other way to explain some of these comments.

It sounds like these two communities I did a rezoning in, here in Calgary. This developer owned 5 lots which were all low density, single family houses - with a back lane. The lots were nice a segregated from the rest of the community and he'd tried 4 times before to do a tall senior's facility - the communities (which I won't name) all opposed it and had the rezoning quashed at council.

Calgary's new land use bylaw comes along with this special multi-family district that really is townhousing but in a glorified form, up to 12m in height. So he proposes to use this new zone (M-CG) and build a building which would be 2m taller than the maximum height of the single family homes around it. They go nuts, oppose it for everything from extra crime, extra traffic to the issue of renters and (this was my favorite) extra dog poop in the park nearby. I had to bite my tongue at public hearing - but it passed because policy supported it. If there is strong policy there than regardless of their issues; then there is reason (already approved by council) to support it. IN addition, there is context. There are already some taller residential near by and the Oland Brewery is pretty tall; so this is the next logical step.

Context is a big deal in inner city development here in Calgary - if you look at our land use bylaw (1P2007) - a lot of the districts (zones) have a 'C' in them; because it means contextual. That means that the location of the building in terms of the front setback and buildnig height is based on adjacent buildings and averaged with some slight move forward (towards the street) or extra height. Probably wouldn't help in this case - but certainly an interesting idea.

[gmanupnorth]

Here is my 2 cents.

My wife and I were at the meeting and it was as expected, very negative in regard to the height/size and perceived impact on the community.

I'm sure that ECL will have to make some changes to their proposal over the coming year as this process un-folds. However, HRM wants this type of development in the North End and cannot pass up the tax revenue that this project will generate.

I am looking forward to seeing this development become a reality.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by gmanupnorth

Here is my 2 cents.

My wife and I were at the meeting and it was as expected, very negative in regard to the height/size and perceived impact on the community.

I'm sure that ECL will have to make some changes to their proposal over the coming year as this process un-folds. However, HRM wants this type of development in the North End and cannot pass up the tax revenue that this project will generate.

I am looking forward to seeing this development become a reality.

It seems to me that the area you live in appears to be converting into an urban village, for the inner city. I think this is a good thing - to have a good pocket of density in that area, especially with the unique bonus of the shops at the hydrostone. I know i'm excited about this project and even though the opportunities for me to return to Halifax slim; I'd be tempted to buy a townhouse and just use it when I visit or rent it out until I come back.

[Haliguy]

Quite unbeliveable really...


Condo tower may get shorter
City, developer in talks; neighbours upset with north-end proposal
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Thu, Jul 29 - 4:53 AM
Municipal planners are working with Sobeys-owned ECL Properties Ltd. to shrink an 11-storey condominium tower proposed for north-end Halifax, says the local councillor.

The building’s height has drawn fire from residents, Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said in a recent interview.

"Planning is working with ECL now because the height of the building is causing a little havoc," Blumenthal said.

"It’s in an area that the highest building is seven (storeys). Across the street there are sixes and sevens and fives. To put an 11-storey building there sort of changes the whole area."

He wouldn’t say exactly how much he would like to see the project shrink.

"I would like to see it a little smaller. I would like to see it fit in the area."

The proposed condominium tower would be surrounded by two-storey townhouses and commercial space on the site of the former St. Joseph’s Church, which was torn down last summer. The complex, on a property bounded by Kaye, Russell and Gottingen streets, would be called St. Joseph’s Square.

Virginia Bonn of ECL Properties could not be reached for comment.

"We have been talking about (changes), but I don’t have anything on paper and I’m not really sure what they’re going to come back with," said Patricia Hughes, a planner with Halifax Regional Municipality working on the project.

"We’ve batted around a few ideas, but until I have something on paper, it’s all up in the air."

The site is zoned for institutional development and parks. For construction to go ahead, council would have to approve a zoning change.

"We don’t like these things to drag out forever, so we are hoping to move forward one way or another in the near future," Hughes said Wednesday.

The developer has estimated that construction would take five years, create 340 jobs and bring in $2.5 million in taxes.

But Alec McCleave, who lives nearby, is opposed to the project, no matter what the height.

"My concern is this is just the thin edge, so to speak," McCleave said. "There’s going to be more and more highrise development in this area and I’m not too excited about this.

"This is a nice, residential community and suddenly it’s being overrun with apartment buildings. . . . It’s just compounding a density problem. I think this area’s going to end up like Vancouver the way things are going right now. Residents should stand up and say, ‘No, we don’t want the development.’ "

The empty lot, which neighbours two schools, would make an ideal spot for a park, he said.

"They’d get some public recognition and the residents would be happy," McCleave said.

"It’s time for Sobeys to step forward. They’ve got a community responsibility."

( clambie@herald.ca)

‘It’s in an area that the highest building is seven (storeys). Across the street there are sixes and sevens and fives. To put an 11-storey building there sort of changes the whole area.’

Halifax North End councillor

Jerry Blumenthal

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Quite unbeliveable really...


Condo tower may get shorter
City, developer in talks; neighbours upset with north-end proposal
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Thu, Jul 29 - 4:53 AM
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But Alec McCleave, who lives nearby, is opposed to the project, no matter what the height.

"My concern is this is just the thin edge, so to speak," McCleave said. "There’s going to be more and more highrise development in this area and I’m not too excited about this.

"This is a nice, residential community and suddenly it’s being overrun with apartment buildings. . . . It’s just compounding a density problem. I think this area’s going to end up like Vancouver the way things are going right now. Residents should stand up and say, ‘No, we don’t want the development.’ "

The empty lot, which neighbours two schools, would make an ideal spot for a park, he said.
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So what is this person's opinion on where development should go - the suburbs, Ontario, Alberta ... ? He has his home so others should now move elsewhere. Again, as many have stated previously - he knew that he was living it a city, does he favour economic stagnation or increased property taxes by servicing ever expanding suburbs?

I understand that Alex McCleave isn't ready to accept the changing of his neighbourhood. But if Halifax continues to grow then this will happen more and more.