Birmingham Development News

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Tourian

The interchange were talking a out is near Fultondale, or are you saying you went over Hoover as well?

Tourian, we were high enough after only 20 minutes that I could see the entire metro. It was only around 8:20am BHM time, but it was a clear and sunny morning. The view was spectacular - just wish I had thought to have my camera out and ready.

By the time I thought about it, we were already too far west...

[SpawnOfVulcan]

From The Birmingham Biz Journal: ALDOT plans could put BJCC future in jeopardy

The proposed plan to work on Interstate 20/59 in downtown near the Birmingham Jefferson Convention Complex could throw a kink in the multipurpose facility's future plans.

AL.com reports that the $300 million Alabama Department of Transportation project to replace the downtown viaduct could begin next year, and includes a plan to increase the use of 11th Avenue North for major traffic.

This could end up hurting BJCC's expansion plans, including the possibility of a domed stadium facility.

The ALDOT plan could also mean loss of parking underneath the interstate near the facility and the removal of 9th Avenue North, which the BJCC uses extensively for operations.

The BJCC board voted recently to take bids for a consultant to help advise on the issue, as well as to help communications between the BJCC and ALDOT.

Just another reason why ALDOT needs to scrap this plan and sink the viaduct... Gah, everything ALDOT is doing lately is just stupid...

[OCA REP]

This could end up hurting BJCC's expansion plans, including the possibility of a domed stadium facility.

The domed stadium is, and should remain, dead...

The BJCC board voted recently to take bids for a consultant to help advise on the issue, as well as to help communications between the BJCC and ALDOT.

Great... waste some more money, why don't you!

[SpawnOfVulcan]

The dome aside, the fact that the BJCC is reacting to ALDOT's plan is evidence that ALDOT didn't even take into serious consideration the BJCC's interests. Just another reason why the state should take another look at this plan that ALDOT only adopted because it's afraid to approach lawmakers to tell them to fix the funding problem.

EDIT: This is the kind of stuff I'm being trained to do. You don't make the effing plan THEN seek public opinion; you gather the public's opinion, THEN you make the plan.

[kingchef]

i noticed the several references to hiring a consulting firm to study the alleged problems concerning the convention center and the general area of that portion of the city. this seems to be very much like some of the really wasteful things memphis has done, as programs, large civic projects, and the like have come along. hire a consulting firm is the first thing out of some of our civic leaders mouths'. i thought that city engineers and local planning boards were paid by most major cities, in order to deal w/ growth and development issues. w/ memphis, in some cases, a project might even run into having two or three firms, before the completion of the project. very rarely will the public know what the firm contributed, if anything, the projected amount vs. actual expenditure, and the real fruitfulness of the recommendations, particularly, when the city fails to act on the project, and it ends up changing altogether or the city dismisses the expensive report of "have to's". we have several of these very projects working at this very time.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by kingchef

i noticed the several references to hiring a consulting firm to study the alleged problems concerning the convention center and the general area of that portion of the city. this seems to be very much like some of the really wasteful things memphis has done, as programs, large civic projects, and the like have come along. hire a consulting firm is the first thing out of some of our civic leader's mouths. i thought that city engineers and local planning boards were paid by most major cities, in order to deal w/ growth and development issues. w/ memphis, in some cases, a project might even run into having two or three firms, before the completion of the project. very rarely will the public know what the firm contributed, if anything, the projected amount vs. actual expenditure, and the real fruitfulness of the recommendations, particularly, when the city fails to act on the project, and it ends up changing altogether or the city dismisses the expensive report of "have to's". we have several of these very projects working at this very time.

I assume you're speaking about the disorganization of "the dome" project"? If so, I agree; that project is all too overly ambitious and is much deserving of alternative consideration.

I would much prefer that the city consider the construction of a very nice arena and drop the idea of any kind of domed stadium. The fad of domed stadiums is fading, as is proven by the City of Atlanta's pursuit of an open air stadium. If the city wants to have a stadium worthy of envy, it needs to overhaul Legion Field (preserve historical significance).

All that being said, if ALDOT does not sink 20/59, there will forever be a barrier between the CBD and the BJCC. That's something which the metro area cannot affort; if ALDOT is smart, it will at least open its eyes and ears to the possibility of sinking the viaduct.

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by quattordici

if ALDOT is smart, it will at least open its eyes and ears to the possibility of sinking the viaduct.

You're asking a lot!

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by OCA REP

You're asking a lot!

Yes, I know this.

[*BRAVO*]

Originally Posted by kingchef

i noticed the several references to hiring a consulting firm to study the alleged problems concerning the convention center and the general area of that portion of the city. this seems to be very much like some of the really wasteful things memphis has done, as programs, large civic projects, and the like have come along. hire a consulting firm is the first thing out of some of our civic leader's mouths. i thought that city engineers and local planning boards were paid by most major cities, in order to deal w/ growth and development issues. w/ memphis, in some cases, a project might even run into having two or three firms, before the completion of the project. very rarely will the public know what the firm contributed, if anything, the projected amount vs. actual expenditure, and the real fruitfulness of the recommendations, particularly, when the city fails to act on the project, and it ends up changing altogether or the city dismisses the expensive report of "have to's". we have several of these very projects working at this very time.

The BJCC is an entity separate from the city and the county. Both entities contribute $$$ and have Board representation to the BJCC but it essentially stands alone. Therefore, city engineers and local planning boards are not on the BJCC payroll. I believe that is why we so often "hear" of outside consultants.

I can understand why the BJCC is concerned. It seems the Aldont plan essentially directs all inbound/outbound downtown traffic along 11th Avenue North to 22nd or 19th Street. Can you imagine the chaos created by the 5pm outbound traffic while inbound concert, circus or convention traffic is searching for parking. That would be a mess. Also, Aldont is taking away parking under the interstate AND all of 9th Avenue N.
9th Avenue is a major thoroughfare for the BJCC for patrons AND truck traffic. Currently, the North and South Exhibit loading docks are on 9th. The loading dock for the arena is on 9th. Logistically speaking, the Aldont plan is creating a major hardship for the BJCC as it exists.

[B'ham Bound]

ALDOT's plan, as it stands, would deal a major blow to Birmingham, proper and metro. A grassroots group is coming together to, hopefully, demand a better plan that aligns with Birmingham's desire to create a walkable and pedestrian friendly city center. Whether that's accomplished with a sunken interstate or one that has been rerouted to the north, the current plan is untenable and harmful.

Petition and Facebook Page:

http://rethink2059.com

https://www.facebook.com/Rethink2059

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by B'ham Bound

ALDOT's plan, as it stands, would deal a major blow to Birmingham, proper and metro. A grassroots group is coming together to, hopefully, demand a better plan that aligns with Birmingham's desire to create a walkable and pedestrian friendly city center. Whether that's accomplished with a sunken interstate or one that has been rerouted to the north, the current plan is untenable and harmful.

Petition and Facebook Page:

http://rethink2059.com

https://www.facebook.com/Rethink2059

THANX B'ham Bound, despite your poor choice in avatar imagery!!!!

[B'ham Bound]

Originally Posted by quattordici

THANX B'ham Bound, despite your poor choice in avatar imagery!!!!

Ha! It's late. Hard for me to whip up a snappy comeback. Well done.

War Damn.

[kingchef]

morris ave. doesn't have any major under interstate parking, right? how is that area doing as an entertainment area? to me, belle-w bar, relay club, and i seem to remember a railroad dining car, where we ate once. those things have moved, but that street should be a killer entertainment development zone, at least the entrance down to that area that sort of became a no-man's land.

i moved away about 3 years ago, but i do really love b'ham, and memphis, in some ways reminds me of the 'ham. one thing that i always thought was so pretty is the legion field risers. love the dark forest green. one thing i don't like about downtown has to do w/ the one way streets, particularly in the core. i was a communicant of the advent cathedral, and finding parking was always a headache, curb parking???, the free sunday parking garage not big enough. so, would it be better to go back to two-way lanes in that area? w/ the growth of uab and the traffic problems that area had at the time i lived in the area, i would think, now that the children's hospital is finished and so much of the other things, i would think 21st, university, and those off streets going south to southwest, especially in getting up to 5 points, the highlands, etc. of course, i know nothing about sports, w/ the exception of the obvious, but i would think the city would want to infill the area back towards downtown. i always thought some nice highrises should be scattered towards I-65 south, which seems to be a barrier to some of those areas. i know that is a good deal of distance, but b'ham could use that area to create a midtown feel, imo. bjcc, lloyd auditorium, and other tie-in civic and entertainment complexes would work. i have to admit that i don't know what would work best for downtown, when it comes to the sunken idea, as opposed to the current state. i know that i always hate driving on the north side of the core---either way. up in the air, as the interstate is now, the speed at which that traffic moves, buildings that almost make me feel that i'm going to scrape their sides, and the challenge of getting in the downtown lane, as opposed to continuing around to red mountain expressway.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by kingchef

morris ave. doesn't have any major under interstate parking, right? how is that area doing as an entertainment area? to me, belle-w bar, relay club, and i seem to remember a railroad dining car, where we ate once. those things have moved, but that street should be a killer entertainment development zone, at least the entrance down to that area that sort of became a no-man's land.

i moved away about 3 years ago, but i do really love b'ham, and memphis, in some ways reminds me of the 'ham. one thing that i always thought was so pretty is the legion field risers. love the dark forest green. one thing i don't like about downtown has to do w/ the one way streets, particularly in the core. i was a communicant of the advent cathedral, and finding parking was always a headache, curb parking???, the free sunday parking garage not big enough. so, would it be better to go back to two-way lanes in that area? w/ the growth of uab and the traffic problems that area had at the time i lived in the area, i would think, now that the children's hospital is finished and so much of the other things, i would think 21st, university, and those off streets going south to southwest, especially in getting up to 5 points, the highlands, etc. of course, i know nothing about sports, w/ the exception of the obvious, but i would think the city would want to infill the area back towards downtown. i always thought some nice highrises should be scattered towards I-65 south, which seems to be a barrier to some of those areas. i know that is a good deal of distance, but b'ham could use that area to create a midtown feel, imo. bjcc, lloyd auditorium, and other tie-in civic and entertainment complexes would work. i have to admit that i don't know what would work best for downtown, when it comes to the sunken idea, as opposed to the current state. i know that i always hate driving on the north side of the core---either way. up in the air, as the interstate is now, the speed at which that traffic moves, buildings that almost make me feel that i'm going to scrape their sides, and the challenge of getting in the downtown lane, as opposed to continuing around to red mountain expressway.

I don't know much about the area around Morris Ave (other than it's named after one of my ancestors, who was one of the co-founders of Bham )

I agree that Morris Ave could become a great entertainment destination. The areas east of where the transit hub will be constructed could likely be cut off from vehicle traffic and made pedestrian only with out causing too much disrupt to downtown traffic. As for the one way streets, I completely agree; I'm only guessing, but I'd think that many of the roads in downtown were converted from 2 way to 1 way back in the post WWII era as a way to speed people through downtown instead of into it. That's effectively what they do; if you hit the lights just right, you can zip on through.

As for the I-20/59 viaduct, the problem with the stretch between the interchange with the expressway and the junction becomes really hectic with all of the necessary merging that takes place. In many cases, you have to merge over at least two to three lanes to get where you're going (with less than the distance of a mile to do so; on a stretch of interstate which is over-capacity) if you don't intend to remain on 20/59 outside of downtown. ALDOT wants to replace the current elevated deck while also redesigning the interchanges with the junction and the expressway. They have mostly decided to do this because it's much cheaper than the cost of sinking the viaduct (would cost upwards of $500 to $750 million). Their plan also wrecks any potential BJCC expansion potential since the redesign would create a thoroughfare which divides in half the total amount of land that the BJCC owns. Advocates of sinking the viaduct claim that it will rid the northside of downtown of the barrier which divides the BJCC from the central business district; pretty much places the BJCC on an island in the middle of a large city....

That's it in a nutshell!!!!!! (I apologize for grammatical errors, I don't feel like proofreading)

[B'ham Bound]

Minor correction. ALDOT would leave the interchanges as is. Well, they would actually add more merging lanes to them, making Malfunction Junction and the Expressway interchange even worse. Oh, and there is a plan on the book (has been since 2004, I believe) to convert most (if not all) of the one ways back into two way streets. Birmingham started dragging their feet when they saw the price tag (about $1 million per interchange). If the plan gains traction again, 2nd Ave would be one of the first streets to undergo the conversion.

[B'ham Bound]

Regarding the new, I-20/59, Birmingham has sought to emulate what Cincinnati did with Fort Washington Way. Essentially the same problem that covers the same distance. It's a lowered interstate that has an access road on both sides. This serves as a feeder system and eliminates the need to have ramps placed in the middle of the core. Instead, they would be relocated near the interchanges and help disperse traffic in a much more efficient way thanks to the grid pattern of downtown's streets. On a side note, Dallas is really pushing forward on some innovative interstate plans, capping the Woodall Rogers Freeway and calling for the removal of the 345.

http://www.klydewarrenpark.org/

http://www.anewdallas.com/index.html

[*BRAVO*]

Originally Posted by B'ham Bound

Regarding the new, I-20/59, Birmingham has sought to emulate what Cincinnati did with Fort Washington Way. Essentially the same problem that covers the same distance. It's a lowered interstate that has an access road on both sides. This serves as a feeder system and eliminates the need to have ramps placed in the middle of the core. Instead, they would be relocated near the interchanges and help disperse traffic in a much more efficient way thanks to the grid pattern of downtown's streets. On a side note, Dallas is really pushing forward on some innovative interstate plans, capping the Woodall Rogers Freeway and calling for the removal of the 345.

http://www.klydewarrenpark.org/

http://www.anewdallas.com/index.html

I would like to see a "cut and cap" option put on the table. I-20/59 would be redirected along I-459. The viaduct would come down entirely and the remaining interstate would server as a feeder into downtown. I believe the grid could handle it. If not, commuters be damned.

[*BRAVO*]

http://www.anewdallas.com/index.html

That is a snazzy website. I like it.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by B'ham Bound

Minor correction. ALDOT would leave the interchanges as is. Well, they would actually add more merging lanes to them, making Malfunction Junction and the Expressway interchange even worse. Oh, and there is a plan on the book (has been since 2004, I believe) to convert most (if not all) of the one ways back into two way streets. Birmingham started dragging their feet when they saw the price tag (about $1 million per interchange). If the plan gains traction again, 2nd Ave would be one of the first streets to undergo the conversion.

Judging, by the map that ALDOT made in Paint, the interchanges would be modified to an extent. They wouldn't be FUNDAMENTALY altered, but some of the bridge would be removed and others would be added.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Here's what ALDOT is proposing:


From geekalabama.com

Blue roadways are new.
Yellow are new bridges.
Red ones would be removed.
Violet ones remain.

Again, no, the interchanges would not be fundamentally altered, but they would still see some functional tweaks.